How people respond to 9/11 evidence counter to the official conspiracy theory

a reply to: JBurns

The towers did not neatly collapse in their own footprints if the linked to thread is true.

Posted by The Doc

www.internationalskeptics.com...

Reload this Page How Many Buildings Were Destroyed by the 9/11 Attacks?

Quote:
en.wikipedia.org...
The entire WTC complex was destroyed on September 11, 2001, and many of the surrounding buildings were also either damaged or destroyed as the towers fell. 5 WTC suffered a large fire and a partial collapse of its steel structure.
Other buildings destroyed include St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, Marriott World Trade Center (Marriott Hotel 3 WTC), South Plaza (4 WTC), and U.S. Customs (6 WTC). The World Financial Center buildings, 90 West Street, and 130 Cedar Street suffered fires. The Deutsche Bank Building, Verizon, and World Financial Center 3 suffered impact damage from the towers' collapse, as did 90 West Street. One Liberty Plaza survived structurally intact but sustained surface damage including shattered windows. 30 West Broadway was damaged by the collapse of 7 WTC. The Deutsche Bank Building, known through images of it being covered in a large black 'shroud' after September 11 to cover the building's damage, is currently being deconstructed[50] because of water, mold, and other severe damage caused by the neighboring towers' collapse.

a reply to: kix

5)The fact that GWB did not go into a secure area after being told they were being attacked and stayed in the school is for me the biggest evidence it was all part of a government sponsored attack.

How would they know the route to the safe area was safe without checking and verifying first? Only so many places Air Force One and the helicopters can take off and land at? Then the routes to get to air force one or to a helicopter?

a reply to: JBurns

Only 3 steel skyscrapers have ever collapsed due to structural fires... all 3 were in NYC on 9/11/01.

Must have missed this one ……..

www.youtube.com...

and this one

www.youtube.com...

and this

www.youtube.com...

5)The fact that GWB did not go into a secure area after being told they were being attacked and stayed in the school is for me the biggest evidence it was all part of a government sponsored attack.

a reply to: kix

What secure area was that ?

Bush went Barksdale Air base in Louisiana then on the Offut Airbase in Omaha Nebraska , hose of Strategic Air Command

This was all part of the Continuity of Government (COG) designed during the Cold War where idea was to get away from coast into interior of US Its called strategic depth

Also by keeping in flight made it more difficult to target

a reply to: kix

5)The fact that GWB did not go into a secure area after being told they were being attacked and stayed in the school is for me the biggest evidence it was all part of a government sponsored attack.

If you were looking to crash a plane into POTUS, how high up the list would random schools be?

This thread has devolved into mush.
It is no longer about one topic, just a random mix of conspiracy ideas.
The mods should lock it where it is.

a reply to: firerescue

At least they have very large fires and rubble piles at the base when they collapsed! Not just a few floors.

originally posted by: myss427
a reply to: firerescue

At least they have very large fires and rubble piles at the base when they collapsed! Not just a few floors.

Still intrepidly posting the same debunked conspiracists talking point like its the first time every time? By only using innuendo and no cited facts? And ignoring your claims has been repeatedly addressed with actual facts?

archive.is...

Is Much of the World Trade Center Missing?

Some conspiracy theorists claim that large amounts of the buildings were unaccounted for by the size of the rubble pile. Since only 12% of the building volume was solid, the towers should collapse into a pile 12% of the original height of the building, or just about 50 meters high. Since 18 meters of that pile would be filling the basement, the above-ground portion would be 32 meters high.

The actual rubble pile reached the fifth story of adjacent buildings, so well outside the footprint of the tower the pile was five stories, or about 15 meters high. The pile would have been roughly conical, and would have included a lot of void space, increasing its height and offsetting the larger diameter of the pile. Overall the rubble pile is what you'd expect.

So it simply isn't true that the rubble pile is only a small percentage of what would be expected. Some conspiracy sites allege that the rubble pile is only 5% of what would be expected. Others use a figure of 33% as the height of a rubble pile relative to the original building and then argue that the pile should have been 140 or so meters high. But when Controlled Demolition Inc. (www.controlled-demolition.com...) dropped a 23-story, 439-foot (134 m) building in Detroit in 1997, they ended up with a pile averaging 35 feet high (11 m) and a maximum of 60 feet (18 m) high. The rubble pile was an average of 8% of the height of the original building and a maximum of 14%. Scaling that up to the World Trade Center, we get heights of 33 to 58 meters. In other words, the rubble pile at the World Trade Center is totally in line with other large building collapses. 33% may work for a small building a few stories high, but a large building will compress the debris pile a lot more and also fill void spaces more effectively with pulverized debris.

a reply to: myss427

Some more facts just for you

911encyclopedia.com...

The last debris was processed on July 26, 2002, day 321 of the project. At the close of the Staten Island Landfill mission:
• 1,462,000 tons of debris had been received and processed
• 35,000 tons of steel had been removed (165,000 tons were removed directly at Ground Zero)
• 806,000 tons of debris had been screened, an average of 75 tons per hour
• 14,968 workers had been through the PPE process
• 43,600 people (39,795 NYPD, 6,212 non-NYPD) had been through the Site Specific Indoctrination
• Over 1.7 million man hours had been worked
• Over 55,000 discrete pieces of evidence had been recovered

a reply to: neutronflux

What was the time line for people realizing hijackers were uncharacteristically crashing jet in purpose and notifying the NORAD?

