You Don't Have to Bake a Gay Cake - SCOTUS

a reply to: kaylaluv

Stop lying.

Phillips sold other baked goods to same-sex couples but refused to make them custom-made wedding cakes, which he said violated his firmly held religious beliefs against same-sex marriage.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

From what I understood the couple never got a chance to tell the baker what they wanted.

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

LOL. "Ham-fisted". That was good.

Doesn't matter. It's a religious interpretation and according to some posters here the bakers have every right to deny services to certain people based on their interpretation. This baker interpreted the Bible to mean he can not serve the gay couples or else he'll suffer the consequence.

No, he interpreted it to believe he will not participate (ie offer services to) an event that celebrates a lifestyle that includes a behavior that he believes is sinful.

He has sold other products of his own creation to gay people, and saying otherwise is a blatant lie.

Correct. As I have stated the racist bakers can interpret it to refuse service to interracial or black couples and there's nothing we can do about it as a few posters here have stated. That's my original point. Anyone can twist the Bible to mean anything.

Sure, a racist baker can do that if they can prove it's a deeply-held belief, with a history of consistency.

How many bakers like that do you know? I'm sure we're in for a pandemic wave.

a reply to: RowanBean

And he didn't initially.

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Wardaddy454

From what I understood the couple never got a chance to tell the baker what they wanted.

Got a source? Here's what I found, granted it's from the Alliance Defending Freedom:

adflegal.org...

In July 2012, two men came into Jack’s cakeshop requesting a custom wedding cake celebrating their same-sex marriage. In a very brief exchange, Jack politely declined the request, saying that he could not design cakes for same-sex weddings, but offering to design them custom cakes for other occasions or to sell them any other premade item in his shop.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

LOL. "Ham-fisted". That was good.

Doesn't matter. It's a religious interpretation and according to some posters here the bakers have every right to deny services to certain people based on their interpretation. This baker interpreted the Bible to mean he can not serve the gay couples or else he'll suffer the consequence.

No, he interpreted it to believe he will not participate (ie offer services to) an event that celebrates a lifestyle that includes a behavior that he believes is sinful.

He has sold other products of his own creation to gay people, and saying otherwise is a blatant lie.

Correct. As I have stated the racist bakers can interpret it to refuse service to interracial or black couples and there's nothing we can do about it as a few posters here have stated. That's my original point. Anyone can twist the Bible to mean anything.

Sure, a racist baker can do that if they can prove it's a deeply-held belief, with a history of consistency.

How many bakers like that do you know? I'm sure we're in for a pandemic wave.

Haven't heard of that many Christian business owners who discriminated. As far as I can remember it's this baker and the other one and there's Kim Davis. Can't remember the other ones.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yeah I understand that. But did the couple get the chance to tell him the design?

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

LOL. "Ham-fisted". That was good.

Doesn't matter. It's a religious interpretation and according to some posters here the bakers have every right to deny services to certain people based on their interpretation. This baker interpreted the Bible to mean he can not serve the gay couples or else he'll suffer the consequence.

No, he interpreted it to believe he will not participate (ie offer services to) an event that celebrates a lifestyle that includes a behavior that he believes is sinful.

He has sold other products of his own creation to gay people, and saying otherwise is a blatant lie.

Correct. As I have stated the racist bakers can interpret it to refuse service to interracial or black couples and there's nothing we can do about it as a few posters here have stated. That's my original point. Anyone can twist the Bible to mean anything.

Sure, a racist baker can do that if they can prove it's a deeply-held belief, with a history of consistency.

How many bakers like that do you know? I'm sure we're in for a pandemic wave.

Haven't heard of that many Christian business owners who discriminated. As far as I can remember it's this baker and the other one and there's Kim Davis. Can't remember the other ones.

Why do you default to Christian? Are you saying only Christians can be racist?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

LOL. "Ham-fisted". That was good.

Doesn't matter. It's a religious interpretation and according to some posters here the bakers have every right to deny services to certain people based on their interpretation. This baker interpreted the Bible to mean he can not serve the gay couples or else he'll suffer the consequence.

No, he interpreted it to believe he will not participate (ie offer services to) an event that celebrates a lifestyle that includes a behavior that he believes is sinful.

He has sold other products of his own creation to gay people, and saying otherwise is a blatant lie.

Correct. As I have stated the racist bakers can interpret it to refuse service to interracial or black couples and there's nothing we can do about it as a few posters here have stated. That's my original point. Anyone can twist the Bible to mean anything.

Sure, a racist baker can do that if they can prove it's a deeply-held belief, with a history of consistency.

How many bakers like that do you know? I'm sure we're in for a pandemic wave.

Haven't heard of that many Christian business owners who discriminated. As far as I can remember it's this baker and the other one and there's Kim Davis. Can't remember the other ones.

Why do you default to Christian? Are you saying only Christians can be racist?

Nope. I'm saying that Christians can interpret the Bible to mean anything they want it to be. In this case the baker interpret it to mean what he want it to mean.

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yeah I understand that. But did the couple get the chance to tell him the design?

It doesn't matter what the design was. Once he learned what event the couple intended for the cake, Phillips declined to participate in the event while at the same time continuing to offer his other services and products.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yeah I understand that. But did the couple get the chance to tell him the design?

It doesn't matter what the design was. Once he learned what event the couple intended for the cake, Phillips declined to participate in the event while at the same time continuing to offer his other services and products.

See that's the definition of discrimination right there.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

If you come here looking for me to create a cake for a gay wedding from scratch, I regret to inform you that I will not provide that service.

"If you come here looking for me to create a cake for an interracial wedding from scratch, I regret to inform you that I will not provide that service."

