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Question to the left: How much is enough welfare?

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posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.




posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: DieGloke

You must be a sad person to feel this way about people.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Exactly.

Community hostels where you can provide the basics in a clean and safe environment that's helps get people back into society is better than just letting millions of homeless freeze on the streets or dumping millions in substandard ghettos.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: wheresthebody
a reply to: DieGloke

You must be a sad person to feel this way about people.


What give safe accommodation and food to all that need it is sad?


Tell me what would you do?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Exactly.

Community hostels where you can provide the basics in a clean and safe environment that's helps get people back into society is better than just letting millions of homeless freeze on the streets or dumping millions in substandard ghettos.


Only your OP didn't specify homelessness it said jobless. By replacing welfare with camps you are just creating many more homeless. Not much of a solution.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: DieGloke

A great majority of homeless people are homeless because of mental health issues. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense to offer generous mental health supports?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Pretty much every community and city has homeless shelters that already do this. The problem is that a large percentage of chronic homeless have mental and drug problems. No amount of welfare and help is going to get them off the streets.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Exactly.

Community hostels where you can provide the basics in a clean and safe environment that's helps get people back into society is better than just letting millions of homeless freeze on the streets or dumping millions in substandard ghettos.


Only your OP didn't specify homelessness it said jobless. By replacing welfare with camps you are just creating many more homeless. Not much of a solution.


Working jobless is a much more complicated issue.

To fix that requires better education so that children grow up with marketable skills.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: Atsbhct
a reply to: DieGloke

A great majority of homeless people are homeless because of mental health issues. Wouldn't it make a lot of sense to offer generous mental health supports?


I would not be adverse to that.

Again, a good reason to get them into clean safe community accommodation.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: DieGloke

I agree that things need to change. People don't even have to try anymore and the people that do try get screwed.
I like your contraceptive idea. I get sick of seeing career welfare receivers continuing to get pregnant. What if the government wasn't there to hold their hand and give them hard earned taxpayer money? Doubt they would have their 5 cash cows, I mean children. I realize that sounds harsh but I get sick of seeing people in work clothes with a handful of items at the grocery store while people in nice, expensive clothes and completely full carts pull out their ebt card. I see more people use ebt than anything else at the store.
There was a time before welfare. People had to work if they could. How evil, Right? It's good for people. If able people were forced to work, maybe we'd have less of these craphole towns. It would benefit so much.
Can you imagine if people had to take more responsibility for themselves? They might learn some good life skills.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Exactly.

Community hostels where you can provide the basics in a clean and safe environment that's helps get people back into society is better than just letting millions of homeless freeze on the streets or dumping millions in substandard ghettos.


Only your OP didn't specify homelessness it said jobless. By replacing welfare with camps you are just creating many more homeless. Not much of a solution.


Working jobless is a much more complicated issue.

To fix that requires better education so that children grow up with marketable skills.


But if you are replacing welfare payments to those without a job then you are just creating more homelessness and more children growing up in poverty.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Exactly.

Community hostels where you can provide the basics in a clean and safe environment that's helps get people back into society is better than just letting millions of homeless freeze on the streets or dumping millions in substandard ghettos.


Only your OP didn't specify homelessness it said jobless. By replacing welfare with camps you are just creating many more homeless. Not much of a solution.


Working jobless is a much more complicated issue.

To fix that requires better education so that children grow up with marketable skills.


But if you are replacing welfare payments to those without a job then you are just creating more homelessness and more children growing up in poverty.



Which is why such changes have to be gradual.


A welfare state is like a heroine addiction, a society would have to be weened off.

Also the state education system needs changing so that children in poverty can be given the skills to get out of poverty.

Social mobility is what's needed not social stagnation and what drives social mobility is good education, innovation and the jobs that result from that.
edit on 5-6-2018 by DieGloke because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Exactly.

Community hostels where you can provide the basics in a clean and safe environment that's helps get people back into society is better than just letting millions of homeless freeze on the streets or dumping millions in substandard ghettos.


Only your OP didn't specify homelessness it said jobless. By replacing welfare with camps you are just creating many more homeless. Not much of a solution.


Working jobless is a much more complicated issue.

To fix that requires better education so that children grow up with marketable skills.


But if you are replacing welfare payments to those without a job then you are just creating more homelessness and more children growing up in poverty.



Which is why such changes have to be gradual.


A welfare state is like a heroine addiction, a society would have to be weened off.

Also the state education system needs changing so that children in poverty can be given the skills to get out of poverty.

Social mobility is what's needed not social stagnation and what drives social mobility is good education, innovation and the jobs that result from that.



Doesn't really matter if gradual or not. If you are creating a system where people have to move into camps in order not to starve to death when they lose their jobs then the first recession will create a whole new class of homeless.

Welfare isn't anything like an addiction. The majority of people claim welfare because they have to in order to survive. Not as a lifestyle choice.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:51 AM
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I'm good with a simple reworking of the system, along with a raising the minimum wage to keep up with inflation, but then again, I don't give one rat's ass how my tax dollars are used.

