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originally posted by: continuousThunder
given that twenty minutes ago you were on an unhinged rant about trans people releasing deadly chemicals into the water and buying off the silence of doctors i find it stretches credibility somewhat that you could now be asking these questions in earnest as an honest way to understand.... however...
i will give you the benefit of a doubt...
...and give you this little illustrative anecdote i've used around here a few times that seems to help people get it;
i think of hormones as being a lot like the oil in your car. you can run an unleaded tank on diesel and it won't immediately explode. It won't be a happy engine by any respect but it will continue to work after a fashion.
Similarly, my body never felt right in my entire life. Even before i knew that trans was a thing and that i could be it, i felt deeply and innately wrong. When i finally summoned the courage to transition and got my body running on the right oil, everything fell right into place and has felt consistently and increasingly right ever since.
it may seem unlikely to someone who's never had to deal with gender stuff, but it's the experience of my body, it's what i've actually lived and it is irrevocable truth.
ETA: about the clothing thing and trans people being the biggest upholders of gender norms - i think i've worn a dress maybe three times so far this year, and most days i can be found wearing jeans and a shirt of some brutal metal band or other. I feel amazing and feminine in that, just as i do when i wear a dress. it's not about gendered items of clothing, it's about the gender you bring with you.
originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Boadicea
Sounds like a mental health issue to me.
One would imagine our essence or soul to be of an asexual nature, so how it can be born into the wrong type of body or sexuality is quite frankly beyond me.
People that consider becoming Transsexual are perfectly free to do so, that's a given, but it's possibly worth considering that that some things dont grow back.
Takes all sorts to make the world spin through so whatever makes people happy is exactly how they should "live" as the opposite gender.
It sounds as though that young man needs a different counselor, one that understands that gay does not mean wrong gender. That is concerning.
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Boadicea
...the biggest problem i see with it all is that its artificial. It's all about appearance,how i feel,how i look to myself and others blah blah blah and the truth of the matter is no matter how many operations you have or HRT etc... you will always be what you where born (Reality Check)
Most of us are not balanced completely by any stretch of the imagination but this is an example of extreme distortion/confusion...
Also to go to the extreme of having surgery to alter your private parts/your gifts of creation is not only damaging but a possible indicator of serious mental health issues.
originally posted by: Saiker
Tranny here (no I have not had my junk chopped and I find that idea scary.) I've been married in a traditional marriage for more than ten years. What makes me a girl inside a guys body it was noticed by my wife before I knew. It all came naturally how we talked, how we cuddled, had sex, ate dinner raised our children. I naturally was doing my wife's job (traditional family type stuff) without thinking about it. Then we explored each other sexually and we knew it was so. My wife had a problem with it at first in being secure I would not search out the man of my dreams. After a few years of our struggle, we have found happiness in each other.
I am very masculine as a learned trait over my childhood and would be very offended at the notion im a gay because im not. To those that make assumptions about one's sexuality and their mentality should really be careful one day you may see quite the curveball in your life that you would never have expected because I was once that judgemental and harsh to those that were different.
This entire line of reasoning is based on the concept that there sare only 2 possible genders based on biological outcome and completely ignores the fact that as far as chromosomes go, it isn't a matter of there only being XX or XY as options when that could not be farther from the truth. The world is not just a two tone, black and white reality. There are many colors and shades in between and all of these variable outcomes are expressed genetically
originally posted by: rickymouse
I think that the whole changing your sex thing is a propaganda started by people and businesses that profit by it.
Just because a person is hormone deficient --
-- and in control of their mind doesn't mean they are defective either or even weird. I see more of an issue in society of people judging people by their looks.
originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Boadicea
Many people with gender dysphoria would still transition medically. Having hormones that fit what your brain is expecting does wonders. So does looking at yourself naked and seeing what your brain expects to see.
originally posted by: Boadicea
Having genitals that match your perception of your self is now a reality...
This is where I get lost... how do genitals define the person inside? As I stated, forget the superficial accoutrements, and we'll add our physical genitals, and what is different?
The best way to answer that is to examine how your own genitals do or don't define you, Boad.
For example, would you feel something crucial was missing if you had to have them removed, such as for a cancer treatment? Would you reconstruct them to feel like yourself again, or is the importance of genitals regarding identity something more arbitrary for you on a fundamental level? As in, would their loss not bother you, not make you feel like a fish out of water in your body, or would you feel like something utterly critical is missing?
For transgendered people, it's not a cancer loss of a body part that makes them feel foreign in their bodies, it's always been something critical missing.
If it would bother you greatly to not have genitals matching how you perceive yourself, it should be a no brainer to understand how trans folks feel.
originally posted by: Boadicea
I actually have had a complete hysterectomy, and 20 years earlier lost a tube and ovary to a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. At that time, docs told me I could never have kids. I soon found out that some folks look at you different when you're -- gasp! -- "barren." And not so much today, but hysterectomies (and even menopause itself) were once thought to make one "less" of a woman.
I guess it's impossible for me to say, because at this point if something changed after all these years, it would be new to me, as opposed to something I always felt was missing. I don't miss the internal organs... and I sure don't miss periods! But I think the health-related issues I had to deal with, I had to separate me from my body, if that makes sense.
Slightly OT to the thread...
I can understand this, but to be fair about it, internal organs can't be looked at, so many I should have opted for more clarity and said external genitals (although technically, that's the very definition of "genitals" -- external reproductive goods)
If those had to be removed from you for one reason or another, I'd wager you'd feel at least a little out of water, at least for a short while.
My late grandmother had a mastectomy, and mourned that lost boob for the rest of her life.... If I apply that mindset to trans folks, I can completely understand where they come from. It was hard for my grandmother to feel like herself again with one breast, so I absolutely can see how someone feeling like their genitals don't match them can feel wrong, too.
originally posted by: projectvxn
If you take away all of the outward expressions of humanity...
...then what you are left with is not human. It's not a logical argument at all.
If we're going to get to the root of what this all means I don't believe pigeonholing human factors into non-existence to make a point, one way or another, is a legitimate avenue of exploration.