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Gowdy: FBI Acted Properly With Use of Informant

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posted on May, 31 2018 @ 02:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


Donald Trump is NOT the "TARGET" of the investigation.


I am shocked to hear you make this admission.

So you realize Trump isn't "going down" for any of these BS lies/spin, right?
That he'll finish out his 4 years (probably 8, if re-elected)?



You are only shocked because your brain is stuck in a rut.

Trump not being the target of the investigation

AND

Trump being innocent Collusion/Obstruction of Justice/Working for Russian Interests in trade for Campaign Assistance...
AKA Criminal Conspiracy to Defraud the United States of America and stuff like that?

ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Mueller is not targeting PEOPLE, he is targeting criminal activity associated with Russian Collusion or Interference in the 2016 campaign.

People only become "targets" once Prosecutors feel they have enough evidence to indict and they are looking to strengthen the case and uncover all criminal activity as much as possible before issuing a full indictment.

The end game for Trump will be a report, not indictment.
At worst he will be named as a "non-indicted co-conspirator" in one of the final rounds of indictments as Nixon was.

Rosenstein decides if the Report goes public.
Before it goes public, it must get redacted by DOJ and intelligence community.

That will trigger the WH and Trump to demand that the report doesn't get released without their own redactions and approval.

That will be a fight. Rosenstein might get fired. Session will then either step back in (un recuse) or Sessions will get fired.

Trump will do everything possible to squash the report altogether or prevent it's release until after mid-terms so he can head off any potential impeachment (aka prevent blue wave in Nov).

All of this goes down in august and early Sept.
Muellers deadline is Sept. 1st for conclusions before he risks interfering in elections.
It gives time for the politics, spin and defense before mid-terms.



The way you describe the situation says that trump has all authority to fire rosenstine mueller and the whole lot if he chooses

Trump has the last say in any investigation under the justice department.

Since they cleared him that means no crime by trump and zero reason or need to speak with mueller



Trump has not been cleared. The investigation is ongoing.

Trump does not have last say in an investigation under the Justice Department.

Only Rosenstein can fire the Special Counsel.

Trump can fire Rosenstein and demand Sessions Un-recuse himself and fire Mueller.

If Sessions refuses, he can fire sessions.

He can continue until he finds someone who will fire Mueller.

Nixon kept going until he got to US Solicitor General Robert Bork, promoted through the firings to acting Attorney General
and Bork eventually complied and Fired Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox.

That is what turned the tide on Nixon and led to his Impeachment.

The difference here is that the firings wont be to prevent the investigation, but to obstruct the release of evidence and conclusions.

Rosenstein will undoubtedly choose to make any report public.
Trump will likely fire Rosenstein before the report goes public.
Sessions will hide behind his recusal and tell Trump he wont un-recuse.
Trump will likely then fire Sessions.

If Rosenstein was fired under such circumstances, Solicitor General Noel Francisco would take his place.

Sounds Bork-like.

Either way the report will get out and Mueller will likely file a handful of indictments before the final report as things wrap up.

Rosenstein could also immediately release an "Executive Summary" of the full report to the public and congress.
It would not include anything that would need review by FBI and Intelligence agencies, just general conclusions.

That would be enough of a teaser to ensure that Public demand got the rest of the report released.




posted on May, 31 2018 @ 02:27 PM
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Gowdy is setting himself up for a run in 2020.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


Donald Trump is NOT the "TARGET" of the investigation.


I am shocked to hear you make this admission.

So you realize Trump isn't "going down" for any of these BS lies/spin, right?
That he'll finish out his 4 years (probably 8, if re-elected)?



You are only shocked because your brain is stuck in a rut.

Trump not being the target of the investigation

AND

Trump being innocent Collusion/Obstruction of Justice/Working for Russian Interests in trade for Campaign Assistance...
AKA Criminal Conspiracy to Defraud the United States of America and stuff like that?

ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Mueller is not targeting PEOPLE, he is targeting criminal activity associated with Russian Collusion or Interference in the 2016 campaign.

People only become "targets" once Prosecutors feel they have enough evidence to indict and they are looking to strengthen the case and uncover all criminal activity as much as possible before issuing a full indictment.

The end game for Trump will be a report, not indictment.
At worst he will be named as a "non-indicted co-conspirator" in one of the final rounds of indictments as Nixon was.

Rosenstein decides if the Report goes public.
Before it goes public, it must get redacted by DOJ and intelligence community.

That will trigger the WH and Trump to demand that the report doesn't get released without their own redactions and approval.

That will be a fight. Rosenstein might get fired. Session will then either step back in (un recuse) or Sessions will get fired.

