Men nearly caused human extinction 7,000 years ago, new theory states

a reply to: Fowlerstoad

Opposite. Radiation limits female birth.

Less females less babies.

One dude can make 20 babies with 20 women.

20 dudes one woma can make 1 baby every 10 months.

a reply to: luthier

Hmm ... that is also intriguing

a reply to: oriondc

Ah I need to reread this. It was late last night.

a reply to: luthier

Wouldn't a drop in the female population create a drop in the male population?

There could have been a cultural bias in gender where a newborn is not taken care of and dies while the preferred gender has the advantage . Context rules the day and trying to re-intrepid it into a 21st century context with biases of their own can and will be misleading imo . Academia has a problem with the words " We don't know" because they are the experts and we demand they give us a answer . Its what we pay them to do much like politicians .

originally posted by: oriondc
a reply to: luthier

Generally yes, but the DNA evidence they're putting forward shows 1 mating male per 17 mating females. You can trace patrilineage (male ancestor) using chromosomal evidence. From that information alone are they leaping to this "men killed each other" conclusion.

Maybe men were going out hunting and getting toasted by the lack of ozone?

The fossil records are fairly limited.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: luthier

Wouldn't a drop in the female population create a drop in the male population?

There could have been a cultural bias in gender where a newborn is not taken care of and dies while the preferred gender has the advantage . Context rules the day and trying to re-intrepid it into a 21st century context with biases of their own can and will be misleading imo . Academia has a problem with the words " We don't know" because they are the experts and we demand they give us a answer . Its what we pay them to do much like politicians .

This is true. It is just a hypothesis though.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: luthier

it wasnt a cme, cmes dont kill, it was theoretically a comet.
and it was closer to 10600 bc geologically, ending around 9700
known as the Lesser Dryas Theory, took out the mega fauna, particularly in N.America

You're thinking of the Younger Dryas Event which indicates a global warming event. You could also use key words like "Clovis Comet" or "Black Matt" to find more information about an event that was thought to be part, or cause, of a mass extinction in the Americas. Personally I found it all to be quite fascinating.

The problem with an impact theory is lack of a crater and shocked quartz. Perhaps an air burst comet could do it or an impact on a thick ice sheet yet there is a lack of evidence. I found some interesting articles on the Clovis Comet and Carolina Bays some time ago and I trust more articles have come out since then. In short one theory has an impact on a miles think ice sheet that threw ice over several states on the East coast of North America which created the formations known as Carolina Bays. This theory does create more problems though.

a reply to: luthier

This piece may have some data to look at and consider ...

Archaeologists believe they have identified a new way of putting accurate dates to great events of prehistory. Rare and spectacular storms on the sun appear to have left their mark in forests and fields around the planet over the past 5,000 years. Michael Dee, of Oxford University’s research laboratory for archaeology and the history of art, thinks evidence of such solar storms could help put precise years to some of the great uncertainties of history: the construction of Egypt’s Great Pyramid of Giza, the collapse of the ancient Mayan civilisation in Central America, and perhaps even the arrival of the Vikings in the Americas.

www.theguardian.com... Hard to say what new studies have found about the past . But radiation could have been the culprit .

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: luthier

it wasnt a cme, cmes dont kill, it was theoretically a comet.
and it was closer to 10600 bc geologically, ending around 9700

A massive cme would certainly kill. There is no evidence of comet, while there is evidence of lightening. Like mass amounts of lightning.

Personally I think Anthony peratts work and goblieki tempe are a pretty good indication something went wrong and there was a civilization back then. Could it be a comet sure. But a a massive cme would create lightning like rain and massive radiation the ozone layer would be severely destroyed. This is starting to be uncovered in ice core samples.


It would also explain why this is found all over.

A CME would be a one time short lived event. What Anthony Peratt claims in theory was an event that lasted decades or longer, perhaps centuries, and that there were witnesses to this event.

He stated that an increase in solar output of 1 to 2 orders or magnitude would have a dramatic change on Earth's magnetosphere. Earth's Aurorae would have been seen at much lower latitudes down almost to the Equator and the shapes would be quite different creating many different shapes and colors depending on the location of the observer.

Something else I found interesting is that this would also have effected Venus' atmosphere which would certainly have caused a dramatic increase in its ion tail which presently nearly touches Earth during solar transit.

a reply to: 727Sky

After a period of some 2,000 years of decline, there was only one fertile male left alive to mate with every 17 women.

I knew it was called the 'good old days' for a reason...

a reply to: luthier

Yeah, it's possible. There is evidence of extensive underground tunneling and long-term living spaces in such areas as Derinkuyu in what is now Turkey. You wouldn't go underground to escape anything like a flood (water goes down) but to get away from something else. There could be many other installations like this that remain undiscovered or that have collapsed over the centuries.

