Finally, scientists have found intriguing organic molecules on Mars

science.sciencemag.org...

arstechnica.com...

After more than four decades of searching for organic molecules on the surface of Mars, scientists have conclusively found them in mudstones on the lower slopes of Mount Sharp. A variety of organic compounds were discovered by NASA's Curiosity rover, which heated the Martian rocks to 500° Celsius to release the chemicals.

The finding is significant—for life to have ever existed on Mars there would almost certainly need to be organic molecules to get it started; they're the basic building blocks of life as we know it. And if life did get started, it would have left organic molecules behind. However the confirmation of organics on Mars raises more questions than it answers. Based upon the information scientists have gleaned so far, they cannot determine whether these organics were produced by life, delivered to the surface of Mars by meteorites, or are the byproduct of geological processes on Mars.

In 2014, scientists reported the first detection of chlorinated hydrocarbons. While this was interesting, it was a pretty bland set of organic molecules, and the researchers were unable to rule out contamination left over from the rover's time on Earth.

And so Curiosity drove on to the base of Mount Sharp and sampled some of the mudstones (a rock that formed from muds and clays) found there. Surely, if organic molecules existed on Mars, the scientists thought, they would be here. Everything else told them that the lake environment in which the mudstones formed 3 billion years ago would have been a likely place for life to exist.

To obtain a sample, Curiosity's rover drills into a rock and delivers a fine powder to the Sample Analysis at Mars (SAM) suite of instruments. The powder essentially falls into a cup akin to a small thimble, where it is placed into a small oven and heated to temperatures of 500ºC, and above. As the sample heats up, gases come off and are channeled into a tube where they are sniffed by a mass spectrometer. The rest of this gas is sent into a long, skinny tube that separates each molecule.

Scientists have conclusively found thiophenic, aromatic, and aliphatic organic compounds on Mars.

Results from the paper:

Diverse pyrolysis products, including thiophenic, aromatic, and aliphatic compounds released at high temperatures (500° to 820°C), were directly detected by evolved gas analysis. Thiophenes were also observed by gas chromatography–mass spectrometry

Their presence suggests that sulfurization aided organic matter preservation. At least 50 nanomoles of organic carbon persists, probably as macromolecules containing 5% carbon as organic sulfur molecules.

This is pretty cool. A few years ago they found some basic organic molecules.

old ATS thread about it here

This year they've found some.more complex organic molecules. Still not enough information yet to say whether they came from life or geological processes but more information is always cool...I still think sending humans to Mars is a bad idea though.

a reply to: dug88

Nice of them to tell us a tiny fraction of what they have known for years...my opinion.

It's a little more exciting than I thought it would be.

So, they found organic molecules in the mudstone of the dry lake bed. And they have more information about Mar's Methane levels, and I understand they've noticed some kind of periodicity with respect to its concentration. More indicators of past life on the red planet. Maybe even present life.

It could also have been a comet or asteroid, possibly the size of the Chicxulub impactor, carrying massive amounts of organic molecules to the surface. Or maybe both.

And it's also possible that standard geological processes could have created them. Ultimately they're going to need more precise data and analysis about the organic compounds to create a better theory.

[Begin Conspiracy]
From a conspiracy perspective, I find it interesting that they were able to make this discovery a few weeks after the drilling mechanism was repaired, after it had been broken for 18 months. The PTB are realling drawing this out; keeping the sheeple in the dark as long as possible. There are some tough questions that will asked once the full story is known.
[End Conspiracy]

-dex

S&F

..sorry, but (yawn...)

The question I have is, are there organic molecules that can ONLY be produced by life and NOT by any other means? If so, THAT is what they should be searching for in these samples now. If found that would make it definitive that life was/is on Mars.

Mars evolved past organic life eons agaio .
Having reached the pinical of evolution Artificial life .

This life finding the rovers so simple have reprogrammed them soon Curiosity will be coming home to look for its maker .
Earth has a real problem as Spock has died and krik is a dork so who will save us now ???

The bug hunt continues. How about something good for a change?

a reply to: dug88

Does anyone else have the feeling they're holding back? I couldn't help but notice how hard they tried to avoid the topic of past life during that press conference. Almost as if they're sticking to a strict step-by-step agenda (and have been doing so over the past few years).

1. You can't have life without water
2. You can't have life without clays and minerals
3. You can't have life without organic molecules
4. You can't have life without (insert prerequisite here)
...

I see a pattern emerging. Are they just being "scientific" or is there more to it? IMO this dripfeeding is a bit suspicious. This being ATS, I just thought someone needed to point this out.

originally posted by: jeep3r
a reply to: dug88

Does anyone else have the feeling they're holding back? I couldn't help but notice how hard they tried to avoid the topic of past life during that press conference. Almost as if they're sticking to a strict step-by-step agenda (and have been doing so over the past few years).

1. You can't have life without water
2. You can't have life without clays and minerals
3. You can't have life without organic molecules
4. You can't have life without (insert prerequisite here)
...

I see a pattern emerging. Are they just being "scientific" or is there more to it? IMO this dripfeeding is a bit suspicious. This being ATS, I just thought someone needed to point this out.

Agree.