Trump will do everything possible to squash the report altogether or prevent it's release until after mid-terms so he can head off any potential impeachment (aka prevent blue wave in Nov).

All of this goes down in august and early Sept.
Muellers deadline is Sept. 1st for conclusions before he risks interfering in elections.
It gives time for the politics, spin and defense before mid-terms.


i like your thinking here

of coarse i disagree with some conclusions though

The way you describe the situation says that trump has all authority to fire rosenstine mueller and the whole lot if he chooses

Trump has the last say in any investigation under the justice department.

Since they cleared him that means no crime by trump and zero reason or need to speak with mueller

The only type of investigative appointment that trump would not have final say over would be a criminal one where mueller was appointed for a specific crime with actual evidence.

just a reminder collusion is not a crime paying someone to pee on a bed is not a crime

game over peeps



I respectfully disagree: The game is still very much afoot.
Several indictments and guilty pleas later, we don't know what Mueller's team has learned from the squealers; we don't know how many different threads they're running to ground; we don't know what he does or doesn't have from the intel, surveillance, etc.

It's a good bet more indictments are on the way.

And while Trump remains a 'subject' of the investigation, not a target, interviews continue. The situation is fluid and subject to change. Given that list of questions that came out, at the very LEAST he needs to sit for an interview to answer questions related to obstruction of justce. Incidentally, despite his recorded comments to the contrary, he's now claiming he didn't fire Comey because of Russia. Why? My guess is he's spooked about the obstruction angle.
edit on 31-5-2018 by Gandalf77 because: Typo



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

Spy, by definition, is a derogatory term. A spy is someone who infiltrates, lies, steals, corrupts and generally engages in anti-social/criminal activity. The fact that some specific acts of spying are sanctioned by nation-states does not change the moral shortcomings of the act itself

Most spies are not "secret government agents" or concerned Citizens, but instead criminals/terrorists/foreign spies who are fabricating/entrapping (or lying/stealing/infiltrating/subverting/etc) in order to get a reduced sentence for a crime, to make money, feed a drug addiction, prevent embarrassing leaks, etc. Common people don't usually volunteer to become CI's.

Some of our "spies" (vs case officers and USGOV employees) even engaged in dealing drugs & arms around the world. They've rigged elections & meddled in foreign nations' domestic affairs for centuries. The selective outrage is the most shocking part to me


He admits to this kind of tactic yet they don't quite get that he is manipulating them.


He does his fair share of manipulation. Once again, much like the election, it comes down to "lesser of two evils." You mistake support for Trump as unconditional cultists marching in lock step. It just so happens Trump has carried through on far more promises than any President I can remember, and has taken effective/bold action to influence issues long existing in a state of stalemate.

Manipulation is very commonplace. You don't think far-left progressives are manipulating your party (assuming you're a Democratic voter)? They are trying to push the moderates & liberals out, and position themselves as the party's illegitimate "base." Or how about far-left mega-rich folks? They have multiple agendas also. Much like far-right mega donors. This divide and conquer stuff is getting old, and it is about time for these petty attempts to realized and combated no matter which side they arise from

And unfortunately, in these days, if you're playing fair then you're only kneecapping yourself - since no one else is likely to reciprocate that gesture of decency. It may have become much more obvious in the last few years, but our politics have been like this for far too long. The inappropriately partisan system is a direct obstacle to our instituted forms of government ability to carry on the people's business.


edit on 5/31/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


Sure, but your first "IF" is premised on BS. Has been examined multiple times by Congress and still no evidence that withstands even a cursory smell test.


It isn't premised on BS. McCain, Flake, Hillary (etc) employed a foreign agent (Steele) to contact more foreign agents (the Russians he got "dirt" from - unless he made it up) to influence a campaign.
How is this any different than what you're accusing Trump of?


One was potentially working on behalf of the Russian Government to further their agenda in trade for campaign assistance.

The other was working to reveal that potential collusion.

A Foreign CIA Operative that gathers intelligence from Russian Sources? That's their job.
A Foreign CIA Operative that covertly works with agents of the Russian Government on behalf of Russian Agenda? Bad.

SECONDLY...You guys never seem to explain the "to influence a campaign" part?
If so, why was none of it revealed during the campaign.
Ongoing FBI investigation, FISA warrants issued, Dossier...and none of it came out during the campaign?

That kind of kills the whole "to influence the campaign" BS you guys rant about.

Does reality matter?

If this was any effort to hurt Trump, then Dossier, the FBI investigation, all of it would have hit the press before Trump won, not AFTER.



edit on 31-5-2018 by soberbacchus because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: UnBreakable
Gowdy is setting himself up for a run in 2020.


