Ancient Egyptian visitors to Australia or miner's mishap?

While I don't think Egyptians sailed much beyònd the coast of east Africa and the Med, stuff did made it's way to Egypt like silk found in the new kingdom, so I have no doubt if they wanted to they could , even with their shipping technology at the time, but could do and doing is not the samething,

Btw lil off topic but Australia keep having stuff on it's shore that's not supposed to be there, like the middle ages Swahili coins from Tanzania of 900 yrs ago.
anthrogenica.com...

originally posted by: Spider879
While I don't think Egyptians sailed much beyònd the coast of east Africa and the Med, stuff did made it's way to Egypt like silk found in the new kingdom, so I have no doubt if they wanted to they could , even with their shipping technology at the time, but could do and doing is not the samething,

Btw lil off topic but Australia keep having stuff on it's shore that's not supposed to be there, like the middle ages Swahili coins from Tanzania of 900 yrs ago.
anthrogenica.com...

That's a very interesting read. Thanks for the link.

This is an interesting article from the Museum holding the coins.

A few observations:
1. Unfortunately this is another case where much of the provenance of the artifact has been lost. Morry Isenberg found the coins on the beach in 1944, but he didn't donate them to the museum until 1980. It was also at that point when he marked up a map to show where he found them. Thirty-six years can introduce significant fact drift.

2. I'm no expert, but I believe that Mr. Isenberg may have cleaned the coins. Possibly for display. However, the original patina of the coins would have provided some crucial information about how long the coins had lain on the beach.

3. It looks like the numbers in the headlines may be a little off:

Three may be dated to the reign of Sultan Sulaiman bin al-Hasan (1294-1308), and the other two to the reign of Sultan ‘Ali bin al-Hasan (1480-1482).

So the oldest coins are about 700 years old. The newest ones are about 540 years old.

4. Dutch navigator Willem Janszoon made contact with the indigenous people of Australia in 1606. It's conceivable his party may have some coins from the Kilwa Sultanate acquired from the Portuguese, who conquered the African empire in 1505.

5. There were 9 coins in total. The other 4 were Dutch East India coins from the 1600's to 1700's. This time period roughly corresponds to Englishman Captain Cook's landing in 1770. Perhaps his party had some of these ancient coins and traded them as trinkets to the Aborigines for supplies, along with more contemporary coins.

6. One proposed theory is the coins were part of a more modern collector's collection. There were a lot of shipwrecks in the area where the coins were found. And the coins were located on the beach, on top of the sand.

7. Another interesting theory is that this particular location on the Australian continent is adjacent to a large freshwater lake. It would be a perfect location for ships to refresh their drinking water supplies. So, it could have served as a useful port for years before there was any organized effort to map the continent.

8. I believe that it's possible that the Aborigines may have highly valued these coins. Perhaps an influential member of their community collected them and passed them on to his heirs. The Aborigines have a strong appreciation for history, and it is conceivable that such a collection could have accumulated over many generations.

Thanks for the pointer. It's definitely thought provoking.

-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

the swahili coins could have been brought by austronesians sailing between madagascar and indonesia.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: DexterRiley

the swahili coins could have been brought by austronesians sailing between madagascar and indonesia.

Quite possible, but the Swahili did sailed to WS Asia and China to trade so anything is possible.

a reply to: Spider879


The Chinese explorer Zheng He made several voyages in that region in the early 1400's.

On at least one of his expeditions he visited the Swahili coast to trade. And on several of his journeys he visited Indonesia. So, it's possible that he may have been responsible for the earlier coins arriving in the region. But he was too early for the later dated coins.

-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

The list of candidates as to who was responsible, should also include the Indians they were key players in the Indian ocean trade....what a time to have been alive.

a reply to: Spider879

what a time to have been alive.

Yep. Except for that eunuch thing. I'd rather keep all my bits...


