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Question to the left: How much is enough welfare?

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posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 03:16 PM
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originally posted by: icanteven
a reply to: DieGloke


People with limited means should be able to live with dignity just as the rich and middle classes do. More and more people in low-skilled jobs will be replaced by machines. We will need to face this soon.

Going down your list:

Housing - a private home or apartment with all of the necessities
Food - SNAP benefits that are enough for the entire family to buy healthy meals, if they so choose.
Healthcare - Full coverage for medical, dental and vision with small or zero co-pays
Education - Full tuition and housing costs for state schools

I would also add a universal basic income. Not sure how much it should be, but enough to afford some comforts and small luxuries.

I don't subscribe the the minimal shelter that you advocate. That's a recipe for civil unrest and crime. Instead, I would like to see American society become the more perfect union--for all of us--as described in the declaration. That includes the pursuit of hapiness. To pursue happiness, you ought not worry about living an impoverished life if you are dealt a bad hand.

As for paying for it? Reduce the military budget and increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans.


Dear god! You are kidding right? As a fireman in a big city I go into the generational welfare houses everyday. It makes me want to puke. They have 70” TVs (better than mine), order pizza and throw the boxes on the porch to rot or blow away, most are illiterate, drinking, smoking, scum of the earth.
They dream of being rap stars or pro athletes, never to just make a living. They dial 911 for a ride downtown because they don’t want to spend $4 of our money on gas. If I called 911 I would be billed $2000 for an ambulance, but these A holes won’t ever pay a dime and could care less if that ambulance could be needed to save a life somewhere else. They will pull that race card so fast it’ll blow your hair back.
I’m all for the “camp” and they should scrub the toilets and maintain it or thrown in the street.
I’m assuming most of y’all are young and still see hope without understanding how these people are using you. Believe me, I do care, and giving these users a good middle class life while robbing the earners is how you break the productive people. Then the SHTF and real change will be made that you and they won’t like.
My god man! Somebody has to pay for that. Reduce the military and get ready to be invaded. Let’s just see how much Russia or China would furnish to these people.




posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 03:18 PM
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let's cut the crap, and get to the "meat".....raise the f'in taxes on the wealthy......they have been getting their taxes cut for 6 decades......look it up, if you don't believe it.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: TexasTruth

I think you're responding with emotion and not understanding what I am saying.

The current system. The poor get welfare and you get nothing.

The system I propose. Everyone gets the same something and only those who work recieve anything past the amount that everone gets.

In my system the poor people wouldn't need to try to take advantage because they would have enough. And the worker wouldn't have to compare themselves to the welfare recipient because there would be no welfare.

We can provide a basic quality of life for everyone while improving your situation. Which is exacty what we should be doing



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: TexasTruth

originally posted by: icanteven
a reply to: DieGloke


People with limited means should be able to live with dignity just as the rich and middle classes do. More and more people in low-skilled jobs will be replaced by machines. We will need to face this soon.

Going down your list:

Housing - a private home or apartment with all of the necessities
Food - SNAP benefits that are enough for the entire family to buy healthy meals, if they so choose.
Healthcare - Full coverage for medical, dental and vision with small or zero co-pays
Education - Full tuition and housing costs for state schools

I would also add a universal basic income. Not sure how much it should be, but enough to afford some comforts and small luxuries.

I don't subscribe the the minimal shelter that you advocate. That's a recipe for civil unrest and crime. Instead, I would like to see American society become the more perfect union--for all of us--as described in the declaration. That includes the pursuit of hapiness. To pursue happiness, you ought not worry about living an impoverished life if you are dealt a bad hand.

As for paying for it? Reduce the military budget and increase taxes on the wealthiest Americans.


Dear god! You are kidding right? As a fireman in a big city I go into the generational welfare houses everyday. It makes me want to puke. They have 70” TVs (better than mine), order pizza and throw the boxes on the porch to rot or blow away, most are illiterate, drinking, smoking, scum of the earth.
They dream of being rap stars or pro athletes, never to just make a living. They dial 911 for a ride downtown because they don’t want to spend $4 of our money on gas. If I called 911 I would be billed $2000 for an ambulance, but these A holes won’t ever pay a dime and could care less if that ambulance could be needed to save a life somewhere else. They will pull that race card so fast it’ll blow your hair back.
I’m all for the “camp” and they should scrub the toilets and maintain it or thrown in the street.
I’m assuming most of y’all are young and still see hope without understanding how these people are using you. Believe me, I do care, and giving these users a good middle class life while robbing the earners is how you break the productive people. Then the SHTF and real change will be made that you and they won’t like.
My god man! Somebody has to pay for that. Reduce the military and get ready to be invaded. Let’s just see how much Russia or China would furnish to these people.



I am not advocating staying with the status quo. I'm proposing a universal system where everyone is entitled to a certain standard of living.

I don't get as hung up about people with large TVs as you seem to. And, productive people will be productive no matter what the system is. Ambition doesn't go away just because you improve everyone's standard of living.