He aint the only one.

Hell, Pence is probably already planning his RE-ELECTION campaign.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 03:00 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Sillyolme

Spy, by definition, is a derogatory term. A spy is someone who infiltrates, lies, steals, corrupts and generally engages in anti-social/criminal activity. The fact that some specific acts of spying are sanctioned by nation-states does not change the moral shortcomings of the act itself

Most spies are not "secret government agents" or concerned Citizens, but instead criminals/terrorists/foreign spies who are fabricating/entrapping (or lying/stealing/infiltrating/subverting/etc) in order to get a reduced sentence for a crime, to make money, feed a drug addiction, prevent embarrassing leaks, etc. Common people don't usually volunteer to become CI's.

Some of our "spies" (vs case officers and USGOV employees) even engaged in dealing drugs & arms around the world. They've rigged elections & meddled in foreign nations' domestic affairs for centuries. The selective outrage is the most shocking part to me




There's no doubt that spies have done those things--and probably a lot more. It's an ugly thing, but it's a reality.
In this particular case, it sounds like Halper has been a trusted asset for sometime. I believe he's a university prof?
The problem is people are quibbling about what he should/shouldn't be called as if it makes a difference.

Using an asset like him to make contact with subjects of a cointel investigation is definitely apart of their playbook.
It doesn't matter what we do or don't think of those tactics.
End of the day, if they follow policy and protocol, they have the right to use them.
And Gowdy has confirmed they did their job. It just has the side effect of undercutting the latest Trumpian fiction.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


Donald Trump is NOT the "TARGET" of the investigation.


I am shocked to hear you make this admission.

So you realize Trump isn't "going down" for any of these BS lies/spin, right?
That he'll finish out his 4 years (probably 8, if re-elected)?



You are only shocked because your brain is stuck in a rut.

Trump not being the target of the investigation

AND

Trump being innocent Collusion/Obstruction of Justice/Working for Russian Interests in trade for Campaign Assistance...
AKA Criminal Conspiracy to Defraud the United States of America and stuff like that?

ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Mueller is not targeting PEOPLE, he is targeting criminal activity associated with Russian Collusion or Interference in the 2016 campaign.

People only become "targets" once Prosecutors feel they have enough evidence to indict and they are looking to strengthen the case and uncover all criminal activity as much as possible before issuing a full indictment.

The end game for Trump will be a report, not indictment.
At worst he will be named as a "non-indicted co-conspirator" in one of the final rounds of indictments as Nixon was.

Rosenstein decides if the Report goes public.
Before it goes public, it must get redacted by DOJ and intelligence community.

That will trigger the WH and Trump to demand that the report doesn't get released without their own redactions and approval.

That will be a fight. Rosenstein might get fired. Session will then either step back in (un recuse) or Sessions will get fired.

Trump will do everything possible to squash the report altogether or prevent it's release until after mid-terms so he can head off any potential impeachment (aka prevent blue wave in Nov).

All of this goes down in august and early Sept.
Muellers deadline is Sept. 1st for conclusions before he risks interfering in elections.
It gives time for the politics, spin and defense before mid-terms.


i like your thinking here

of coarse i disagree with some conclusions though

The way you describe the situation says that trump has all authority to fire rosenstine mueller and the whole lot if he chooses

Trump has the last say in any investigation under the justice department.

Since they cleared him that means no crime by trump and zero reason or need to speak with mueller

The only type of investigative appointment that trump would not have final say over would be a criminal one where mueller was appointed for a specific crime with actual evidence.

just a reminder collusion is not a crime paying someone to pee on a bed is not a crime

game over peeps



I respectfully disagree: The game is still very much afoot.
Several indictments and guilty pleas later, we don't know what Mueller's team has learned from the squealers; we don't know how many different threads they're running to ground; we don't know what he does or doesn't have from the intel, surveillance, etc.

It's a good bet more indictments are on the way.

And while Trump remains a 'subject' of the investigation, not a target, interviews continue. The situation is fluid and subject to change. Given that list of questions that came out, at the very LEAST he needs to sit for an interview to answer questions related to obstruction of justce. Incidentally, despite his recorded comments to the contrary, he's now claiming he didn't fire Comey because of Russia. Why? My guess is he's spooked about the obstruction angle.


no they cleared trump twice of any criminal activity.

that clears him

and proves the investigation is cointel and that muellers appointment is unconstitutional givin that this scope outlined was a different one than cointel.
In order for mueller to head a cointel investigation he would need to be approved by congress and signed into law by the POTUS

Now if muellers appointment is a criminal investigation against trump as outlined by his scope then he is now finished and the whole thing was unconstitutional because there was no valid crime proven in order to validate the investigation.

