It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Bees Appear Able to Comprehend the Concept of Zero

page: 1
13
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 7 2018 @ 09:22 PM
link   
Article


Honeybees can identify a piece of paper with zero dots as “less than” a paper with a few dots. Such a feat puts the insects in a select group—including the African grey parrot, nonhuman primates, and preschool children—that can understand the concept of zero, researchers report June 7 in Science.

In past studies, researchers have shown that bees can count up to five, but whether the insects could grasp more-complex ideas, such as addition or nothingness, has been unclear. In the latest study, Avarguès-Weber and her colleagues tested the bees’ ability to comprehend the absence of a stimulus by first training the insects to consistently choose sheets of paper either with fewer or more dots by landing on a tiny platform near the paper with the dots. If the bees chose correctly, they were rewarded with a sugary drink.






The team then tested the bees’ ability to distinguish a blank piece of paper, or what the researchers call an empty set, from a sheet with one dot and found the insects chose correctly about 63 percent of the time. The behavior reveals “an understanding that an empty set is lower than one, which is challenging for some other animals,” the researchers write in the paper.

"Bees have minibrains compared with human brains—fewer than a million neurons compared with our 86 billion—yet they can understand the concept of an empty set.”

Nieder suggests honeybees, similar to humans, may have developed this ability to comprehend the absence of something as a survival advantage, to help with foraging, avoiding predation, and interacting with other bees of the same species. The absence of food or a mate is important to understand, he says.

Avarguès-Weber and her colleagues argue, however, that the bees were always rewarded when shown dots. “In the test with zero (white paper) versus an image with a few dots, the bees chose the white picture without any previous experience with such stimulus. A choice based exclusively on learning would consist in choosing an image similar to the rewarded ones, ones presenting dots,” she says.



Wasn't sure if this was the right place but it seemed like the best fit. I've heard of studies showing bees can count before but this is kind of neat if the conclusions are correct. The concept of zero is a strange thing. It's something we all take for granted nowadays but the concept of what we know as zero wasn't always a thing.

The Origin of Zero

edit on 7/6/2018 by dug88 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 7 2018 @ 09:51 PM
link   
Bees have to process their visual field to identify which areas have flowers and which don't. They do seem to have a preference for the largest and highest flowers and going round a flower bed in a loop.



posted on Jun, 26 2018 @ 12:01 PM
link   
i was graverobbing an urn shaped like a book from a masonic cemetery and stashing across the river from the pyramid and bees started stinging me so i threatened them. got they're time issues straight though.

edit on 26-6-2018 by i77oomiknotti because: typo



posted on Aug, 26 2018 @ 10:23 PM
link   
Just came across this, I had it in my subscriptions since it was first posted.
It truly amazes at the levels of intelligence that can be displayed by animals.....but insects, WOW!!!



posted on Aug, 26 2018 @ 10:26 PM
link   
a reply to: i77oomiknotti

Ketamine is a hell of drug mate. LoL

Just say no!



posted on Aug, 26 2018 @ 10:31 PM
link   
a reply to: dug88

Nature might start with the Bees next should humanity keep circling the drain in the manner we are doing these days.

That's if there is any left, as last i herd quite a few of the little critters were dropping like flies.



posted on Aug, 26 2018 @ 10:33 PM
link   
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

It is amazing, along with bee's I think ants are pretty interesting, the colony is like a big neural network.



posted on Aug, 26 2018 @ 10:54 PM
link   
Hmm... But are the bees really understanding the concept of zero?

I would imagine their "understanding" (because it is not clear to what degree a bee is an experiencing being, and to what degree they resemble a computer-like existence) could be something more along the lines of, "get to where the most flowers are / get to where the most dots are". In a case like this, a blank sheet gets rejected by this principle every time, but that doesn't indicate they understood it was empty, rather than just "not the most".

Put another way, making a choice between one and none implies to a human that there must be a number less than 1, because we have pretty sophisticated logic as far as animals go, but I am not sure bees make a leap like this, in any way other than implicitly.

Suppose you feed a lizard some fruit every day. Then one day you give it an empty food bowl. The Lizard recognizes something is missing here. But we wouldn't say the lizard recognizes the concept of zero because it recognizes the absence of something as significant. I think that is the error being committed here... most animals seem equipped to understand the concept of the absence of something- we don't normally extend that to say they have knowledge of non-trivial mathematical concepts.



posted on Aug, 27 2018 @ 05:03 AM
link   
Bees Understand Concept of Zero, Reject Abysmal New Smashing Pumpkins Song to Play Mellon Collie For The Literal Millionth Time

This all seems right and natural to me



posted on Aug, 27 2018 @ 05:24 AM
link   
a reply to: dug88

Seems to me they just trained a bee to land on the paper without the dot. Doesn't mean the bee understands the concept of zero at all. It just knows that when it landed on the one with the dot it didn't get anything. wonder how much money this study managed to bilk from real science and research. Just think this was done instead of something beneficial to society.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:08 PM
link   
a reply to: vonclod

I've been working on seperating an individual ant from the colony, any thoughts?



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:12 PM
link   
a reply to: i77oomiknotti

It will die, it's entire existence and function is based on being part of the network/colony.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:18 PM
link   
a reply to: dragonridr

Yeah that happens a lot. We've known bees have a concept of zero ever since quetzalcoatl stuffed a conch shell full of 'em to get out of the land of smoke and mirrors.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:20 PM
link   
a reply to: vonclod

I heard of a parasite that makes an ant go nuts and climb to the top of a blade of grass to get eaten by a grazing animal when it's time for it to transfer hosts.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: i77oomiknotti
a reply to: Scrutinizing

I don't have time for all that, I'm mainly focused on evergreen trees, pretty sure they're vampires.


This could be, as, in addition, I'd heartily agree that bees also find division by zero meaningless. You would have to prove to me, though, that bumblebees have discovered where Pi begins to repeat, regardless the acumen of the alien variety for differential equations. By the way, has anybody else heard that Africanized bees are Muslims? That's the buzz.
edit on 1-9-2018 by Scrutinizing because: The quote was smote.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Scrutinizing

I don't have time for all that, I'm mainly focused on evergreen trees, pretty sure they're vampires.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:34 PM
link   
a reply to: i77oomiknotti

I have heard of it too, turns them into zombies..trippy stuff, nature is very inventive.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 01:36 PM
link   
a reply to: Scrutinizing

if you use pi and phi you'll overlap and from there lever and pulley maybe not separate from a screw.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 02:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: i77oomiknotti
a reply to: Scrutinizing

I don't have time for all that, I'm mainly focused on evergreen trees, pretty sure they're vampires.


You know, come to think of it, evergreens are a pain in the neck. Squirrels will tell you they're plain nuts! Though I don't wish to derail anything and haven't heard where the bees stand, with respect to evergreens. If vampires, as you state, you would think bees would have stinging criticism, if they can distinguish between zero and a tree, that is. Somebody needs to run a dot versus vampire evergreen on a page test, though neither of us seem to have the time.
edit on 1-9-2018 by Scrutinizing because: The quote was smote.



posted on Sep, 1 2018 @ 02:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: i77oomiknotti
a reply to: Scrutinizing

if you use pi and phi you'll overlap and from there lever and pulley maybe not separate from a screw.


Good to hear that something around here doesn't have a screw loose!



new topics

top topics



 
13
<<   2 >>

log in

join