I've seen other theories put forward about "genetic bottlenecks" and I find it really fascinating. Using DNA gives us some hard data to look at and extrapolate from, but again, the theories put forward tend to take on a political bent depending on funding needs, attention needs (from media) etc.

it would be great if only 1 in 17 men could procreate. no one dies, but nice safe depopulation.
like i wish i could make all the rats infertile. damn i litterally saw rats the size of cats on 34th street in manhattan the other night. they truly are massive over here.

i do not want anything 'dead' but damn it would be awesome if they just stopped having baby rats.

I'll just leave this here.

personal.eunet.fi...
very interesting compliation of stuff.

And then there is this,

Originally identified in buried soils of Northern Syria on the basis of distinctive facies
anomalies produced by windstorms of unprecedented high energy, the 4 kyr BP (4.2
ka BP cal. BP) dust event is often commonly presented as the greatest historically
recorded drought of the Holocene. The related dust spikes traced in the Gulf of Oman,
in the Andes glaciers and in the Kilimanjaro ice sheet are currently interpreted as a
300 years persisting aridity with drastic effects on civilizations across the Middle-
East and Asia. Systematic investigations on soils, archaeological sediments, lacustrine
and marine records across the Northern and Southern hemispheres have leaded us to
propose the alternative explanation of an impact-event. The results obtained are here
summarized in order to further explain how impact-linked processes have resulted into
a unique dust event that shows confusing resemblance to a climate-triggered drought.

These results consolidate the originality of the 4 kyr BP dust event, reflected by its
instantaneous initiation, its widespread occurrence and complex structure at regional
scales in terms of intensity and duration. The vertical dispersion of the impact debris
due to settling conditions at great water depth and subsequent reworking by bottom
currents gives the erroneous impression in deep-sea cores of a long-lasting event, although
the exact fall of the impact-debris flow was most likely not exceeding a few
days. In addition, the high resolution records in terrestrial settings has allowed to identify
fall of the impact fine aerosols loaded in the upper atmosphere, and later washed
by rains in the following months.

www.dropbox.com...


Oh, and this

Identifying the adaptation of hunter-gatherer communities to particular situations that provided natural resources
is a major concern for multidisciplinary team studying archaeological contexts. This challenge is illustrated in
the desertic El Kowm basin in central Syria by data from Hummal and El Kowm Paleolithic sites. The sites
form prominent mounds at artesian springs resulting from recurrent episodes of lacustrine, limnic and aeolian
sedimentation in pseudo-karstic depressions. The few meter sequences provide semi-continuous succession of archaeological
levels from the Oldest Palaeolithic (Oldowan) to the early Neolithic period. This long term continuity
of occupation is partly due to attracting conditions due to the profusion of water from epithermal artesian wells
during periods of high water recharge. In addition, we document here the unique potential of this endoreic basin
to have accumulated singular fossil combustible of high energy value during particular environmental episodes.
The latter are represented by the recurrence of distinctive black organogenic facies showing a contrasting micro
stratification formed of interlayered grey calcareous silty clay, dark brown organic rich clay and dull orange clay.
Spatial excavation has shown the unique preservation of Palaeolithic occupation surfaces in association to the
microstratified facies. High resolution sampling and multi-proxy analysis have allowed explaining the formation of
the microstratified facies from rapid changes of environmental conditions in response to contrasting fluctuations of
atmospheric dust loading, precipitation events, rainwater quality and evapotranspiration. Organogenic microfacies
formed at different time periods share common compositional assemblage and structural behaviour: occurrence of
exotic fine sand-sized debris formed of metal-rich carbonaceous components with polymer, fine charcoal, vitrous
carbon, carbon fibres, and exotic rock clasts with a metal-rich carbonaceous coating; highly stable microstructure
and low wettability. Based on their analytical properties, the carbonaceous polymorphs and the associated mineral
components are shown to deriving from fossil combustible of stratospheric origin. The comparison with modern
analogues (cf. Courty et al., 2012) has provided keys to explaining the organogenic microfacies from accumulation
episodes of exotic stratospheric aerosols in response to serial meteor explosion at high altitude. Geogenic markers
and microfacies pattern show four situations: (1) nearly intact ancient surfaces with pulverized carbonaceous
composite debris that trace the local effects of meteor explosion ; (2) secondary concentrations expressing
accumulation of stratospheric aerosols from the heavy rainfall events subsequent to the meteor explosions; (3)
relictual concentrations resulting from selective accumulation of the most resistant components by chemical and
physical erosion along to the fossilization; (4) human-controlled concentrations of the unusual debris indicating
intentional collect, use and transformation of the singular fossil combustible and related materials. Ancient
humans are thus suggested to have regularly exploited the local sources of the singular fossil combustible that
formed during episodes of serial cosmic explosions. The direct effect of increased atmospheric dust loading on
precipitation regime explains the apparent synchrony between occupation phases and local climate changes. These
are simply two distinctive responses to a common cause.
Courty, Benoît and Vaillant (2012). Possible interaction of meteor explosion with stratospheric aerosols on cloud
nucleation based on 2011 observations. Geophysical Research Abstracts Vol. 14, EGU2012.

www.dropbox.com...

