Creating the Illusion

In May 1984, an official from the Trump Organization called to tell me how rich Donald J. Trump was. I was reporting for the Forbes 400, the magazine’s annual ranking of America’s richest people, for the third year. In the previous edition, we’d valued Trump’s holdings at $200 million, only one-fifth of what he claimed to own in our interviews. This time, his aide urged me on the phone, I needed to understand just how loaded Trump really was.

I came across this article dating back to April of this year, which I haven’t seen yet, and something struck me as odd. Come along.

During the interview, which was taped, the aide to Donald Trump, a John Barron, makes claims of incredible wealth that turn out to be inaccurate upon inspection and keep Donald Trump off the list. However, they find that his wealth had been exaggerated the previous three years as well, and that he shouldn’t have been on the list.

But it took decades to unwind the elaborate farce Trump had enacted to project an image as one of the richest people in America. Nearly every assertion supporting that claim was untrue. Trump wasn’t just poorer than he said he was. Over time, I have learned that he should not have been on the first three Forbes 400 lists at all. In our first-ever list, in 1982, we included him at $100 million, but Trump was actually worth roughly $5 million.

However, the most interesting part of this story is that the writer kept tapes of the interviews and listened to them for the first time in over 30 years. What he discovered is why I’m writing this post.

When I recently rediscovered and listened, for first time since that year, to the tapes I made of this and other phone calls, I was amazed that I didn’t see through the ruse: Although Trump altered some cadences and affected a slightly stronger New York accent, it was clearly him. “Barron” told me that Trump had taken possession of the business he ran with his father, Fred.

Donald Trump had been using his alter ego, Barron, for at least 4 decades now, as far as we know, and years later he also named his youngest son -- Barron.

Why this struck me as odd is the recent discovery of the books by Lockwood Ingersoll, dating back over a century, which cover the adventures of a Baron Trump, a wealthy boy who follows the lead of a “master of all masters” Don, and travels to Russia. There he enters an underground world “as he discovers weird underground civilizations, offends the natives, flees from his entanglements with local women, and repeats this pattern until arriving back home at Castle Trump.” The three books end with, “The Last President”, where the protagonist, who lives in a hotel in New York at the Fifth Avenue address the Trump Tower stands today, watches the collapse of the society.

My suggestion is this – we now know he has been using his alter ego name, Barron, for decades, at least. Is it possible he came across these books as a child and has fallen in love with that name since childhood, seeing himself as the protagonist, adopting the name and eventually naming his son the same? Perhaps it fulfills his longing of becoming royalty, as his elaborate schemes throughout life to appear that way would suggest.

Where does the visage end and the man begin? What do we really know about this man, other than his carefully constructed tricks and illusions; the things he tells us about himself?

I understand there are two topics here, the article to Forbes and the Ingersoll books and the connections. Feel free to debate either.


Tapes of John Barron
Ingersoll Books

a reply to: Kharron

Gave you a star for wasting so much time creating a thread based on hearsay with no evidence....


Remember the time you got me drunk and touched me inappropriately without my permission? Yea, did not think so, but if write about it on the internet it must be true right?

So... What's your point?

I'm sorry about what all of you are living through.

In this world of illusions there are many demons.
They are Legion.

We see Through a Glass, Darkly.

a reply to: Kharron

The only connection I can think of is how the 3 books end with the Last Pesident he watches the collapse of society. My dad was once trying to scare me a while back by telling me that Trump was the last president before the apocalypse occurs. That in the bible it says how there will be 45 kings before Jesus returns or something. I don't know the exact quotes.

Other than that, until the tapes can be released this is all just hearsay.

originally posted by: PageLC14
a reply to: Kharron
Other than that, until the tapes can be released this is all just hearsay.

You can listen to the tapes in the article quoted above. This is not hearsay.

