It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Declaration of Freedom

page: 2
6
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: toysforadults
how about total separation of business and government and cut all the bull# taxes out

problem solved


This should be the 11th amendment to the Bill of Rights, word-for-word.




posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied


A person that's doing something he/she is passionate about will do it with passion, despite the monetary incentives.


Really?

How many people do you believe "passionately" collect your trash every morning, or cut the grass, pick fruit, work recycling plants, deal with customers, pick up roadkill, wash dishes, empty port-o-johns....



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:38 PM
link   

originally posted by: watchitburn

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied


A person that's doing something he/she is passionate about will do it with passion, despite the monetary incentives.


Really?

How many people do you believe "passionately" collect your trash every morning, or cut the grass, pick fruit, work recycling plants, deal with customers, pick up roadkill, wash dishes, empty port-o-johns....


The only thing here that you've listed here that absolutely requires a human is customer service (and that's debatable really). There are people that enjoy customer service roles, due to interacting with people. Shocking.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:43 PM
link   
a reply to: Knightshadowz

Ah, yes, Gene Roddenberry. Envision, if you will, what this society would do with matter transmitters in the hands of extremists. Ka-boom.

You'd have to show examples where any civilization or culture advanced with no personal motive attached to the efforts. Short term assistance and co-operation? Sure. Disasters, times of war, so on.

I'm sure as heck not working as hard as I have if there wasn't personal motivation to do so. Just a guess here, but I doubt we'd be anywhere near the technological level we currently have if we could pick our fruit off of trees and chase girls in hula skirts....



edit on 5-6-2018 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: Grimmley
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

I am not going to pay for others not wanting to do for themselves, they are not my responsibility. Not to be confused that I do not help others when they are in need, I do believe they need to pursue their own success. I am all for everyone to succeed, however I am not going to pay for it, neither should anyone else.


I guess where we differ are our ideas. I subscribe to 'no man is an island'.
I already pay an exorbitant amount in taxes and for what? The social safety net of America is garbage.
So I'm paying either way, its just I'd rather what I pay go towards those that need helping and not some company that's engineering fighter jets.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:48 PM
link   
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

I understand what you're trying to argue. You imply that by removing monetary gain, you remove greed. But that's a fundamental fallacy, which is the root of so many economic and psychological disfunctions. Greed is a part of human nature. You cannot eradicate greed by simply altering our economic environment.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 05:20 PM
link   
I am free, to force you to work on my house, grow my food for me, and patch up all my booboos.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 05:27 PM
link   
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

I do understand your sentiment, and not trying to sound like an asshole, however I have paid into these taxes, and social benefits, and have never been able to utilize the few times I did. This has made me a little jaded. I much rather have the ability to help myself and my family and not be forced to pay for someone to do nothing but underwater basket weaving, while I have to work my ass off to make ends meet and have a few nice things.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 05:56 PM
link   
a reply to: Knightshadowz

If there is not financial incentive and everything is free who would be stupid enough to work a job? You going to work for free for your fellow man? Who is going to enforce laws, grow food, package and distribute it? who is going to provide clean water, electricity, fuel? Who will provide defense, medical care, build houses for expanding population?

I know your answer isn't government because who would be stupid enough to work in your utopia?

edit on 6/5/2018 by Bramble Iceshimmer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: WUNK22
We’ve already tried this in our inner city’s. Free housing, free medical, free food. Not quite the utopia you’d think! Thanx for playing, next.....


you try living in that free housing, finding the limits of that free medical care, and trying to feed you family with that allowance of free food.

take all that energy you've put into being condescending and try learning about things before you spout off, mkay

All that is well and good , but what does Mary Kay have to do with it ?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: WUNK22
We’ve already tried this in our inner city’s. Free housing, free medical, free food. Not quite the utopia you’d think! Thanx for playing, next.....


Unfortunately, you're not seeing at all the meaning behind the post. You are forgetting that those individuals don't know anything different. Just as you yourself don't know any better than to make excuses instead of looking towards a brighter future.

