The Real College 'Scam'

I'm surprised this thread didn't get more mileage than it did, it's a really good theme.

It's telling. Nobody wants to admit what you have exposed; it's a hard message.

Sad, and telling.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

the old paradigms are not falling easy

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Edumakated
A big problem is that socially and culturally, we look down on non-professional jobs. Every parent wants their kid to be in some white collar profession. That is why the emphasis on college, even for kids who clearly don't have the aptitude for it.

Because those are the only jobs that have a future. At the company I work for, on the products we make that actually deliver a substantial profit, to be a repair technician you need a phd in biology or chemistry at a minimum. The same holds true for being a factory worker.

Knowing how to do the regular tech work to service a machine is considered a totally irrelevant skill that anybody with two brain cells can learn. We would instead rather hire people who know what the machine is actually doing.

We still need plumbers, HVAC, electricians, carpenters, chefs, other construction workers, landscapers, barbers, auto mechanics, etc.

A big problem we have now is that too many people have ZERO marketable skills. Not only are they not qualified for jobs that typically take a college degree, but they also have no trade skills.

I see people like this all the time in the hood. There isn't sh*t they can do to earn a living other than pick up trash for the most part. They have no skills. None.

We need to get over this fantasy that everyone needs to go to college. It is lowering the value of a college degree and it we are leading people down a path of debt slavery for not good reason.

The only reason people are so hung up on going to college is because the are led to believe it will provide a higher standard of living (I.e., make more money). You can get a job where you don't have to get your hands dirty.

a reply to: Edumakated

Those jobs should self regulate, fewer people enter the profession, and wages rise. Eventually they'll become a more attractive option. What does it say about those jobs career prospects that they currently can't compete?

a reply to: Aazadan

no one wants those jobs for a reason, the entry level pay is very low, I think most start somewhere around $14 an hour, you don't get benefits until you have been on the job for x amount of hours

once you make rate it's harder to find a job because contractors hire as few journeymen as possible and only keep a skeleton crew of full rate guys around while hiring/ firing apprentices at will

not all it's cracked up to be, ton of politics too

someone asked me if I wanted to join their union crew, a company I do a lot of residential work for they need more union guys but the union wants me to start at $14 an hour and work my way up to journeymen, yeah I'll take a huge paycut for that, you end making like $300-350 a week at that rate and its hard work

a reply to: toysforadults

What you just described is typical at all companies. This is why it's so important to have leverage when negotiating. This is the biggest mistake I think people make when job searching, they ask for a job and accept what's offered. They don't do anything above and beyond that the employer looks for.

In a typical job offer you have two pieces of leverage, your ability to say no and walk away, and your ability to offer a unique talent that demands bette compensation.

The first one is easy, never go into a job offer with that being your only job. Always have a job you're happy with, and preferably two competing offers. This way you can get your employers into a bidding war to hire you rather than depressing wages since you have no other options.

The second one is a bit harder, because it relies on you having a rare ability and your employer understanding the value of that ability but working conditions improve drastically when you can do it.

a reply to: Aazadan

I agree, the biggest problem we have is people accepting less, we don't need unions for leverage we need to decide on core principles and adhere to them

a reply to: Gargoyle91
Sorry, but I know several pastors that still have to have a regular job to keep a roof over their heads and food in the ffamily's stomach. One drives a bus, one works in the family exterminating business, one is a security guard. They all are in small local churches with small congregations.

Those big prosperity preaching con artist only teach about the love of money and worship the God of money. Small local pastors don't make big money.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Aazadan

I agree, the biggest problem we have is people accepting less, we don't need unions for leverage we need to decide on core principles and adhere to them

I'm not so sure about that. Unions have their place, but I don't think each industry should be purely union or non union. I think that the threat of the occasional union is a good way to make employers competitive without placing every business under union control.

For example, I know the casino gaming industry really, really well. Typically the unions at casinos are broken up between security, hotel, and floor people, I've never heard of a management union in that industry. Between these three groups, the average is that one of them will be union in each casino, but of course that means some are all union and some are totally union free. The result of this is that every one of those groups in every casino offers union level perks, because that's what is necessary to be competitive. However, it also prevents the unions from getting enough power to ever fully take control and become bad for everyone involved.

To give another example, we all like to complain about Walmarts treatment of lower level employees. The company also has enough power that they're going to be able to block a union. However, if we had a couple good retail unions throughout the country that could threaten to lure away prospective employees, that would cause Walmart to change employee policy without them necessarily having to go union, or without relying on flimsy ideas like consumer purchasing power to dictate internal policy.