We are not Russia nor China, so I don't care what they would furnish to "these people". I do care about American citizens having the best quality of life imaginable. It isn't a goal that can be achieved in a single generation, but it is something to work toward.

edit on 5-6-2018 by icanteven because: typo



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:14 PM
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I have always liked to work to support myself, but I did like to take jobs where I got to collect unemployment during the winter when we were layed off. It gave a chance to heal up from abusing the body working hard nine months of the year outside. Of course part of the healing consisted of drinking a lot of that medicinal alcohol on weekends when I was younger.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: dug88

You sound Canadian.

I make around 40k a year and find it hard to get by some months. Where I live welfare gives you a maximum of 700 dollars. I know because I went on it for about 4 months after my house was firebombed 2 years ago. My life got very screwed up because of a bunch of factors and I needed that little push to get back on my feet, otherwise I would've been homeless. I was raised in the system and had nowhere to fall back on.

The OP's post about camps is absolutely ridiculous. Should we gas the poor when the camps get to full? In Canada we are looking to get rid of the welfare and disability systems and replace them with a Universal Basic Income. We are trying to do this because it is actually cheaper to pay out money to everyone making below a cutoff then to run the bloated government agencies filled with overpaid government workers that administer the programs. I can only imagine how much the cost of your camps would be.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx
let's cut the crap, and get to the "meat".....raise the f'in taxes on the wealthy......they have been getting their taxes cut for 6 decades......look it up, if you don't believe it.

Lets do "cut the crap" .
First , you have to look at the tax bracket the "rich" fall into . And realize what that means. Of course I know how difficult that logic would be to someone so jealous of well off folks they literally hate them.
Taxes are one reason so many corporations off-shore. Thus a direct impact on the number of folks that require assistance.
With logic like that , you are part of the problem.


Tax the rich,
feed the poor,
till there are no rich no more

I'd Love to Change the World - Ten Years After
The entire song is facetious as far as the 70s hippie movement

Ten Years After Lyrics

Keep the language on the playground and the jealousy to yourself .
Impresses no one , and demeans ATS.


edit on 6/5/18 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: DieGloke

A universal basic income - and I mean universal everyone gets it. Scott Santen's paper shows many ways to finance this.
medium.com...

I consider there to be an even better mix of taxes that benefits a greater number of people (over 90%) perhaps another page to discuss this though. Scott has done some very valuable work and he is well worth the read.

This is your future and it looks good to me.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 05:06 PM
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If you want to get a real sense of the problem, we change the system we have to one more like this:

We total up the amount people get in assistance, including subsidies for various things, and instead of managing their lives and assistance for them with expensive bureaucracies, we simply set a dollar amount of what it's worth and make sure it doesn't go above what the average family of that size with area median income makes and them give it a haircut so that the family can make it but won't be at all comfortable (they need incentive to work and supplement income).

Send that aid out in either monthly or biweekly remittances. Make them manage it and live like all the rest of us do.

How quickly you have people on the streets starving will tell you what the real problem is.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: Peter Brake

You can't pay for it. No one can.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Peter Brake

You can't pay for it. No one can.


Perhaps the minute spent was insufficient to read the paper linked. These numbers add up (though I have pointed out some additions required) and while the system is not "one" it is still easily capable of paying a UBI. What's more the economic activity generated from this would keep the 10% of big earners who would be disadvantaged happy.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: DieGloke

What about the children of drug addicts how would they be treated? Would they be left to starve out in the cold/hot with addict parents or a different way to handle kids?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 06:43 PM
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But, but, but Mom, Johnny has more toys than I do! Sorry, Johnny has a paper route and he buys his own toys.

How about we replace the Welfare program with a Work program for those who are able. You get housing and your needs met but instead of being paid to lay around, you have to work 40 hours a week doing something that benefits those who are paying for it all.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: DieGloke
Honest question. I don't want this to turn into a trolling thread.

Welfare never seems to be enough for the left. They always want more.

So what to you is a far system?


Me who does not claim to be on the left?

For joblessness I would provide no money instead:

A Bunk is a government run hostel/ Barracks with clean but communal living arrangements like showers and toilets.
3 basic meals a day that gives the needed nutrients and calories. Food designed for cost effectiveness not taste.
If your on hard drugs you don't get in unless in rehab.
If you steal or commit acts of violence/sexual assault you get kicked out and left to starve, provided the police don't get you first.
Must have contraceptives injections until you leave.

That way no one is homeless or starving. To help with finding work these hostels/Barracks would be given communal computers and phones.

If they want more they need to work.

That would cut the welfare bill as it will provide for those that really need it but wont be viable for a long term living due to the very basic nature.



Disability I would handle separately. If you have a true disability that is confirmed by 3 doctors and you really cant work, well I would give a comfortable payout which can be set by local authorities depended on cost of living in the area.


So what would you set welfare as? And how would you pay for it?