All the rest is just filler



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 03:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: howtonhawky

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: soberbacchus


Donald Trump is NOT the "TARGET" of the investigation.


I am shocked to hear you make this admission.

So you realize Trump isn't "going down" for any of these BS lies/spin, right?
That he'll finish out his 4 years (probably 8, if re-elected)?



You are only shocked because your brain is stuck in a rut.

Trump not being the target of the investigation

AND

Trump being innocent Collusion/Obstruction of Justice/Working for Russian Interests in trade for Campaign Assistance...
AKA Criminal Conspiracy to Defraud the United States of America and stuff like that?

ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Mueller is not targeting PEOPLE, he is targeting criminal activity associated with Russian Collusion or Interference in the 2016 campaign.

People only become "targets" once Prosecutors feel they have enough evidence to indict and they are looking to strengthen the case and uncover all criminal activity as much as possible before issuing a full indictment.

The end game for Trump will be a report, not indictment.
At worst he will be named as a "non-indicted co-conspirator" in one of the final rounds of indictments as Nixon was.

Rosenstein decides if the Report goes public.
Before it goes public, it must get redacted by DOJ and intelligence community.

That will trigger the WH and Trump to demand that the report doesn't get released without their own redactions and approval.

That will be a fight. Rosenstein might get fired. Session will then either step back in (un recuse) or Sessions will get fired.

Trump will do everything possible to squash the report altogether or prevent it's release until after mid-terms so he can head off any potential impeachment (aka prevent blue wave in Nov).

All of this goes down in august and early Sept.
Muellers deadline is Sept. 1st for conclusions before he risks interfering in elections.
It gives time for the politics, spin and defense before mid-terms.


i like your thinking here

of coarse i disagree with some conclusions though

The way you describe the situation says that trump has all authority to fire rosenstine mueller and the whole lot if he chooses

Trump has the last say in any investigation under the justice department.

Since they cleared him that means no crime by trump and zero reason or need to speak with mueller

The only type of investigative appointment that trump would not have final say over would be a criminal one where mueller was appointed for a specific crime with actual evidence.

just a reminder collusion is not a crime paying someone to pee on a bed is not a crime

game over peeps



I respectfully disagree: The game is still very much afoot.
Several indictments and guilty pleas later, we don't know what Mueller's team has learned from the squealers; we don't know how many different threads they're running to ground; we don't know what he does or doesn't have from the intel, surveillance, etc.

It's a good bet more indictments are on the way.

And while Trump remains a 'subject' of the investigation, not a target, interviews continue. The situation is fluid and subject to change. Given that list of questions that came out, at the very LEAST he needs to sit for an interview to answer questions related to obstruction of justce. Incidentally, despite his recorded comments to the contrary, he's now claiming he didn't fire Comey because of Russia. Why? My guess is he's spooked about the obstruction angle.


no they cleared trump twice of any criminal activity.

that clears him

and proves the investigation is cointel and that muellers appointment is unconstitutional givin that this scope outlined was a different one than cointel.
In order for mueller to head a cointel investigation he would need to be approved by congress and signed into law by the POTUS

Now if muellers appointment is a criminal investigation against trump as outlined by his scope then he is now finished and the whole thing was unconstitutional because there was no valid crime proven in order to validate the investigation.

All the rest is just filler


Wow. I'm sorry, but that's a remarkable leap in logic. (Antilogic? 99% logic free? Logic-be-gone?) You may have to fill in some premises, details, etc. to support those conclusions...



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: Gandalf77

Actually based on the questions released he will NOT sit down as the questions are designed not to get to the truth but to try to get Trump to trip up so they can accuse him of lying to the FBI, even if he never intended to.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I disagree. Those questions were very detailed and directly related to a number of issues central to this investigation.
They weren't "designed" as a trap; that's the right-wing narrative.

He's a self-proclaimed "stable genius." All he has to do is tell the truth. Is that asking so much?



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I disagree. Those questions were very detailed and directly related to a number of issues central to this investigation.
They weren't "designed" as a trap; that's the right-wing narrative.

He's a self-proclaimed "stable genius." All he has to do is tell the truth. Is that asking so much?


By looking at the questions, it appears they were "designed" to get information on Trump's intent in regards to certain issues.