That's not the topic, is it?

Really Sherlock?

Yes, really. Is there a religious dogma that says a man and woman of different races cannot marry?

Yep. KKK used that argument. See "curse of Ham".

Christian dogma doesn't include a ham-fisted interpretation of a curse from Noah, last I checked.

Christianity also doesn't have restrictions on selling goods to "sinners."

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

LOL. "Ham-fisted". That was good.

Doesn't matter. It's a religious interpretation and according to some posters here the bakers have every right to deny services to certain people based on their interpretation. This baker interpreted the Bible to mean he can not serve the gay couples or else he'll suffer the consequence.

No, he interpreted it to believe he will not participate (ie offer services to) an event that celebrates a lifestyle that includes a behavior that he believes is sinful.

He has sold other products of his own creation to gay people, and saying otherwise is a blatant lie.

Correct. As I have stated the racist bakers can interpret it to refuse service to interracial or black couples and there's nothing we can do about it as a few posters here have stated. That's my original point. Anyone can twist the Bible to mean anything.

Sure, a racist baker can do that if they can prove it's a deeply-held belief, with a history of consistency.

How many bakers like that do you know? I'm sure we're in for a pandemic wave.

Haven't heard of that many Christian business owners who discriminated. As far as I can remember it's this baker and the other one and there's Kim Davis. Can't remember the other ones.

Why do you default to Christian? Are you saying only Christians can be racist?

Nope. I'm saying that Christians can interpret the Bible to mean anything they want it to be. In this case the baker interpret it to mean what he want it to mean.

And I'm saying a business owner has the right to decline to participate in an event or ceremony separate from the person requesting their services, so long as it is established they are not denying all services based on the person making the request. If Phillips had kicked the two men out and denied all his services because they were gay, there would be no question that he was in the wrong.

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yeah I understand that. But did the couple get the chance to tell him the design?

It doesn't matter what the design was. Once he learned what event the couple intended for the cake, Phillips declined to participate in the event while at the same time continuing to offer his other services and products.

See that's the definition of discrimination right there.

Did he deny all services?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

If you come here looking for me to create a cake for a gay wedding from scratch, I regret to inform you that I will not provide that service.

"If you come here looking for me to create a cake for an interracial wedding from scratch, I regret to inform you that I will not provide that service."

That's not the topic, is it?

Really Sherlock?

Yes, really. Is there a religious dogma that says a man and woman of different races cannot marry?

Yep. KKK used that argument. See "curse of Ham".

Christian dogma doesn't include a ham-fisted interpretation of a curse from Noah, last I checked.

Christianity also doesn't have restrictions on selling goods to "sinners."

Except for the money changers like certain Republicans.

*Ducks then runs away*

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

If you come here looking for me to create a cake for a gay wedding from scratch, I regret to inform you that I will not provide that service.

"If you come here looking for me to create a cake for an interracial wedding from scratch, I regret to inform you that I will not provide that service."

That's not the topic, is it?

Really Sherlock?

Yes, really. Is there a religious dogma that says a man and woman of different races cannot marry?

Yep. KKK used that argument. See "curse of Ham".

Christian dogma doesn't include a ham-fisted interpretation of a curse from Noah, last I checked.

Christianity also doesn't have restrictions on selling goods to "sinners."

Did he deny any of his pre-made items, or other services for other occasions?

Answer: no.

Follow-up: we are all sinners, if someone refused to sell to sinners they would quickly go out of business.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yeah I understand that. But did the couple get the chance to tell him the design?

It doesn't matter what the design was. Once he learned what event the couple intended for the cake, Phillips declined to participate in the event while at the same time continuing to offer his other services and products.

See that's the definition of discrimination right there.

Did he deny all services?

The baker didn't know what the design was. He outright denied their service when he heard it was their wedding without knowing what the design they wanted. I've stated that I agree about the artistic expression but it wasn't that this time. They could have asked a simple and plain wedding cake but no he had to stop them and deny them.

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: RowanBean
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yeah I understand that. But did the couple get the chance to tell him the design?

It doesn't matter what the design was. Once he learned what event the couple intended for the cake, Phillips declined to participate in the event while at the same time continuing to offer his other services and products.

See that's the definition of discrimination right there.

Did he deny all services?

The baker didn't know what the design was. He outright denied their service when he heard it was their wedding without knowing what the design they wanted. I've stated that I agree about the artistic expression but it wasn't that this time. They could have asked a simple and plain wedding cake but no he had to stop them and deny them.

He offered pre-made cakes, just not a custom wedding cake that would be made afterwards. If they refused a pre-made cake that decision was on them, not the owner.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

... and yet, this baker refused to sell to these customers because he felt that making a gay cake was sinful, right?

Are you saying that the baker DIDN'T have a religious issue with baking the cake? I would tend to agree, but I don't pretend to be able to read his mind.

The fact, despite attempts to muddy it, is clear. The baker stated that he would not make a gay wedding cake. That is a direct reference to the sexual orientation of the potential customers and thus was rightly brought before the Civil Rights Commission in CO. However, the Civil Rights Commission directed their comments not at the right to public accomodation, but instead, tried to adjudicate that one civil right was superior to another ... and SCOTUS corrected that today while simultaneously encoding in legal precedent that States can protect the rights of all citizens, including the gay and lesbian ones.

a reply to: Edumakated

I don't think a business should be forced to serve anyone for any reason. Idiot businesses turning away hard earned cash will likely find themselves out of business. Secondly, if a company doesn't want my money, I am going to take my business elsewhere.

That. If someone doesn't want your business why give it to them?