FBI agent accidentally shoots patron during dance

www.denverpost.com...

Fbi agent tries to do a backflip, his gun falls out, and he tries to retrieve it by the trigger and accidentally shoots a man in the leg. No charges filed yet.
Some take aways from this...

1. Had anyone else done this, they would be in jail.
2. Why are LEOs encouraged to have weapons without thumb safeties!?! They are largely untrained! For years militaries have picked sidearms with thumb safeties and heavy triggers for exactly this reason!

But hey, only the government should have guns right?

a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

He is allowed to carry
His intent was not to shoot anybody
He is trusted already as law enforcement
He is a low IQ idiot for taking a chambered peace maker into a function

The small one ( Kimber stainless Ultra Carry 2 ) is my carry. Its a 45. I never chamber a shell, because the hammer stays back. You can lower it, but Id rather just leave the shells in the mag, until Im ready to fire it

a reply to: visitedbythem

Reckless endangerment doesnt require intent.

What we are seeing here is a double standard.

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
www.denverpost.com...

Fbi agent tries to do a backflip, his gun falls out, and he tries to retrieve it by the trigger and accidentally shoots a man in the leg. No charges filed yet.
Some take aways from this...

1. Had anyone else done this, they would be in jail.
2. Why are LEOs encouraged to have weapons without thumb safeties!?! They are largely untrained! For years militaries have picked sidearms with thumb safeties and heavy triggers for exactly this reason!

But hey, only the government should have guns right?

Maybe discourage dumbasses from doing backflips with a loaded weapon. That's my safety tip...

originally posted by: visitedbythem
The small one ( Kimber stainless Ultra Carry 2 ) is my carry. Its a 45. I never chamber a shell, because the hammer stays back. You can lower it, but Id rather just leave the shells in the mag, until Im ready to fire it

Why have the hammer back if no round is chambered?
Not familiar with 1911. If you have a round chambered with the saftey engaged, and then disengage the safety, could you fire double action?

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt

originally posted by: visitedbythem
The small one ( Kimber stainless Ultra Carry 2 ) is my carry. Its a 45. I never chamber a shell, because the hammer stays back. You can lower it, but Id rather just leave the shells in the mag, until Im ready to fire it

Why have the hammer back if no round is chambered?
Not familiar with 1911. If you have a round chambered with the saftey engaged, and then disengage the safety, could you fire double action?

No, the 1911 is a single-action handgun.

Page 2 of the 1911 users manual specifically mentions that this firearm is unsafe when doing backflips.

a reply to: Whoisjohngalt
Probably a Glock which has no real safety..youtu.be... Being old school I got rid of my Glock simply for safety reasons. It shot great never a problem but I did not like the lack of safety on the weapon.. Others seem to have no problem carrying one as they are standard issue in many departments..


The 1911 "cocked and locked" Hammer back and one in the chamber will not fire as there are two safeties.. One safety is the back of the grip that is automatically depressed when gripped and the other is the mechanical thumb safety located on the back side of the frame which is moved to the fire position when ready to shoot. Both safeties have to be released for the gun to fire... Many many people carry a 1911 in the cocked and locked position to include at one time the Texas Rangers.

When I carried a 1911 I carried cocked and locked 80% of the time and in 60+ years I have never had a negligent discharge with a weapon. But.....I grew up on a farm and was carrying weapons of some sort at a very early age and knew without a doubt what one could do to an animal or anything else.. All my country folk kids/playmates had some form of a long gun shooting weapon which we used on snakes and other varmints... Parents would not let us kids have a pistol simple because they were thought to dangerous....
1911 cocked and locked
youtu.be...

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt

originally posted by: visitedbythem
The small one ( Kimber stainless Ultra Carry 2 ) is my carry. Its a 45. I never chamber a shell, because the hammer stays back. You can lower it, but Id rather just leave the shells in the mag, until Im ready to fire it

Why have the hammer back if no round is chambered?
Not familiar with 1911. If you have a round chambered with the saftey engaged, and then disengage the safety, could you fire double action?

Page 2 of the 1911 users manual specifically mentions that this firearm is unsafe when doing backflips.

Dammit, I just sprayed beer over my laptop, that was a cracker of a comment....

a reply to: 727Sky

Glocks have safety triggers. Works similar to the thumb locks on a 1911. A finger has to be used to fire a glock something hitting the trigger will not allow it to fire. The only way to fire a glock is for a finger to press the trigger.
No matter how you look at this this agent needs to lose his ability to carry. Hes shown to be incompetent if he tried to pick up a firearm using the trigger housing. In fact you could throw it loaded and it wont fo off because it also has two automatic internal safeties: a firing pin safety, and a drop safety.

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
1. Had anyone else done this, they would be in jail.

Depends on the state law and the circumstances surrounding the discharge.

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
2. Why are LEOs encouraged to have weapons without thumb safeties!?!