They had all the time they needed. There was foreknowledge of the attack and how they were going to do it.

Like I said before... Proof we let it happen was the fact the attack was carried out.

Drills.

a reply to: kyleplatinum

There was foreknowledge of the attack and how they were going to do it.

Show us proof that one of our agencies knew they were going to crash planes into buildings.

originally posted by: kyleplatinum
a reply to: neutronflux

What was the time line for people realizing hijackers were uncharacteristically crashing jet in purpose and notifying the NORAD?

They had all the time they needed. There was foreknowledge of the attack and how they were going to do it.

Like I said before... Proof we let it happen was the fact the attack was carried out.

Drills.

Is this like you claiming the floors of the towers hanging of the vertical columns were heavier near the bottom than the top? What was that question you ignored?

Why would you make a floor hanging off the vertical columns at the 12th floor more massive than the 105th floor hanging off the vertical columns?

a reply to: neutronflux

Yes was that for all 7 buildings though, the aerial photos on the day shows no where near that amount of rubble at the base of building 1 and 2, please check Judy Woods images on the link I sent you before.

a reply to: samkent


16 years later, if a person still believes the myth of the Official Conspiracy Theory, that person is not thinking clearly at all. Such a person is daily making an act of faith.

originally posted by: myss427
a reply to: neutronflux

Yes was that for all 7 buildings though, the aerial photos on the day shows no where near that amount of rubble at the base of building 1 and 2, please check Judy Woods images on the link I sent you before.

Here is the link to the article,
911encyclopedia.com...

You tell me if it was for all 7 buildings? However, the towers were 500,000 tons a piece? That is a quick thumb rule of 4,500 tons a floor? WTC 3,4,5,6, and 7 comes to about 96 floors times 4,500 tons for 432,000 tons. Plus the 1,000,000 tons of the towers? For a total of 1,432,000 tons, and the article stated 1,462,000 tons removed?

But you created an interesting thought? The claim of rubble and steel not being inspected, was that the rubble from the other 5 buildings being shipped off?

And another three more thoughts for you to mill over sense you invoked Woods name?

If Dr Woods fantasy was even possible....
- the steel columns in the pile would have had large sections of “erosions and washout”. Can you point to columns in photos or on display with that characteristic.
-The steel would have evaporated? Then there would have been super heated clouds of evaporated steel. Dust causing skin burns, burning throats, and lungs. Creating steel crystals on anything it condensed on? Like adjacent buildings?
-how would there be small mass items left like floor connections to examine?

app.aws.org...

Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
Failure of connections, as a result of overloading, occurred within the heat-affected zone of the base metal

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: samkent


16 years later, if a person still believes the myth of the Official Conspiracy Theory, that person is not thinking clearly at all. Such a person is daily making an act of faith.

No body here is defending the official narrative. The “debunkers” are posting there is no credible proof of planted explosives or Dustification at the WTC. The conspiracists talking points are based on pseudoscience and innuendo.

Unless you want to make false claims like Matthew Tartaglia had radiation poisoning. Parading around a person suffering from toxic / chemical poisoning, not radiation poisoning, as false evidence of nukes at the WTC? Did you ever dig up a quote where Matthew Tartaglia said he was poisoned by radiation?

a reply to: Salander

16 years later, if a person still believes the myth of the Official Conspiracy Theory,

Still waiting for that proof of a conspiracy.
All I have seen is hand waving.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: Salander

16 years later, if a person still believes the myth of the Official Conspiracy Theory,

Still waiting for that proof of a conspiracy.
All I have seen is hand waving.

Conspiracist and their jazz hands of innuendo? Their knife handing to whittle down any quote, butchering it into supporting their false narratives?

a reply to: myss427

the aerial photos on the day shows no where near that amount of rubble at the base of building 1 and 2

So what does that say about the catch phrase many 9/11 conspiracy pushers use, fell into their own footprint?

a reply to: Salander

Terrorists that took flight training and were groomed by deep pocket Middle Eastern interests?

Vs

Nearly impossible access to WTC columns without notice of larges crews to install explosives over what would be at least a 3 month job for a floor to floor CD System. Never address how the supposed planted explosives would effect elevator operations? As in large charges in shafts? In buildings that had explosive sniffing dogs.

In the context the video evidence shows the collapse of the towers started in the areas of the jet impacts. The impossible CD system that somehow survive jet impacts that cut vertical columns, core columns, elevator shafts, elevator cables, and fire water mains. And still maintained their integrity to start the towers’ collapse at the areas of jet impacts after wide spread fires.

Then a CD system that did not explode anything outward upon collapse initiation. No audio evidence of an explosion with the force to cut steel. No evidence of a pressure waves with the force to cut steel. No evidence of demolitions shrapnel. No demolitions shrapnel recovered from the victims or human remains.

No evidence of steel worked on by planted charges.

All to start the first never before top down CD of a high rise building? With never before used thermite for a high rise building CD? With the false narrative of up to three times in one day?