I did not post this in breaking news or anything, as it is not -- it's simple madness. We do know for a fact that Trump lied to Forbes magazine and pretended to be someone else and that he lied about his wealth a few times to them, so I posted it for debate, for deconstruction, for crazy ideas or eye-opening ones, whatever comes up.

I also suggest that the connection between the books and the name have much more to do with reality than time travel, or his uncle's connection to Nikola Tesla. I am suggesting that the simplest solution, or occam's razor, is probably a childhood infatuation that grew into a life long illusion.

a reply to: Kharron
This actually makes sense. More sense than the other explanation that Trump is somehow pre-ordained by God and fate to lead America. Lmao at the other thread where people actually believe that BS.

a reply to: Kharron

I'm not sure how old you are, but I assume you are probably too young to remember Donald Trump, back then. It was a well-known running joke that Donald Trump would inflate his wealth or call out 'fake news' (although he didn't use that label) when he felt his wealth had been devalued by someone publicly. It's sort of like 'his schtick,' his persona. Always has been.

So, I don't feel there's ever been any illusion/disillusion regarding that. Donald Trump basically 'appeared' in the national public eye, very suddenly, and he was always comically braggadocious -- I don't believe most people took any claim about his wealth seriously.

Regarding the Ingersoll books, I think that's an interesting thought that hadn't occurred to me -- he read them when he was younger. If I came across a book bearing my family's name (which isn't a very common name), I'd probably read it, too.

Makes more sense than him time traveling, that's for sure.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm old enough to remember it, although I did not live on this continent back then, so I do not; I was much closer to the Iraq-Iran war back then and remember that as the main topic of those times. Thanks for your comment, it makes sense.

I would say, however, that people DID take his claims about his wealth seriously, although it seems they shoudn't have. The author writes that Forbes magazine took his word on his wealth the first three years they printed the list, and upon review found that he shouldn't have been on any of those three lists -- he misrepresented himself on all of them.

It wasn't until 1984 that they caught onto it and took him off. However, the first three years paid off -- the illusion worked and he became a celebrity and started getting the loans that enabled him to get rich. If he did not get on the Forbes 400 list the first three years, his career might have looked quite different.

a reply to: seeker1963

"Forwarding to Mueller for full investigation !!!"

🌚

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: seeker1963

"Forwarding to Mueller for full investigation !!!"

🌚

Oh it's ok, no need, I'm sure he knows.

Besides, lying to a magazine is not a crime, it's their fault for not fact checking what he claimed. I'm guessing they'll never make that mistake again. I don't think lack of morals has even been a crime, bit it can lead to crimes.

a reply to: Kharron

Oh, I missed that link

I don't know how many tapes he included in there but in that first one he kinda sounds like him but kinda doesn't at the same time. And if this:

probably a childhood infatuation that grew into a life long illusion.

is true then it just goes to prove how crazy he is.

originally posted by: Kharron
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm old enough to remember it, although I did not live on this continent back then, so I do not; I was much closer to the Iraq-Iran war back then and remember that as the main topic of those times. Thanks for your comment, it makes sense.

I would say, however, that people DID take his claims about his wealth seriously, although it seems they shoudn't have. The author writes that Forbes magazine took his word on his wealth the first three years they printed the list, and upon review found that he shouldn't have been on any of those three lists -- he misrepresented himself on all of them.

It wasn't until 1984 that they caught onto it and took him off. However, the first three years paid off -- the illusion worked and he became a celebrity and started getting the loans that enabled him to get rich. If he did not get on the Forbes 400 list the first three years, his career might have looked quite different.

Forbes knew exactly what they were doing.

Here's the key paragraph you did not quote:

At the time, I suspected that some of this was untrue. I ran Trump’s assertions to the ground, and for many years I was proud of the fact that Forbes had called him on his distortions and based his net worth on what I thought was solid research.