5. You can't have life until the Aliens give the government permission to disclose that.

What's curious is how NASA's electronics and metals and soft materials on the Rover manage to withstand -130°C or have an oven to heat samples to 800°C without a massive heat exchanger-...

originally posted by: jeep3r
a reply to: dug88

Does anyone else have the feeling they're holding back? I couldn't help but notice how hard they tried to avoid the topic of past life during that press conference. Almost as if they're sticking to a strict step-by-step agenda (and have been doing so over the past few years).

1. You can't have life without water
2. You can't have life without clays and minerals
3. You can't have life without organic molecules
4. You can't have life without (insert prerequisite here)
...

I see a pattern emerging. Are they just being "scientific" or is there more to it? IMO this dripfeeding is a bit suspicious. This being ATS, I just thought someone needed to point this out.

There's that...but on the other hand...would you wanna be that guy that says there's life on Mars only to be proved wrong? I can understand why you'd be careful when talking about this stuff. The media has a hard enough time keeping reporting on science accurate as it is. I could see them having a field day if someone even made the slightest hint that it could be possibly life. I'm actually fairly surprised at the lack of 'found life on Mars' stories about this. I remember it got pretty sensationalized last time.

Well, it's working. Drip, drip, drip, drip.......

I'm getting seriously bored with it all. I'm at that stage "they" want me to be. Lol.

I'll be like "life on Mars? Yeah whatever...." soon.

Seriously people. The planet cannot be sterile? Surely that's impossible? The amount of crap that has bombarded that planet over the years must have started something.

I can see this is gonna drive me nuts until I just give up

The Martian meteorites that we possess, have already shown that Mars has organic material and most likely bacterium, in my opinion. Why can't they just come out and say it, with what they know now.

This is strange
Article dated December 17, 2014

Curiosity has discovered organic matter on Mars

Rerun ? Enhanced Edition ? Director's Cut ?

originally posted by: Gothmog
This is strange
Article dated December 17, 2014

Curiosity has discovered organic matter on Mars

Rerun ? Enhanced Edition ? Director's Cut ?

In 2014, scientists reported the first detection of chlorinated hydrocarbons. While this was interesting, it was a pretty bland set of organic molecules, and the researchers were unable to rule out contamination left over from the rover's time on Earth. 

You should probably try reading the op....

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Gothmog
This is strange
Article dated December 17, 2014

Curiosity has discovered organic matter on Mars

Rerun ? Enhanced Edition ? Director's Cut ?

In 2014, scientists reported the first detection of chlorinated hydrocarbons. While this was interesting, it was a pretty bland set of organic molecules, and the researchers were unable to rule out contamination left over from the rover's time on Earth. 

You should probably try reading the op....

Yes , I did.
And then reread .
Because this was supposed to be a GREAT ANNOUNCEMENT from NASA
But , thanks to the reread that you prompted , I now can classify this new announcement
It is the ENHANCED EDITION
Waited over 3 years for that ?
Done,
Next

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: dug88

originally posted by: Gothmog
This is strange
Article dated December 17, 2014

Curiosity has discovered organic matter on Mars

Rerun ? Enhanced Edition ? Director's Cut ?

In 2014, scientists reported the first detection of chlorinated hydrocarbons. While this was interesting, it was a pretty bland set of organic molecules, and the researchers were unable to rule out contamination left over from the rover's time on Earth. 

You should probably try reading the op....

Yes , I did.
And then reread .
Because this was supposed to be a GREAT ANNOUNCEMENT from NASA
But , thanks to the reread that you prompted , I now can classify this new announcement
It is the ENHANCED EDITION
Waited over 3 years for that ?
Done,
Next

Yup that's science for ya....slow and boring. That whole accumulation of knowledge over time thing. I guess this is why the media tends to hype up most science...unless it's some huge groundbreaking discovery people's reactions are Meh.....unfortunately this is how the majority of science actually works.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
The question I have is, are there organic molecules that can ONLY be produced by life and NOT by any other means? If so, THAT is what they should be searching for in these samples now. If found that would make it definitive that life was/is on Mars.

Thiophenes are a carbon ring with a sulphur atom
en.wikipedia.org...

Aliphates are alkane, alkene and other carbon ring based molecules:
en.wikipedia.org...

The ambiguity is that these are the simpler molecules that could be created by both natural and organic processes. If it were organic, then it would mean that there was some kind of life on Mars that decomposed millions of years ago. But there were no amino acid chains found. Those require Nitrogen.

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Krakatoa
The question I have is, are there organic molecules that can ONLY be produced by life and NOT by any other means? If so, THAT is what they should be searching for in these samples now. If found that would make it definitive that life was/is on Mars.

Thiophenes are a carbon ring with a sulphur atom
en.wikipedia.org...

Aliphates are alkane, alkene and other carbon ring based molecules:
en.wikipedia.org...

The ambiguity is that these are the simpler molecules that could be created by both natural and organic processes. If it were organic, then it would mean that there was some kind of life on Mars that decomposed millions of years ago. But there were no amino acid chains found. Those require Nitrogen.

But that does not answer my question does it? Both of those, as you stated, can be created by either process.

"heated to temperatures of 500ºC"
Nop! nothing alive at all! well not after 500ºC.

I can Not belive that they have NO way
to test to see if some think is alive NOW!

Unless they DONT want to find it!
or are just lying to us! like always.