Free education, and the ability to pursue ones passion and you'd be on the right train of thought. There wouldn't be crime because there wouldn't be necessity. No supply and demand because you have everything you could want. To come and go as you please whenever it suits you.

To take that thought a step further would mean that you'd be free to pursue learning about this life we live. To research this universe, and to expand our understanding of technology. From there, we would fund ourselves reaching for the stars.

If your response is that it won't happen, then you are living in a broken dream with no hope of waking because the very thought drives you into a tailspin of cause and effect.

No, I must humbly submit to you that if we continue to objectify our consumerist way of life we will lose our freedom.

A society of haves and have nots is no society. It's very nature hypocritical in its claims of equality because in its base form its divided. All the while crushing the individual with conformity and segregation.

The forefathers of North America had these dreams at the heart of their words, and instead of taking them for their worth we allow others to interpret their meaning as though they were written in an ancient language. It's in those words that I find comfort, a hope, that one day my descendants might finally know the freedom I speak of.

It can be a reality. We just need not allow this greed driven machine to continue to control our lives. Nothing is easy to start.

Nothing is too difficult to overcome.

And lastly,

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

That means that the life you live is an illusion of your own creation. Shaped by your thoughts and feelings for every stimulus in your existence. The boundaries are determined only by your will. To seize control of this destiny would literally change everything about you, those around you, and every future generation to come.

Enlightenment.

And all for the prize of equality. Of truer peace, cooperation, and understanding one another because there is no monetary gain anymore. Because we care enough about life to know how precious every moment can be, and how much more we have to learn about everything.

I implore you to stop for a moment upon reading this, and take some time to consider what a "utopia" is. We are capable of changing not only our country in the process, but also the world in that we would truly value the individual. To celebrate life, and to be alive, and the right to continue to live.

Free.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer
a reply to: Knightshadowz

If there is not financial incentive and everything is free who would be stupid enough to work a job? You going to work for free for your fellow man? Who is going to enforce laws, grow food, package and distribute it? who is going to provide clean water, electricity, fuel? Who will provide defense, medical care, build houses for expanding population?

I know your answer isn't government because who would be stupid enough to work in your utopia?


As I originally stated,

Technology.

We have the ability to plant entire fields, harvest, and distribute their yields without any physical interaction. Automation is taking over production to the point that less human interaction is required. As I said, we are reaching that part in our fictions where our roles are being redefined through technology.

There will always be farmers who love to farm, and those would be the types interested in agriculture. And if you don't think a farmer wouldn't mind a farm that he didn't have to break his back on you're wrong. I know several ol fellas that talk about just this sort of idea.

You have to totally redefine the borders of your frame of thought in order to comprehend what future I am describing to you. It is one where the individual is free to do what they enjoy.

There will always be individuals who enjoy everything you view as unenjoyable. In fact, with that in mind you can be sure of it.

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to seeing where this leads.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: WUNK22
We’ve already tried this in our inner city’s. Free housing, free medical, free food. Not quite the utopia you’d think! Thanx for playing, next.....


you try living in that free housing, finding the limits of that free medical care, and trying to feed you family with that allowance of free food.

take all that energy you've put into being condescending and try learning about things before you spout off, mkay


Or how about you take all that energy you have since you have "free to you" housing, medical care, feeding your family and go get a #$%#%#$ job.

Been there, done that... take some personal responsibility and stop living on the Democratic plantation and the taxpayer's dime.

We currently have too many ticks, not enough dog... get with the program and take charge of your life.

We currently live in a country where you can actually do that, despite Democratic efforts to gain power by feeding people for a vote.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:48 PM
link   

originally posted by: Knightshadowz

originally posted by: Bramble Iceshimmer
a reply to: Knightshadowz

If there is not financial incentive and everything is free who would be stupid enough to work a job? You going to work for free for your fellow man? Who is going to enforce laws, grow food, package and distribute it? who is going to provide clean water, electricity, fuel? Who will provide defense, medical care, build houses for expanding population?

I know your answer isn't government because who would be stupid enough to work in your utopia?