Then there is Bailley,

Given that our starting point was an earthly event deduced
from tree rings, how might we explain the fact that
much of the associated »235o BC« material shares hints of
things falling out of the sky? Here it is necessary to look at
some science. There exists a body of research by some astronomers
suggesting that within the past 2o ooo years, a giant
comet, possibly many tens of kilometres in size, was injected
into the inner solar system and underwent a progressive
series of disintegrations, resulting in the broad stream
of cometary debris which makes up the Taurid meteor complex
observed today (Bailey et al. 199o; Asher et al. 1994).
Indeed, these astronomers believe, on the basis of tracking
back meteor orbits, that at least one major fragmentation
event within this comet complex occurred in the 3rd millennium
BC, prior to 235o BC2. They believe it quite likely that
the Earth may have been subjected to significant bombardment
in the 3rd millennium BC.

www.dropbox.com...

And Dienekes blog hit at the early bronze age Y dna bottle neck, where nearly all of the populations sampled have population minimums around 4.2 kya.
One thing to remeber about genteics based date data, they are based on mutation rates, which are not set in stone. So depending on the mutation rate used in the particular study genetic dating can and does vary widely.
The physical evience is clear that something world wide happened approx 4500-4800 years ago, and that it was part of a longer series of events than may have lasted for several millenia of the neolithic.

Another good vid with data

In the spirit of later bronze age collapse

a reply to: punkinworks10

I'm sorry. My eyes glazed over halfway through that.

a reply to: toms54

I love electric universe more than most people. This situation simply does not describe the cataclysmic event. It happened over the course of 2000 years and ended up with 1 male for 17 females. Read the source material

The only thing that accounts for this is warfare. Also slavery, harems, and possibly cannibalism. We know population like the Mycenaeans were cannibalistic. You never see pictures of cannibals eating women.

I envision a slow descent into savagery over the course of 2 millennia. Maybe this is why the Mycenaeans were replaced by the Minoans. The time frame might not match 5000 bc-3000bc but the pattern still holds.

At any rate, we're looking at at slow degeneration over 2000 years not a sudden event.

originally posted by: punkinworks10
In the spirit of later bronze age collapse

Aren't we discussing 5000-6000 bp neolithic?

a reply to: toms54

toms54,
My post touches on one aspect of y dna bottlenecking during the mid holocene.
First off, U admit that I didnt thouroughly read the original sourced work before I ran my mouth.
But I am certain the study referenced in the article, is itself referencing a set of papers from a couple of years ago that show strong y dna bottlenecking
in the early bronze age.
In one study, 15 of 17 eurasian and north african populations sampled show absolute population minimums around 4200 kya. Similarly there is an extreme bottle neck in northeast asian males, as well as hints of the same in the new world.
It just so happens that there us a well know downturn in climate at the same period the 4.2 kiloyear event.
Baillies latest paper, he is a well respected dendrochronologist and climate reasercher, shows that the 4.2 kye is strongly correlated with another downturn 2-1/2 centuries earlier, and both are part of a 37 year cycle of climate anomolies that exists in the mid 3rd millenium.
This btings me to Courty, M.A. Courty is a geo-chemist that has made a career of studying ancient soils in an archeaological context, specializing in Mesopotamia.
In the 70's-80's work in Syria and northern Iraq showed that a long term drought hit the region right at the time of the fall of akkad, 2200bc ish.
Several sites showed that evidence of extreme wild land fires and destruction by fire of Akkadian settlements in northern Syria.
Wiess and Courty found that the 2200bc episode was the latest in several that show up in the regions record, ultimately going back to the 12,900 bc event.
What they found was episodic placement of coluvial wash, it rained a viscous char of amorphorous carbon, charcoal and pulverized local minerals, after local scrub lands had burned. And the carbon deposits were so thick that for several generations after each episode, the local people collected this carbon and used it in cooking fires in place of wood.
In the last episode ,detailed at tel-leilan syria, the mix also contained pulverized building materials.
People didnt return to Tel Leilan for 200 years.

Its pretty clear that there was major climatological
disruption in the mid holocene, and that disruption set people on the move and that led to conflict
between groups as in the OP's premise.
Climate put the early indo-europeans/iranians on the move into new territories, and with the IE, they clearly purposefully practiced ethnic thinning of males.
At site after site in europe, the IE kill entire commumities, save young women. And it DNA sudies of early EI communities all the males within 200 miles are directley related, yet none of the females are related to each others lines in the same area.