Here's another good part:

The official was John Barron — a name we now know as an alter ego of Trump himself. When I recently rediscovered and listened, for first time since that year, to the tapes I made of this and other phone calls, I was amazed that I didn’t see through the ruse: Although Trump altered some cadences and affected a slightly stronger New York accent, it was clearly him.

Forbes wasn't fooled...they just want to pretend they were now. But, the truth is, Forbes is responsible for attempting to mislead the public to Trump's benefit.

And now they are trying to mislead you into thinking they were unaware victims, when nothing could be further from the truth.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

MotherMay, the first quote you posted is what I was referring to when I said they found out and then pulled him from the list. The author is proud that he didn't believe it and Forbes listed $200m as his wealth instead of the $1b that he claimed. That's the first time they caught the lie.

That also prompted them to review the prior three years and found out they had been misled all three years. If they did not know it, they wouldn't have audited the first three years -- therefore I never claimed they did not know all these years, if that's what you're trying to say.

The second quote that you say is good, I also thought was good -- that's why it's part of my OP as the third quote in it.

a reply to: Kharron

Hey, Kharron, good thread.

My suggestion is this – we now know he has been using his alter ego name, Barron, for decades, at least. Is it possible he came across these books as a child and has fallen in love with that name since childhood, seeing himself as the protagonist, adopting the name and eventually naming his son the same? Perhaps it fulfills his longing of becoming royalty, as his elaborate schemes throughout life to appear that way would suggest.

Where does the visage end and the man begin? What do we really know about this man, other than his carefully constructed tricks and illusions; the things he tells us about himself?

It's a neat little theory, and it is possible, I suppose. But then again, pretty much anything is.

We have decades of public record regarding Donald Trump. I'd argue we have a good idea who he is, at least more so than most people in the world.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Thanks LesMis.

Here is my question to that though... why do we disregard such a long history to listen to what someone may say about themselves? Why do we give more weight to claims than we do to facts?

We know he has had five bankruptcies. We know he claims he never settles in court, but we have proof of him settling to a number of lawsuits against him.

We know he has settled in cases anywhere from small and personal, in order to avoid a stain on the name, to very large federal settlements, such as RICO (racketeering) for Trump University. We know tens of thousands of American citizens had multiple class-action lawsuits against him, some of which he settled. We know he's had people suing him and his family for racial discrimination in housing, as well as a number of lawsuits, some that he settled, regarding Fair Housing.

And we all know what settling is -- it's a way of saying you're wrong when you have money. If I had the resources to fight and I was right, I'd never settle.

Additionally, after having broken the Fair Housing Act a number of times, which he paid for, this month he is getting sued by the State of New York for failing to enact that very same Fair Housing Act as President, the one that he is so keen on breaking. It's been in effect for 50 years prior to this. There is now a national lawsuit against the President on this.

New York is joining a lawsuit against President Donald Trump for failing to enforce the federal Fair Housing Act, which prohibits discrimination in housing. It’s the first state in the country to do so.

NY vs President

So, you bring up a good question that I have elaborated on -- we have all this record and yet, we pay attention to what people say about themselves -- as if they had no reason to deceive us.

And who is the fool in it all, the one that lies in order to become greater or the one that believes it? Them or us?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Kharron

Hey, Kharron, good thread.

My suggestion is this – we now know he has been using his alter ego name, Barron, for decades, at least. Is it possible he came across these books as a child and has fallen in love with that name since childhood, seeing himself as the protagonist, adopting the name and eventually naming his son the same? Perhaps it fulfills his longing of becoming royalty, as his elaborate schemes throughout life to appear that way would suggest.

Where does the visage end and the man begin? What do we really know about this man, other than his carefully constructed tricks and illusions; the things he tells us about himself?

It's a neat little theory, and it is possible, I suppose. But then again, pretty much anything is.

We have decades of public record regarding Donald Trump. I'd argue we have a good idea who he is, at least more so than most people in the world.

More than a theory. Now that I know about the Trump Prophesies I might have to start a church.