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UFOs, not Aliens: The Difference and Why it Matters.

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posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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Thought this was quite a refreshing vid about the UFO subject stating that the defining of UFOs as "alien" is inherently contradictory, presumptuous and unscientific - it also proposes that doing so prejudices the many other explanations for UFO data and opens the door for armchair debunkers who have never even bothered to study it.






In English-language media, we're accustomed to using the terms, "UFO" and "Alien" interchangeably. While this may seem harmless enough, it is detrimental to a focused, data-conscious debate on UFOs. Here is why.




Don't know how other members feel about the argument that 'in order to achieve a more focused, data conscious debate on UFOs we must dissociate the subject from extra-terrestrial life and bring our attention back to the evidence' but Jose Antonio Caravaca's new article below also echoes some of the same sentiments and lists 'seven thoughtful insights that are worthy of discussion.'.




The following aspects that we are going to list appear in almost every classic book you have read about UFOs, but obviously no researcher has pointed out their obvious disparity and counterpoint to extraterrestrial theses:


1.- From the first to the last page of many ufological books, it is clear that there are infinite different types of flying saucers and occupants. As diverse and picturesque as they are different, they are witnesses to each other. Have you looked at the number of different aliens that appear on the pages of these books?  Why didn't any researcher distrust this issue? Is it possible we were being visited by a legion of alien races? Why so many kinds of UFOs, different in size and shape? 


2.- Before the study of the same facts; proximity of a UFO, landing on a soft ground, impact of a light on the witness, etc., the same effects, tracks, traces or injuries were not recorded, why? That is, sometimes UFOs leave traces and sometimes they do not (even if it is the same type of terrain). Sometimes they cause electromagnetic interference in cars and electrical appliances and sometimes they do not (even though the distance to the UFO is the same for vehicles). Sometimes they cause harm to people and sometimes they do not (even if they are exposed to the same factors). 
Therefore, it is very obvious that the effects caused by the interaction with the phenomenon are produced by causes other than the simple presence sine qua non of the paradigm in front of the witness. Otherwise, these different consequences would occur as long as we had the same factors in play.


3.- Another circumstance that is very clear, after reading dozens of books, is that UFO cases are not connected to each other. We cannot follow or weave a plot that leads us to a single great common history. The only thing UFO events share is their basic structure. The witness will report: 1. that he has seen a "thing" flying in the sky, 2. later, that this "thing" has landed, and 3. from this "thing" some beings have descended. But, incomprehensibly, these aspects, which should have greater homogeneity, are highly malleable and in each case, the elements "thing" and "beings" will be surprisingly different in size, shape and colors. And this has been noted in an overwhelming and revealing way, why has this particular fact not given rise to more debate?


4.- The behaviour of the occupants of the flying saucers is absurd and lacking in logic. And this does not happen because, as most scholars explain, we are incapable of interpreting or elucidating the actions of an advanced civilization in millions of years of evolution. Let's not be fooled. Simply put, the actions of the ufonauts are a set of nonsense, one after the other. The actions developed by extraterrestrials are very similar to those recorded in dream experiences. Therefore, all the gratuitous and unsubstantiated speculation about the absurd factor, an important key for many researchers of something sublime and extraordinary inserted inside the UFO encounters, is wrong. These circumstances are due to an effect caused by the interaction/communication of the witness's unconscious with an unknown external agent, which creates a projection following similar processes of creativity to that displayed by our psyche during the sleep phases. And we all know that dream experiences are signified by their absurd character...


5.- The information obtained from the "extraterrestrials" is a compendium of nonsense and, at best, the witness's own knowledge, "distorted" by the paradigm (the external agent). After decades of analyzing the communications of the alleged aliens, there has been no evidence of any truly novel knowledge, either at the scientific, philosophical, social or religious level.


6.- UFO crews do not influence or manipulate large sectors of society. Although it is insisted that the ufonauts interfere with our belief systems and act as a sort of spiritual catalyst, all of this takes place in a very small setting, and has more to do with how witnesses, let alone everyone else, react to these phenomena than in other circumstances.


7.- The UFO phenomenon does not adapt to society by changing its external appearance over time. It does not use any kind of sublime psychic camouflage. Simply put, the staging we observe has to be synchronous with the advances, thoughts, beliefs or myths of the time.


Conclusion:

All these factors indicated, practically since the late 1950s, that the witness was a vital and substantial part of understanding and decoding the meaning and nature of close encounters with UFOs. However, most researchers have chosen to ignore all of these signals and continue to speculate free of charge, far removed from the casuistry they had in their hands. It should be borne in mind that in subsequent years the incidents only corroborated these initial assessments of the first reports recorded by the UFO pioneers research.