As I originally stated,

Technology.

We have the ability to plant entire fields, harvest, and distribute their yields without any physical interaction. Automation is taking over production to the point that less human interaction is required. As I said, we are reaching that part in our fictions where our roles are being redefined through technology.

There will always be farmers who love to farm, and those would be the types interested in agriculture. And if you don't think a farmer wouldn't mind a farm that he didn't have to break his back on you're wrong. I know several ol fellas that talk about just this sort of idea.

You have to totally redefine the borders of your frame of thought in order to comprehend what future I am describing to you. It is one where the individual is free to do what they enjoy.

There will always be individuals who enjoy everything you view as unenjoyable. In fact, with that in mind you can be sure of it.

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to seeing where this leads.


You do realize that you are essentially quoting Karl Marx.

Worked out well all the other times... O wait.

But this time will be better because we have more loving totalitarian politicians to fix that for us!

What was the definition of insanity again?


edit on 5-6-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:53 PM
link   
a reply to: Knightshadowz


In your ideal world, how will you force people to comply who don't want to live in your "world"?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:56 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

With guns!
Come at me bro!



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: DBCowboy

With guns!
Come at me bro!


The Peoples Guns Of Peace.

FIFY




posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 08:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Knightshadowz

Ah, yes, Gene Roddenberry. Envision, if you will, what this society would do with matter transmitters in the hands of extremists. Ka-boom.

You'd have to show examples where any civilization or culture advanced with no personal motive attached to the efforts. Short term assistance and co-operation? Sure. Disasters, times of war, so on.

I'm sure as heck not working as hard as I have if there wasn't personal motivation to do so. Just a guess here, but I doubt we'd be anywhere near the technological level we currently have if we could pick our fruit off of trees and chase girls in hula skirts....




Thankfully we don't have matter transmission technology, but you're absolutely right.

To struggle is to change, and nothing happens over night. It might take a generation to achieve that future, and only in the best case scenario. It would require people to train themselves in a new method of living. That everything you need is provided through the use of technology. If an individual can pursue their dreams, then there would be no apathy. People have the right to live, and through technology be provided for.

I work my ass off for a living as a pest technician, so bear that in mind while you enjoy the AC cause it's HOT :-)

We are living the opportunity to seize that future.
edit on 5-6-2018 by Knightshadowz because: :-)



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 08:08 PM
link   


If you remove financial gain you remove incentive to do your best or even to do a good job.


Maybe true in the US where most people's idea of a good life is "getting stuff".

A good life and work effort to some people isn't only about money for stuff. The problem is that in a society run by greed, money is basically a necessary evil to stay alive because of the system design.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 08:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: WUNK22
We’ve already tried this in our inner city’s. Free housing, free medical, free food. Not quite the utopia you’d think! Thanx for playing, next.....


you try living in that free housing, finding the limits of that free medical care, and trying to feed you family with that allowance of free food.

take all that energy you've put into being condescending and try learning about things before you spout off, mkay


Actually, you have so pissed me off with your response that I am going to share something personal.

When I came out of the military, I was messed up. Things didn't work the same to me, I had some problems.

I ended up losing my family. I ended up losing everything.

I actually ended up homeless in San Antonio Texas... basically a crack whore. Lowest of the low.

I fought back from that... got on welfare, got my kids back, sent my husband to prison.

Fought the welfare system for 3 years. It's a hard place to get out of too.

Got out of that, got employed, worked on it and the kids for years to get them right again too.

Currently my kids and I are OK, the (now X) husband is still in prison, I earn 6 figures in a job that I love.

Things are good.

This doesn't happen in other countries. I've lived in a lot of them.

So I personally am happy with America because here, you can go so low that you are literally nothing. Then you can change your circumstances for the better. A LOT better, if you choose to do so.

So... if you don't want to spend a lot of energy being condescending, just please tell us your personal story of welfare and how it effected you.

Because in reading your post, you have a lot of experience in the system.

Or was it just something you read?


edit on 5-6-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
6
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join