I mean, you are aware that there are many people who do work and still need and receive government assistance, right? When do you get the bunkhouse prison sentence? Does the government take all your belongings and your home before shipping your family to the internment camp? Oh and then there are the elderly who are poor. They can't work anymore, so I guess it's off to the bunkhouse for those worthless wastes of space.

Gonna pass on your oh so compassionate ideas to punish the poor who have done nothing against you personally.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: DieGloke
Honest question. I don't want this to turn into a trolling thread.

Welfare never seems to be enough for the left. They always want more.

So what to you is a far system?


Me who does not claim to be on the left?

For joblessness I would provide no money instead:

A Bunk is a government run hostel/ Barracks with clean but communal living arrangements like showers and toilets.
3 basic meals a day that gives the needed nutrients and calories. Food designed for cost effectiveness not taste.
If your on hard drugs you don't get in unless in rehab.
If you steal or commit acts of violence/sexual assault you get kicked out and left to starve, provided the police don't get you first.
Must have contraceptives injections until you leave.

That way no one is homeless or starving. To help with finding work these hostels/Barracks would be given communal computers and phones.

If they want more they need to work.

That would cut the welfare bill as it will provide for those that really need it but wont be viable for a long term living due to the very basic nature.



Disability I would handle separately. If you have a true disability that is confirmed by 3 doctors and you really cant work, well I would give a comfortable payout which can be set by local authorities depended on cost of living in the area.


So what would you set welfare as? And how would you pay for it?

are you talkin bout corporate welfare or for hungry peoples



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: trollz

There is a MASSIVE difference between housing the homeless (not what the OP is about) and taking away the last bit of dignity from a family trying to make ends meet, but needing assistance to get by each month, by basically forcibly removing them from their homes and sentencing them to the debtors prison.

But then again we're once again forcibly taking migrant children from their families and holding them indefinitely in chain link cages, so we probably aren't too far off from rounding up the poor and keeping them similarly locked away.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:57 AM
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DAMN, I knew those FEMA camps would come into use one day. What do you want? Keep those miserable scroungers out of sight from us normal working tax payers. Out of sight, out of mind.
Isolate them even more from the job market so it becomes even harder to get on. Why not go the extra step you are thinking of and not voicing, if they're not off benefit in a year ki** ooops I mean cull them.
Sanctimonious is not a strong enough word for all the negative commenters.
You want an answer, just ask Trump to stop spending the billions on defence and spend it on his people and infrastructure.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DieGloke

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: wheresthebody
That sounds pretty dystopian.

So does the nation with the world's largest economy having between 1 and 2 million citizens homeless and without access to appropriate medical care or healthy food.
I think the OP's idea to create managed living centers for the homeless is great. Give them a safe place to live, while providing the food and essential medical attention they need while they are trained or otherwise assisted in finding employment. We should also be doing everything we can to eradicate addiction, particularly among homeless, as the two things often go hand in hand.


Exactly.

Community hostels where you can provide the basics in a clean and safe environment that's helps get people back into society is better than just letting millions of homeless freeze on the streets or dumping millions in substandard ghettos.


Only your OP didn't specify homelessness it said jobless. By replacing welfare with camps you are just creating many more homeless. Not much of a solution.


Working jobless is a much more complicated issue.

To fix that requires better education so that children grow up with marketable skills.


But if you are replacing welfare payments to those without a job then you are just creating more homelessness and more children growing up in poverty.



Which is why such changes have to be gradual.


A welfare state is like a heroine addiction, a society would have to be weened off.

Also the state education system needs changing so that children in poverty can be given the skills to get out of poverty.

Social mobility is what's needed not social stagnation and what drives social mobility is good education, innovation and the jobs that result from that.



Doesn't really matter if gradual or not. If you are creating a system where people have to move into camps in order not to starve to death when they lose their jobs then the first recession will create a whole new class of homeless.

Welfare isn't anything like an addiction. The majority of people claim welfare because they have to in order to survive. Not as a lifestyle choice.


Which is why a society needs to address the problem of working welfare.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: usernameconspiracy
a reply to: trollz

There is a MASSIVE difference between housing the homeless (not what the OP is about) and taking away the last bit of dignity from a family trying to make ends meet, but needing assistance to get by each month, by basically forcibly removing them from their homes and sentencing them to the debtors prison.

But then again we're once again forcibly taking migrant children from their families and holding them indefinitely in chain link cages, so we probably aren't too far off from rounding up the poor and keeping them similarly locked away.



originally posted by: usernameconspiracy
I'm good with a simple reworking of the system, along with a raising the minimum wage to keep up with inflation, but then again, I don't give one rat's ass how my tax dollars are used.

I mean, you are aware that there are many people who do work and still need and receive government assistance, right? When do you get the bunkhouse prison sentence? Does the government take all your belongings and your home before shipping your family to the internment camp? Oh and then there are the elderly who are poor. They can't work anymore, so I guess it's off to the bunkhouse for those worthless wastes of space.

Gonna pass on your oh so compassionate ideas to punish the poor who have done nothing against you personally.


Hyperbole much.

You keep using the term prison.

Where in my idea did you see me advocate that people are not free to leave? They can at any time.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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Is the current welfare model across most developed countries flawed. Absolutely.

Is sending people to camps an improvement. Absolutely not.




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