Link



Whatever the answer to UFO origin (and as also stated in the above vid) there have been numerous worldwide government studies and investigations into Unidentified Flying Objects attempting to provide explanations for the true nature of unexplained report percentages(link) and there's a comprehensive presentation about the subject below by Alejandro Rojas.






Governments around the world have felt compelled to act on credible UFO sightings. The United States, Great Britain and France have had official UFO investigation departments, and have released thousands of files.

What many do not know is that France and several South American countries currently have active official government and/or military UFO research organizations. We will examine these organizations, past and present, and the amazing UFO cases that have prompted their creation.

edit on 1-6-2018 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: karl 12

I think...more so than distinguishing between UFO and alien....what would actually help the cause of Ufo research is if some mother#ers could actually take some pictures that weren't clearly bull#....



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 04:42 PM
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I figure what we see as UFO’s is probably our military air and space craft that hasn’t gone public yet. Imagine, just imagine if the tech that hasn’t been released to the public is 25 or 30 years ahead of the F-35, well it would look almost like magic.

Or perhaps I’m wrong, and it’s little gray men.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 05:24 PM
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Every jumbo jet you've ever seen uses ANTI GRAVITY TECHNOLOGY since ww2



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: dug88
a reply to: karl 12

I think...more so than distinguishing between UFO and alien....what would actually help the cause of Ufo research is if some mother#ers could actually take some pictures that weren't clearly bull#....


I think most of what you are saying is right, but the reason would be to discredit the UFO sighting if these exist.

I have always said on ATS that I think UFO's exist and the Governments of the world own them. Probably both sides trying to win the Cold war by surprising the enemy with them.

A secret UFO type program would help explain where so much defense spending went that is literally in the trillions of dollars in the US alone that the IG can't explain where it was or is after the Defense dept received their budget allotments.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: Protricity2k
Every jumbo jet you've ever seen uses ANTI GRAVITY TECHNOLOGY since ww2


Maybe so, when you consider an antigrav device would need energy to be able to attenuate a magnetic field. That can't be free energy can it? Yes, if we're going to speculate about this fantastic idea of UFO's being real.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: dug88
a reply to: Nickn3
They do get a picture once in a while, like this picture Chris Mellon showed at a TTSA presentation allegedly associated with the Nimitz UFO which "defied the laws of physics", and he said it's obviously not US technology, so whose is it? He's right that it wasn't US tech, hovering there without any apparent exhaust or propulsion.

www.express.co.uk...


I tried telling people on ATS that was a balloon, but some people just didn't buy it, even George Knapp uncritically copied this obvious balloon image to his report of the TTSA story. Then someone tracked down the actual source of the photo, who took it and what date, and confirmed it was a balloon:

Tom DeLonge Group stunningly debunked

So it was a balloon and To the stars academy eventually issued an apology for showing a photo of a balloon and claiming or at least implying it was a UFO that defied the laws of physics.

So if this can happen and I can't even convince people that the photo of the balloon is a balloon, it starts to give more credibility to the old joke air force chart showing pictures of many different UFO shapes and explaining them all as a balloon. OK UFOs aren't all balloons (except maybe in Mexico where it seems maybe they are LOL), but we definitely need a lot more skepticism and critical thinking in this field.

I suspect Tom DeLonge didn't know it was a balloon, since despite his supposed avid interest in UFOs, he seems to know practically nothing about them. Chris Mellon perhaps knew it was a balloon, where he and the intelligence community had an agenda to discredit the UFO field (which is somewhat counter to TTSA trying to raise $5 million in a stock offering based on UFO stuff). It makes some sense that if they can get people thinking all UFOs are bunk, people will pay less attention to future UFO reports when they actually are of advanced US technology that they don't want drawing attention, and would rather have such sightings dismissed as more misidentification.

None of the UFO evidence I've seen really points to anything alien, unless you count hoaxes like the Roswell autopsy and the mummified child in the museum who was supposed to be an alien.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson summed it up this way. "If you don't know what it is, that's where the conversation should end. You don't say "I don't know what it was, therefore it must be alien' " which is exactly what a lot of people seem to do. Then they add some made up reason it couldn't be from earth without having the secret classifications needed to know what technology exists on earth in secret programs at skunk works etc.

In the case of the video released by TTSA, at least the pilots acknowledged the UFO could be from earth when they called it "a drone".