-dex

a reply to: harold223

No. I think people are misinformed at just how frequently people traveled around. In actuality, it's more likely that they knew about their surroundings than are given credit to them for.

a reply to: Spider879

But the swahili(bantu language family) followed routes pioneered by the Austronesians, after all they did reach madagascar well before the bantu speakers, but there is evidence that were there before the austronesians. And the austronesians sailed back and forth

a reply to: punkinworks10

I think they got their international sailing skills from the Arabs who discovered the wind flowed in opposite direction every three month, they built upon the design of the Arab dhow and followed them to the Asian markets competing directly with them.
The Austronesian end of the trade could have came from the more ancient spice trade...dang I need to do a thread about ancient trade network,for example the age of banana cultivation in east Africa goes back 4500 yrs ago doubling the age, of when they thought it was first introduced, by 2500 yrs ago it was firmly established in Cameroon.
The Banana originally a plant from New Guinea.
Hey maybe the Austronesians did kicked off the entire sea end of the trade before Persians, Arabs and the Swahili, not to mention the Johnny come lately Portuguese who ruined the old network.

a reply to: Spider879

...dang I need to do a thread about ancient trade network

That would be cool.

I'd like to know more about the ancient trade routes that are frequently ignored by conventional history.

It could help fill in a few blanks and provide some alternative perspectives on how these artifacts arrived where they did.

-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

I'd like to know more about the ancient trade routes that are frequently ignored by conventional history.

So would "conventional history." That's why "conventional" archeologists research that sort of thing.

a reply to: Phage

OK. So I said:

I'd like to know more about the ancient trade routes that are frequently ignored by conventional history.

How's this:
I'd like to know more about the history of the ancient trade routes. And how these theories are either supported or refuted by the best available archaeological and anthropological evidence. However, I reserve the right to consider alternative theories as well.

Is that better?

-dex

originally posted by: DexterRiley

I'd like to know more about the history of the ancient trade routes. And how these theories are either supported or refuted by the best available archaeological and anthropological evidence. However, I reserve the right to consider alternative theories as well.

-dex

It can't be that hard to find this out. Have you tried?
Probably a lot of material though. You should concentrate first on whatever region you're interested in and not try to learn everything about every known ancient trade route worldwide all at once.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: DexterRiley

I'd like to know more about the history of the ancient trade routes. And how these theories are either supported or refuted by the best available archaeological and anthropological evidence. However, I reserve the right to consider alternative theories as well.

-dex

It can't be that hard to find this out. Have you tried?
Probably a lot of material though. You should concentrate first on whatever region you're interested in and not try to learn everything about every known ancient trade route worldwide all at once.

Harte

Yep. I think that would take a lot of studying and research. But Spider879 already has some knowledge in this area and was considering starting a thread.

I was just signaling my interest in participating.


-dex

Al tho not ancient Egyptian, this article does suggest the Egyptians were trading in the vicinity of Australia prior to European explorers.

www.theguardian.com...

It mentions this discovery was made in 2014, so it might already be known to some--but its new to me.

a reply to: PBL666

Thanks for the link , news to me too, greatly appreciated, but as was said earlier, long distance trade in the Pacific was quite common place by then, but what a wonderful exotic gift from one ruler to another..

Oops dbl post..

originally posted by: PBL666
Al tho not ancient Egyptian, this article does suggest the Egyptians were trading in the vicinity of Australia prior to European explorers.

www.theguardian.com...

It mentions this discovery was made in 2014, so it might already be known to some--but its new to me.

Another thanks for posting I saw that article and was thinking of posting it in here, glad someone else saw it.

And yes, a cocky would of been a really special gift at that time. Imagine, the bird would have been the epitome of exotic. Plus Cocky's make fantastic pets, so smart. They have bonding instincts that work very well with human groups and they just have so much personality, even wild ones can be quite interactive with humans. Not to mention the fact they usually outlive their humans.

There seems to be more and more evidence arising in recent years of trade and contact with with the outside world and the Australian region. I remember reading an article recently of ruined structures in the coast of Arnhem Land that they think might have been built by the Macassans, i'll see if I can find it.

a reply to: harold223

My grandparents had a couple of pink and greys as pets, one was called George--until he layed an egg.

They lived northern wheatbelt in WA, so there is more up there than here in the city. I'm on the coast now so I see less these days, but I do keep an eye out for them when they do fly through.

OFF TOPIC: your username makes me think you are my sisters father-in-law.