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Statues. . . the new hate speech

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posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Me? I start to believe that we don't share the same dictionary.

Define "wonderful" , please!





posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

You know, there's something you may really be missing here. Its called relevance.

Right now, the percentage of foreign born people in the US is 14%.
www.pewhispanic.org...

Add to that the number born in the US to parents of foreign born origin and your talking biggly numbers of people who really have no touch with or interest in US history. They are interested in their history. US history isnt relative to them.

Now add to that the falling birth rate for those whos families have been in the US 100 years or more and what you see is that theres a sea change going on. In probably 50 years those peoples descendants will be a marked minority. The millenials wont even replace themselves.
www.pewresearch.org...

I cant think of any other country with this type issue except maybe Nigeria as an example. Nigeria was a British Colony. How relavant to present day Nigerians are statues of British heros?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: DBCowboy

What you are presenting is itself a false equivalence and straw man.


No.

It is not.

Have a wonderful day.



Giving up already?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: TonyS


There was plenty of ancient history when I was in the UK.

Some good, some bad, but it was a culture of rich deep history. US history doesn't compare.


I wonder how long that will last.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: introvert

He'll go for that precious shovel next and there's lotta mud in the pit.

Duck and cover!



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I wonder how much longer the US will last.

I rather doubt that it will in its current form. It was said of the Roman Empire that Rome and is culture were less a culture of blood bound citizens than it was an idea. That was said because so many immigrants and former slaves won Roman citizenship via service in the Legions.

Italy is the Nation of the Italians.....a racial European sub group.
The US has no such identity. Thus, much like Rome, the US Republic is less a traditional blood bound nation state than it is an idea.

Ideas come and go.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SprocketUK

It's really not comparable, but I'll give it a shot here.

Perhaps instead of tearing it down and erasing all evidence of Saville, additional signs could be posted on or near the memorials to educate and illuminate what he really was.

I see a big problem when society in general chooses to erase information, hide information instead of educating and illuminating.


Knowledge is power. And all we're doing is disarming ourselves and denying ourselves a wealth of information all under the guise of offense.





Would you object to ugly statues and buildings being removed? They are part of the culture too.
How about those awful Tower blocks from the 60's? Or 30's tenements? Should we keep those because of history?

What good does it do us as a society to walk around a corner and be confronted by a statue of Jimmy Saville? It's not like anyone needs telling who he was and what he did, is it?

What is someone going to learn from seeing a 60's statue of a civil war colonel that was put up as a protest against the end of segregation?
I repet, these are not war memorials, they aren't commemorating the sacrifice and efforts of the South in the civil war. What does a city lose when the statue goes? It's not like, say, getting rid of Churchill from outside the Houses of Westminster, is it?



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SprocketUK

It's really not comparable, but I'll give it a shot here.

Perhaps instead of tearing it down and erasing all evidence of Saville, additional signs could be posted on or near the memorials to educate and illuminate what he really was.

I see a big problem when society in general chooses to erase information, hide information instead of educating and illuminating.


Knowledge is power. And all we're doing is disarming ourselves and denying ourselves a wealth of information all under the guise of offense.





Would you object to ugly statues and buildings being removed? They are part of the culture too.
How about those awful Tower blocks from the 60's? Or 30's tenements? Should we keep those because of history?

What good does it do us as a society to walk around a corner and be confronted by a statue of Jimmy Saville? It's not like anyone needs telling who he was and what he did, is it?

What is someone going to learn from seeing a 60's statue of a civil war colonel that was put up as a protest against the end of segregation?
I repet, these are not war memorials, they aren't commemorating the sacrifice and efforts of the South in the civil war. What does a city lose when the statue goes? It's not like, say, getting rid of Churchill from outside the Houses of Westminster, is it?


Don't be fooled. This has nothing to do with culture, history or fears that we are "burning books".

It's about politics. Plain and simple.



posted on Jun, 5 2018 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

I think the U.S. should follow the lead of the Hungarians. They rounded up all of the communist-era statues and put them all in a park outside of Budapest. That way, people can look at them if they want and reminisce about the good old days of the confederacy and segregation... oops, I meant reminisce about communism.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 12:43 AM
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originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SprocketUK

It's really not comparable, but I'll give it a shot here.

Perhaps instead of tearing it down and erasing all evidence of Saville, additional signs could be posted on or near the memorials to educate and illuminate what he really was.

I see a big problem when society in general chooses to erase information, hide information instead of educating and illuminating.


Knowledge is power. And all we're doing is disarming ourselves and denying ourselves a wealth of information all under the guise of offense.





Would you object to ugly statues and buildings being removed? They are part of the culture too.
How about those awful Tower blocks from the 60's? Or 30's tenements? Should we keep those because of history?

What good does it do us as a society to walk around a corner and be confronted by a statue of Jimmy Saville? It's not like anyone needs telling who he was and what he did, is it?