I'd love to see video of a UFO defying the laws of physics. Many people make this claim but there's never any video, and excuses have run out now that billions have smartphones they can use to make videos. The pilot Chris Mellon talked about (David Fravor) had a sophisticated camera system right there with him, when he said he saw something he claims defied the laws of physics, but did he bother to turn on the camera with the flick of a switch? No. It might have helped his credibility if he had, because apparently he was the target of ridicule by other pilots for his claim.

edit on 201861 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 05:45 PM
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originally posted by: Nickn3
I figure what we see as UFO’s is probably our military air and space craft that hasn’t gone public yet. Imagine, just imagine if the tech that hasn’t been released to the public is 25 or 30 years ahead of the F-35, well it would look almost like magic.

Or perhaps I’m wrong, and it’s little gray men.


There was stuff flying around almost 75 years ago that makes the F-35 (and ALL military technology that has ever been publicly revealed) look like a shopping cart with three bad wheels.

Somehow that fact fails to mesh with the idea that these are secret military craft.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: BiffWellington

originally posted by: Nickn3
I figure what we see as UFO’s is probably our military air and space craft that hasn’t gone public yet. Imagine, just imagine if the tech that hasn’t been released to the public is 25 or 30 years ahead of the F-35, well it would look almost like magic.

Or perhaps I’m wrong, and it’s little gray men.


There was stuff flying around almost 75 years ago that makes the F-35 (and ALL military technology that has ever been publicly revealed) look like a shopping cart with three bad wheels.

Somehow that fact fails to mesh with the idea that these are secret military craft.



But having personally seen what was Top Secret at the time, I learned we are always literally years ahead of anything on the street. It was surreal, and like James Bond meeting Q for his special toys to use in the next assignment. So, I expect we DO have UFO tech and we got it from the "Nazi Bell" discovery IMO.
edit on 1-6-2018 by Justoneman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: karl 12

Tbh it sounds like the goal there is to shut out regarding a possibility of e.t. involvement in Earthly affairs and subsequent presence in our atmosphere with flying vehicles.

Seems just like the 1950s - 1970s protocol of "keep it cool" and basically deny it all to the death. I mean come on the amount of strict, tight lipped attitudes and outright denial with a bizarre, almost hostile fervor is such a bloody red flag.

Then there are the millions of people throughout human history talking about the things theyve seen and experienced regarding unidentified craft of all sorts and beings that are not human, abduction, etc.

Nah. Theyre all experiencing the same hallucinations and delusions or theyre just liars.

Beyond that I can say confidently that its all just swamp farts and weather sharts.

Case closed!




ps: Obviously im being sarcastic, however, if there is e.t. involvement on Earth, whether it be traveling in our skies all the way to direct interaction with life here, it would seem to imply that whatever secrecy and cover up is not only the doing of governments, but by the relevant visitors as well.

Combine that with stories of abduction and erasing of memory, it should be patently obvious that, if there is truth to the e.t. hypothesis, they do not want to be revealed, at least for now.

For what reasons, im sure there could be many. Whether nefarious or not, from our perspective, remains to be seen.



edit on 612018 by CreationBro because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 09:22 PM
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I believe few, if any UFOs have much to do with aliens from other planets. As one of the quotes above say, the behavior of the 'pilots' makes no sense. If these were aliens, you'd think there would be a pattern of appearance and behavior.

One's own psyche seems to have a lot to do with the appearance and actions of the objects and crew. I lean towards a dimensional explanation, with the ability to influence and/or project our thoughts and memories. All this stuff happens on Skinwalker Ranch, and it seems to have an intelligence behind it that delights in messing with us and avoiding and real detection



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 10:28 PM
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I have seen several different types of Humanoids...and been on several types of ships and also been off-planet....I remember a lot of my experiences and now many years later the greater majority of those experiences fit seamlessly into a template which I am almost finished building.

I do not wish to be disrespectful or come across the wrong ways....but come on people....obviously these craft are simply technology....I can understand people in the Dark Ages accepting and endorsing this BS where we all seem to give these craft some supernatural aura.....but ever since the Wright Brothers there has been no acceptable FIRST ANALOGY other than it is simply higher technology than we have mainstream and is owned and run by Humans.Anything else would seem contrived to me.

You know oftentimes the most simple answer is the correct answer.

Of course these are in the majority people operating these craft ...humanity....different races but all humanoid....there may be non-humanoid life in the Universe that is intelligent sentient and self-aware like we are but I have my doubts.....I believe Universal life always evolves towards a humanoid form...everywhere.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 10:58 PM
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I saw this brought up by those studying the Hessdalen lights, they couldnt use the alien word b/c of the scientific taboo.