Duty weapons are defined by the agency in question. Most agencies assign a department issued duty weapon to an officer / agent. Most agencies also require an officer to qualify with any personal off duty weapon they have if they are going to carry it with agency credentials. Most agencies have guidelines that also restrict the type of weapon they carry based off of the agency's training division certifications (IE they cant carry a weapon unless the agency has a certified armorer on staff with that weapons certification).

As for other restrictions it is state law / local law or agency specific. That includes trigger pull, scopes, sights and all the bells and whistles available. My first agency required us to carry a Sig Sauer P226. My second agency when I moved states required Glocks.

Glocks have a "safety" however its not a standard safety. There is a secondary trigger on the main trigger that must be pulled in order to fire the weapon. So in essence the safety on a glock is the persons finger.

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
They are largely untrained!

and this is based on?? I have received extensive firearm training and am required to qualify twice yearly. That doesnt include standard ongoing training requirements the agency and the state requires. Shooting is a perishable skill which is why there are requirements in place.

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
For years militaries have picked sidearms with thumb safeties and heavy triggers for exactly this reason!

The US military requirement was for single action / double action. At the time they chose the Beretta's Glocks had just come to the market and did not have a proven record yet. Given the lack of the single / double action it would not have met US government requirements.

The established requirements are the main factors in determining what weapon the military uses. The reason for the switch to the Beretta's was the 1911's were problematic with discharging inside barracks / buildings / etc. The most recent switch was to the Sig Sauer.

The other major factor in determining what weapon they want has a lot to do with the ability of the manufacturer to supply the items needed while being in compliance with RFP's - IE cost.

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
But hey, only the government should have guns right?

Absolutely not.


Even military weapons with all the safeties and what not dont always work as intended.

a reply to: dragonridr

That safety trigger is barely a safety. Plenty of times have people had negligent discharges while holstering glocks having bunched clothes press the trigger. Uncle mikes even had to recall a holster because too many people where getting part of the retaining strap stuck in the trigger guard and shooting themselves.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: 727Sky

Glocks have safety triggers. Works similar to the thumb locks on a 1911. A finger has to be used to fire a glock something hitting the trigger will not allow it to fire.

Reply: something hitting the side of the trigger and the gun will not fire..agree

The only way to fire a glock is for a finger to press the trigger.

Reply: disagree as certain holsters can snag the front of the trigger releasing the so called trigger safety..

No matter how you look at this this agent needs to lose his ability to carry. Hes shown to be incompetent if he tried to pick up a firearm using the trigger housing.

Reply: N.D.s happen to some of the best.. A world champion fast draw (sorry do not remember his name) shot himself in the gut with a 1911.. He was alone at his range and had to drive himself to the hospital.. He told the story while doing a demo at a military academy .. Unbelievably fast and he was already close to 50 years old..

In fact you could throw it loaded and it wont fo off because it also has two automatic internal safeties: a firing pin safety, and a drop safety..

Reply: Agree... my only concern was the trigger safety when I carried one which made me more conscience than I felt I needed to be....

The 1911 I stopped carrying because of the limited load out except for night hunting and the slaughter of feral pigs; it was my backup if the long gun failed during a pig attack....pigs never attacked for they were dead..hahahha also my full size 1911 was to big and heavy during the hot summer for me to carry all the time.... I ended up carrying a S&W 9mm with 15 double stacked rounds and still have that pistol stored in the states.. Again I owned a Glock .40 cal and yes they are fine weapons..just not my cup of tea.. and yes many swear by them.. If everyone like the same thing there would not be enough to go around hahahha

a reply to: Xcathdra

Qualifying twice a year is not enough to be handling weapons with psuedo-safteys and 6 pound triggers. Granted, its not my business to tell people in there own lives what guns they can have. Just like you cant enforce OSHA standards on a guy painting his own house. But as part of a government job, there should either be a lot more training, or weapons that are more forgiving of the negligence that will take place. Thats why the government wanted sa/da. A heavy trigger is another safeguard when some PVT wants to rest his finger on the trigger. The russians had the same logic with the makarov. The video you shared shows why the pols created the p-64 which requires you to rent a tractor in order to fire DA.

Also, im pretty sure thats just how all polish people remove their hats.

a reply to: 727Sky

that first video is one of the OG lulz making its rounds.
you see these in all the videos. too short carry one. blah blah carry one. im the only one qualified to BOOM


classic

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt

originally posted by: visitedbythem
The small one ( Kimber stainless Ultra Carry 2 ) is my carry. Its a 45. I never chamber a shell, because the hammer stays back. You can lower it, but Id rather just leave the shells in the mag, until Im ready to fire it

Why have the hammer back if no round is chambered?
Not familiar with 1911. If you have a round chambered with the saftey engaged, and then disengage the safety, could you fire double action?

There is no safety

a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

Good ol' Johnny Utah.

a reply to: 0zzymand0s

hahahah
perfect

that is a damn good movie. i think i have to watch it now.
thanks warchild

a reply to: TinySickTears

I'm going to have to do the same this afternoon. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the story this morning.

Cheers!

a reply to: Whoisjohngalt

The cell video of the incident is here.