My guess is that Trump's actions with Comey, for example, and the things he had said following Comey's firing, threw up many red flags and the questions (some) were created to discern whether Trump intended to obstruct justice or not.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I disagree. Those questions were very detailed and directly related to a number of issues central to this investigation.
They weren't "designed" as a trap; that's the right-wing narrative.

He's a self-proclaimed "stable genius." All he has to do is tell the truth. Is that asking so much?


By looking at the questions, it appears they were "designed" to get information on Trump's intent in regards to certain issues.

My guess is that Trump's actions with Comey, for example, and the things he had said following Comey's firing, threw up many red flags and the questions (some) were created to discern whether Trump intended to obstruct justice or not.


Exactly. Same with questions around Sessions' recusal.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Sillyolme

An informant is not an employee of the federal government (or law enforcement in the case of non-IC work) but they do act at their behest. I'm not trying to muddy the waters here, just wanted to point out how full of it Clapper is.

When he sat there intentionally muddying the water by using words like "tradecraft" "spycraft" "spy" etc he knew what he was doing. He was exploiting the common lack of knowledge surrounding this issues. No "employee" of the federal government is a "spy" they are case officers and handlers, who certainly recruit spies, but that isn't what Clapper/et al are accused of doing. They are accused of using a confidential informant (asset - AKA "spy") to collect intelligence on a campaign.

The fact they vehemently denied this (and initially poked a lot of fun at Trump/supporters) should show you how serious this really is. It is unprecedented. And if they were so concerned with Russia, why the failed cloak & dagger BS? Why not approach the campaign directly? Why did Obama deny it? Why didn't he take action?

Barrack Hussein Obama was in office when "the attack" was happening, so why did he take no action? Why did he tell everyone Russia had backed off? Even poked fun at Trump (yet again) for even possibly believing our elections could be tampered with. Speaking of which, how about all the liberals who still claim to this data that election meddling doesn't happen? (ie: illegals voting) How can you reconcile that with the allegations RE: Russia?



The opposition calls your guy a spy.

You call him an informant.

That’s how it works.

If they are inserted, mole.

Someone on the inside already, is a snitch.




posted on May, 31 2018 @ 04:59 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I disagree. Those questions were very detailed and directly related to a number of issues central to this investigation.
They weren't "designed" as a trap; that's the right-wing narrative.

He's a self-proclaimed "stable genius." All he has to do is tell the truth. Is that asking so much?


By looking at the questions, it appears they were "designed" to get information on Trump's intent in regards to certain issues.

My guess is that Trump's actions with Comey, for example, and the things he had said following Comey's firing, threw up many red flags and the questions (some) were created to discern whether Trump intended to obstruct justice or not.


Problem is you can’t question his constitutional rights/powers vis a vie intent.




edit on 5 31 2018 by burgerbuddy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Gandalf77
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I disagree. Those questions were very detailed and directly related to a number of issues central to this investigation.
They weren't "designed" as a trap; that's the right-wing narrative.

He's a self-proclaimed "stable genius." All he has to do is tell the truth. Is that asking so much?


By looking at the questions, it appears they were "designed" to get information on Trump's intent in regards to certain issues.

My guess is that Trump's actions with Comey, for example, and the things he had said following Comey's firing, threw up many red flags and the questions (some) were created to discern whether Trump intended to obstruct justice or not.


Problem is you can’t question his constitutional rights/powers vis a vie intent.





Again, while he may have a right to do what he did, it may still be considered obstruction of justice, depending on the intent behind his actions.

Such a case has never been brought before a court when a president has been involved and I highly doubt a case would ever make it to court, but obstruction of justice has been part of articles of impeachment in the past.

Nixon was accused of doing something very similar and obstruction of justice was a part of his articles of impeachment.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: UnBreakable

Wonder what nick-name trump would give him.
I call him rat face myself. He's got a Harry Potter character look about him. But I'd never say that to him. It's just for me. And now you guys but this is not someplace he'd be visiting so it won't hurt his feelings.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

Unless they're our guys.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 07:36 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gandalf77

Actually based on the questions released he will NOT sit down as the questions are designed not to get to the truth but to try to get Trump to trip up so they can accuse him of lying to the FBI, even if he never intended to.


The fact of the matter is that Trump simply cannot open his mouth without lying. No trap required.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

The Russians that were indicted were the ones that slammed Facebook and social media with fake news and fake ads. He didn't indict any Americans in that part. Yet.
Those guys had nothing to do with trumps campaign or his working with Russia. Or the secret meetings or any of that back channel stuff. Those oligarchs... Those are the guys to watch. Muellers six months ahead of anything we're aware of.
edit on 5312018 by Sillyolme because: (no reason given)



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