If you want to placate the skeptics with kid gloves to get govt/private funding, makes sense to me.

But to anyone thinking about the subject, there are only so many possibilities. Super natural, natural, aliens, military, or the truly ridiculous - time travelers.

If some of the good sightings like Levelland, Westall , Colares , Hudson Valley, or Belgium are all just military sightings - so be it. But if they arent us, its only reasonable to assume they are alien. Its just insulting peoples intelligence to say otherwise.

I think the real problem with the subject is lack of interest/apathy. We can debate whether Hudson Valley was military or alien, but the real question is shouldnt we really know? It was a mass sighting, anyone who is familiar with the case knows something was there. Why didnt the public/media demand to know what was flying over public airspace ? Just like the 20 trillion dollar national debt, not enough people care.



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 02:33 AM
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originally posted by: Arbitrageur
Neil DeGrasse Tyson summed it up this way. "If you don't know what it is, that's where the conversation should end. You don't say "I don't know what it was, therefore it must be alien' "


BINGO.
Many UFO proponents are far too eager to call something anomalous without following the proper procedure of elimination. You begin with an Earthly grounded explanation first and work your way from there. Far too many see a video of an object making strange movements and convince themselves this has to be some type of spacecraft. They're doing this with absolutely no foundation to build that theory upon. As you said, where the evidence in the history of the phenomenon that shows this to be a realistic suggestion? There's a lot of mocking of those calling UFOs balloons, but how many times has this actually been the case? Many times. In comparison, how many times have we seen a genuine UFO video? Zero.

When you have someone like Tom DeLonge so eagerly jumping on the gravity defying bandwagon, his credibility drops even further. It shows his mindset.



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 03:06 AM
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With genuine respect to our OP for a great thread
I differ in opinion .
If we are being visited the ET hypothesis is
by far the most reasonable.
Beings from another dimension or an unknown
advanced civilization that’s always been here,
those require the stretch to believe.

It became popular to go against
the ETH as of late but in my own opinion
it’s still the best option. We are beings on a planet
with 115 years of nuts and bolts aeronautical experience
and NASA has recently began the earnest work of figuring
out a warp drive. Normal nearby intelligent civilizations with even
a short 500 year head start may be bending space
to achieve interstellar distances.



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 03:20 AM
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Appreciate the replies and interesting points raised - certainly don't want to insult people's intelligence but I don't think anything is 'patiently obvious' when it comes to speculating about UFO origin (nothing is self evident and we can assume nothing).

That aside, I really can't see any sane, objective (and agenda free) person objecting to 'a more focused, data conscious debate on UFOs' and also really do respect the South American countries approach to UFO investigation as descibed in the second video (which seems far more responsible and mature than in the US and UK).

When it comes to UFOs then sure there are some common patterns in behaviour observed like pendulum motion, EM effects, water collection, solid light, colour change during acceleration etc and Doc Hynek also makes some astute points in the interview below but I'd say we're all still as clueless about origin now as we were back in the 1940's.



.


'three incontrovertible points that even the grossest sceptic can't ignore' - one, that UFO reports not only exist but persist; two, that the phenomenon is global in nature (over 140 countries) and three, that many UFO reports come from highly credible and technically trained people'



a reply to: vlawde

Some fair points there mate and below are two more relevant vids about the thread subject concerning Jacques Vallee.





This radio interview and SkyFloating"s thread below are also well worth a look.

Alien Abduction: An Astral Phenomenon?

Cheers.
edit on 2-6-2018 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: 111DPKING111

Colares truly is a fascinating case mate and let's hope one day the authorities actually release the 16 hours of footage and 390 photographs taken by the military.


See 35:40



Brazilian Ministry of Defense - Official Meeting With UFO Researchers.



Plenty of other examples of UFO photography being withheld, missing, stolen, destroyed or confiscated here for the member using the swearwords.
edit on 3-6-2018 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 04:21 AM
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a reply to: Ectoplasm8

I've got a lot of respect for Neil DeGrasse Tyson in his chosen field - also with other people like Seth Shostak, Bill Nye and even Michael Shermer - the thing is when it comes to discussing the UFO subject they are completely (and wilfully) ignorant of the information collated on the subject - this is also touched upon in the main video.

Here are some relevant statements by Dr Peter Sturrock although there are plenty more out there.