What is someone going to learn from seeing a 60's statue of a civil war colonel that was put up as a protest against the end of segregation?
I repet, these are not war memorials, they aren't commemorating the sacrifice and efforts of the South in the civil war. What does a city lose when the statue goes? It's not like, say, getting rid of Churchill from outside the Houses of Westminster, is it?


Right now there is no need for statues of Saville. In 10 years, 30 years, 100 years. . ? Might be a different story, assuming we both agree he was not a personality to be emulated.

After that, the rest of your argument tends to fall apart.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 02:46 AM
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originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: DBCowboy

Because of all the nonsense associated with this issue, Alabama passed a law that protects *ALL* historic Memorial statues from being torn down by a city, town or municipality.

Alabama Memorial Preservation Act

How's that for an entire state smackdown of the politically correct class?

LOL!!


I thought it might be good to repeat that post... When I started looking at the upcoming elections here, one commercial stood out and made my decision for governor: when Kay Ivey said she signed that law preventing destruction of national monuments.

At that point, I don't care if she clubs baby seals so she can eat their brains raw while they die in agony. She has my vote, period. As a matter of fact, if I found out she did that to the fools who are promoting the removal of history, I would consider it a positive.

For those self-righteous... er... estimable... people who choose to call my ancestors traitors... you've outed yourselves for what you are: the most intolerant, uninformed, intentionally and proudly ignorant people I can imagine today. Please keep yourself out of Alabama. You won't like it here, and we don't want your kind here; we have quite enough fools in Montgomery already. You can call me anything you like, and I'll likely shrug it off. You called my family traitorous. Around here that would be a problem... count on it.

For DBCowboy... you make a perfect analogy. There really is no difference between the destruction/removal of historical monuments and a public burning of books. Of course, we have a little of both. Have you read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn lately? It has been redacted. The first book ever published by a well-known American author to oppose slavery, the book that some historians arguably attribute as having much to do with the later emergence of the move to abolish slavery, has been censored. The book that used that dreaded word that may not be spoken to illustrate how truly human the runaway slave Jim was, how oppressive and inhumane the institution of slavery was, has been butchered to remove that part.

He who does not learn the lessons of history is doomed to repeat them.

Summer school appears to be in session.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 02:48 AM
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originally posted by: randomtangentsrme

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SprocketUK

It's really not comparable, but I'll give it a shot here.

Perhaps instead of tearing it down and erasing all evidence of Saville, additional signs could be posted on or near the memorials to educate and illuminate what he really was.

I see a big problem when society in general chooses to erase information, hide information instead of educating and illuminating.


Knowledge is power. And all we're doing is disarming ourselves and denying ourselves a wealth of information all under the guise of offense.





Would you object to ugly statues and buildings being removed? They are part of the culture too.
How about those awful Tower blocks from the 60's? Or 30's tenements? Should we keep those because of history?

What good does it do us as a society to walk around a corner and be confronted by a statue of Jimmy Saville? It's not like anyone needs telling who he was and what he did, is it?

What is someone going to learn from seeing a 60's statue of a civil war colonel that was put up as a protest against the end of segregation?
I repet, these are not war memorials, they aren't commemorating the sacrifice and efforts of the South in the civil war. What does a city lose when the statue goes? It's not like, say, getting rid of Churchill from outside the Houses of Westminster, is it?


Right now there is no need for statues of Saville. In 10 years, 30 years, 100 years. . ? Might be a different story, assuming we both agree he was not a personality to be emulated.

After that, the rest of your argument tends to fall apart.


I disagree both with the point about learning from a Saville statue and also your contention that my argument fell apart.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
It's always been my contention that tearing down statues is akin to book burning.

Lots of classic american books are now banned in schools too.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I too am weary of the snide attack on Southern people by going after Civil War monuments.
The Yankee moral outrage is such a Puritan viewpoint - straight out of Salem.
I think Toryism is making a come back actually.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: crtrvt

More overly sensitive, easily offended is evolved? ...I would also ask, moving onto what, forgetting where we've been, just means having to go over the same ground again.

That's just plain stupid, imho. Statues, for those who care enough to learn, are reminders of that past. A past that it would be well to remember.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

It's been many years since I watched that movie... That there's even the vaguest resemblance should be worrisome.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

That way, you needn't worry about smoke. Environmentally sound.



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 11:00 PM
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a reply to: DieGloke

It does indeed. Nothing good, but it does say a lot...



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 11:03 PM
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Lets just kill everyone over 30 and let the reeducation begin.

^_^



posted on Jun, 6 2018 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Luckily, Kay Ivey signed that law.

Incidentally, she got the nomination. Unless the Democratic Party spends big bucks to hire some people to say she's a lesbian pedophile, she's a shoe-in in November.

TheRedneck



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