Be able to rent your own small apartment with a shower, kitchen and bedroom. Enough space for you to sleep and do home study courses. Grants to buy educational materials like a PC, laptop or smartphone. Needed to write resumes and application letters.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

There is that too. I am constantly hearing about how stopping illegal immigration is bad because of all those jobs Americans won't do ... well, it seems we likely have a pool of Americans who won't do jobs.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: DieGloke
Honest question. I don't want this to turn into a trolling thread.

Welfare never seems to be enough for the left. They always want more.

So what to you is a far system?


Me who does not claim to be on the left?

For joblessness I would provide no money instead:

A Bunk is a government run hostel/ Barracks with clean but communal living arrangements like showers and toilets.
3 basic meals a day that gives the needed nutrients and calories. Food designed for cost effectiveness not taste.
If your on hard drugs you don't get in unless in rehab.
If you steal or commit acts of violence/sexual assault you get kicked out and left to starve, provided the police don't get you first.
Must have contraceptives injections until you leave.

That way no one is homeless or starving. To help with finding work these hostels/Barracks would be given communal computers and phones.

If they want more they need to work.

That would cut the welfare bill as it will provide for those that really need it but wont be viable for a long term living due to the very basic nature.



Disability I would handle separately. If you have a true disability that is confirmed by 3 doctors and you really cant work, well I would give a comfortable payout which can be set by local authorities depended on cost of living in the area.


So what would you set welfare as? And how would you pay for it?


Why don't we send them to working death camps like Stalin comrade?



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 05:54 AM
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originally posted by: Themaskedbeast
a reply to: DieGloke

What about the children of drug addicts how would they be treated? Would they be left to starve out in the cold/hot with addict parents or a different way to handle kids?


If I had my way I would allow drug addicts in provided they abide by the shelters rules and agree to drug rehab. Get them help and back into society.

Better than leaving them on the streets to cause mayhem.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 05:57 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Blaine91555

There is that too. I am constantly hearing about how stopping illegal immigration is bad because of all those jobs Americans won't do ... well, it seems we likely have a pool of Americans who won't do jobs.


I don't know how immigration works in the USA but in the UK we have this problem.

Unskilled people are allowed to flood in. And the skilled visa system gets conned as well.

Then you have actually valuable jobs we need immigration for like doctors and nurses that cant be filled because the unskilled immigrants have filled the immigration cap.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 05:59 AM
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originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: DieGloke
Honest question. I don't want this to turn into a trolling thread.

Welfare never seems to be enough for the left. They always want more.

So what to you is a far system?


Me who does not claim to be on the left?

For joblessness I would provide no money instead:

A Bunk is a government run hostel/ Barracks with clean but communal living arrangements like showers and toilets.
3 basic meals a day that gives the needed nutrients and calories. Food designed for cost effectiveness not taste.
If your on hard drugs you don't get in unless in rehab.
If you steal or commit acts of violence/sexual assault you get kicked out and left to starve, provided the police don't get you first.
Must have contraceptives injections until you leave.

That way no one is homeless or starving. To help with finding work these hostels/Barracks would be given communal computers and phones.

If they want more they need to work.

That would cut the welfare bill as it will provide for those that really need it but wont be viable for a long term living due to the very basic nature.



Disability I would handle separately. If you have a true disability that is confirmed by 3 doctors and you really cant work, well I would give a comfortable payout which can be set by local authorities depended on cost of living in the area.


So what would you set welfare as? And how would you pay for it?


Be able to rent your own small apartment with a shower, kitchen and bedroom. Enough space for you to sleep and do home study courses. Grants to buy educational materials like a PC, laptop or smartphone. Needed to write resumes and application letters.



Why give them a laptop or smartphone?

That is a luxury.

They can do that all in a community room with community computers and be given a basic $20 phone that takes calls and texts.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 06:00 AM
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originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: DieGloke
Honest question. I don't want this to turn into a trolling thread.

Welfare never seems to be enough for the left. They always want more.

So what to you is a far system?


Me who does not claim to be on the left?

For joblessness I would provide no money instead:

A Bunk is a government run hostel/ Barracks with clean but communal living arrangements like showers and toilets.
3 basic meals a day that gives the needed nutrients and calories. Food designed for cost effectiveness not taste.
If your on hard drugs you don't get in unless in rehab.
If you steal or commit acts of violence/sexual assault you get kicked out and left to starve, provided the police don't get you first.
Must have contraceptives injections until you leave.

That way no one is homeless or starving. To help with finding work these hostels/Barracks would be given communal computers and phones.

If they want more they need to work.

That would cut the welfare bill as it will provide for those that really need it but wont be viable for a long term living due to the very basic nature.



Disability I would handle separately. If you have a true disability that is confirmed by 3 doctors and you really cant work, well I would give a comfortable payout which can be set by local authorities depended on cost of living in the area.


So what would you set welfare as? And how would you pay for it?


Why don't we send them to working death camps like Stalin comrade?


Hyperbole much.


A safe shelter that provides a warm bed and nutritious basic food 3 times a day with support and help for getting jobs and rehab is NOT a death camp.
edit on 6-6-2018 by DieGloke because: (no reason given)




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