"Most scientists have never had the occasion to confront evidence concerning the UFO phenomenon. To a scientist, the main source of hard information (other than his own experiments' observations) is provided by the scientific journals. With rare exceptions, scientific journals do not publish reports of UFO observations. The decision not to publish is made by the editor acting on the advice of reviewers. This process is self-reinforcing: the apparent lack of data confirms the view that there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon, and this view (prejudice) works against the presentation of relevant data."
Peter A. Sturrock, "An Analysis of the Condon Report on the Colorado UFO Project," Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol.1, No.1, 1987


"The definitive resolution of the UFO enigma will not come about unless and until the problem is subjected to open and extensive scientific study by the normal procedures of established science.
In their public statements (but not necessarily in their private statements), scientists express a generally negative attitude towards the UFO
problem, and it is interesting to try to understand this attitude. Most scientists have never had the occasion to confront evidence concerning the UFO phenomenon.”
Dr. Peter A. Sturrock, Professor of Space Science and Astrophysics and Deputy Director of the Center for Space Sciences and Astrophysics at Stanford University (Survey of American Astronomical Society)

Do Your Homework Before Entering UFO Fray

edit on 2-6-2018 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 07:44 AM
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Hi Karl. Glad to see you are still around mate.

RE: a more focused, data conscious debate on UFOs.

Yes there have already been attempts as we well know.

The military authorities have conducted their own UFO studies down the years. From Project Sign to AATIP and the official stance seems to be it was all a waste of time because UFOs are not of defence significance. Perhaps they aren't the right people to be conducting the studies of course for obvious reasons.

I think the major problem in studying UFOs is how do you decide what data to collect and study. Eye witness testimony can be unreliable. We can easily misinterpret any object in the sky as being unidentified due to a number of factors including belief systems. So do we filter out single witness lights in the sky sightings? Do we only accept cases where there is trace evidence or radar returns?

You accept every eye witness report at the risk of collating a lot of mainly useless data. But if you ignore it you could be missing crucial information. I'm thinking of the Alan Godfrey case in the UK in 1980. It's a single witness case but very mysterious.

Then we have civilian efforts like Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center. Whilst I applaud Peter's efforts and dedication to his work I am puzzled by what he actually does with the data other than collect it? He's a virtual one man team so why not ask for volunteers to help him study and crunch the data?

MUFON, despite their resources and mission statements, seem to have embraced the 'commercialization' of Ufology and introduced very sci-fi like elements as part of their conferences. There are also many famous faces in the UFO world who you hear on radio shows, see on TV and make appearances at conferences promoting their latest theories and books in the same boat.There is no real attempt to 'solve' the UFO mystery only talk endlessly about it.
Once you become financially locked into the UFOtainment circus then your modus operandi becomes one of preserving the status quo or you are out of a job and will have to find a new one.

Now there seems a growing trend to claim that 'consciousness' is a factor to explain why some people see nothing and others are special people who are 'antennas' that attract UFOs. Supposedly they tell their story, get tested for certain biological markers and woo-hoo it's a dream come true, literally. Or is it just an attempt to make things none falsifiable in the field and harvest test subjects for other reasons?

In summary what I am saying is that there have been various studies down the years. None of which have ever come up with satisfactory answers. Even Hessdalen as mentioned above, which is a study in a very specific area, has so far turned up anything definitive as to what is going there after 30+ years. (Although Hessdalen is a very low budget affair). Given enough time and resources we'd probably find there are multiple answers. But who is going to provide those resources?



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 08:49 AM
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UFOs are a product of Religious writings...

UFOs and Apparitions are made of the same 'stuff' : ap·pa·ri·tion-> the appearance of something remarkable or unexpected,

UFO/Apparition = a self reinforcing circle/cycle placed into our human mind, probably at the neural network creation level...

probably associated with:
Hippocampus Functions. The hippocampus is a small organ located within the brain's medial temporal lobe and forms an important part of the limbic system, the region that regulates emotions. The hippocampus is associated mainly with memory, in particular long-term memory. The organ also plays an important role in spatial navigation.


probably also a place where UFOs are generated:

Amygdala
The amygdala is one of two cherry d-shaped groups of nuclei located deep and medially within the temporal lobes of the brain in complex vertebrates, including humans. Shown in research to perform a primary role in the processing of memory, decision-making and emotional responses, the amygdalae are considered part of the limbic system.


** both organs are outposts of our Limbic System...the primal center of our personhood... when man was rewired by the gods, they inserted a 'AWE' component into our sensory systems which is reinforced by all the major religion's in the world that another 'place' & other 'beings' exist beyond here
edit on nd30152795013302352018 by St Udio because: (no reason given)




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