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In Arizona, teaching creationism is supported by 4 of 5 Republicans who want to oversee education

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posted on May, 30 2018 @ 10:11 PM
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edit on Rpm53018v57201800000010 by randyvs because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 30 2018 @ 10:48 PM
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originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: randyvs
Sorry I see not a god damn thing wrong with the
Bible. I love every word. So you are the worst.

So you're cool with slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46) and support it...
You believe homosexuals should be put to death (Leviticus 20:13)...
Or women must subjugate themselves to men (Ephesians 5:22)...
Or St Paul's advice in 1 Timothy 2:12...

You love 'every word' of that made up fairy tale, written by homophobic, women-hating racists?

Man, you can keep that thing and enjoy living in the 3rd century.


What I'm not cool with is you taking the
deeds of man and blaming them on God.
From any age or era or time or world.
Enough with the really old stand byes.
For the love of Jude all you like to do is
annoy the other side. And cause miles of
useless text.
edit on Rpm53018v50201800000034 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: peter vlar

Thanks Pete
I try, pretty hard, most of the time

I wish we could all get along and respect others opinions, disagree by all means but work on getting along


Like I said... the world would be a much better place if everyone at least put in the effort.


Sadly I am embarrassed to be a Christian knowing how so many act, but I use to act like that as well so....not much better I am afraid



It was the sanctimonious attitudes that drove me away from the church in the first place. Before enlisting in the Army, I was really close to going to Seminary. I grew up in the church and to say that my family was very active would be a drastic understatement. I was extremely close to making my Irish Catholic Grandmother extremely happy lol But after dealing with all of the paperwork, the admissions process, and the interviews I knew that I would have been miserable.

The more I learned about the organizational structure and how things were run, I realized it was less a church and more of a cross between a political party and a corporation and that wasn't something I could support because it wasn't the message I wanted to share, no needed to share. At least at 17. You know, when we all know everything and have all the answers!

So I walked away. I was the Catholic version of a Ronin. I still believed, still thought that the message was important and still knew that those footsteps were the ones I should be following. It took me a few more years of studying, learning and exploring to realize that the church, what it represented and stood for and the knowledge it claimed really had no answers and left me with far more questions.

Agnosticism was the only logical option for me at that point. Sure, I will be upfront and state that I don't think there's a god. At least not the one portrayed by any of the multitude of faiths texts claims god to be. I'm also not arrogant enough to say I definitively know so I always leave the window open. I may not believe in the supernatural aspects but the message attributed to Christ is a beautiful one. The path he lays out is righteous and to live in a way that I feel is in accordance with that message isn't a huge stretch whether you believe in him or not.

Philosophically, I think that its the best way I could live my life and those are the morals I try to impart upon my children while giving them the tools to explore the natural world around them, look into which ever mystery box calls to them and then make their own informed decisions with the knowledge that I will be there for them regardless. If someone like Randy think that makes me a horrible person and makes me responsible for the deaths of children and their educators then we've moved well beyond the realm of reason and far past the point where a civil dialogue is possible. I think the turn that this thread has made makes that observation quite evident to anyone who can read.


As far as not being much better, we're only human and as long as we are trying to be more civil as often as possible that goes a long way I think. A lot farther than open hostility and denial of facts that are offensive to personal and confirmation biases.


No hard feelings


Likewise.



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 03:15 PM
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Which Creation story are they going to teach? The Biblical Genesis one? What if the student isn't a Christian?



posted on May, 31 2018 @ 08:09 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Christianity, Old Testament and new, all make perfect logical sense if understood, giant jigsaw puzzle that takes a lot of work to piece together and I know very few churches who teach the truth, a good and close version but not the truth

Anyway we live in a flawed world as flawed people reading a flawed book, to me Jesus is not flawed, my salvation is in him, not a book, men or church

I think agnosticism is a logical choice, know many agnostics who are better "Christians" than many Christians I know I also think evolution is a reasonable theory


Can't help myself
Your little tag line on your posts
"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? "God can prevent evil and wants to but, for a time He won't, because He is allowing humanity freewill, the choice, right and wrong. Anything outside of that and we don't have freewill.
If we don't have freewill we are robots
Epicurus never understood how we were created in Gods image, freewill is a gift, evil comes from within us, we choose evil, God lets us



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 03:38 AM
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a reply to: peter vlar

See it's like this Peter. You may have
noticed Dexter Riley got an actual
response out of me. Because he/she
seemed more concerned with finding
answers to our obviously broken school
System. Not like I expect the haters to
ever say something in the realm of, oh hey
that's a good point. Might as well cast meat
to Pirahnas.

I brought what I noticed to the table and
most responses are negative and hostile.


What is there to discuss?



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 03:50 AM
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a reply to: [post=23451316]Raggedyman[

So you're all good with Jesus just not the
only book that tells you about him? The best
source by far when it comes to knowing him
sucks, but he's great?

How do you pull that off?



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 04:31 AM
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Make something, douchebags.

And make it quick.

Don't give me that 200 million yrs BS.

Grab a rat and make a goat.

Or just make a jellyfish from sand and gasoline.




posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 06:22 AM
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originally posted by: Arizonaguy
If you don't live here then don't worry. Busybodies


Do you plan on preventing those youth from leaving the state upon graduation?

If not, then anyone living anywhere those kids may reside in the future certainly has a right to worry.

Personally, I have no issue with teaching ID in a "Religions of the World" course, but religious based creationism simply has no place in any science classroom or textbook.

The continued desire to conflate religion and science is further evidence of the dumbing down of America.
edit on 6/1/18 by redmage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: [post=23451316]Raggedyman[

So you're all good with Jesus just not the
only book that tells you about him? The best
source by far when it comes to knowing him
sucks, but he's great?

How do you pull that off?


Randy, I didn't say the book sucks, in fact my view is quite the opposite
I just don't need it to be perfect to justify my faith in Jesus, or Jesus

And what bible is perfect, there are hundreds of versions, so what one do I have to put my faith in, the Greek text, the Hebrew text, English, what language is exact

Irrespective, I don't have to justify myself to you, I am condemned according to you



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 07:19 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

I guess whatever language you read?




Irrespective, I don't have to justify myself to you, I am condemned according to you


What's with all the drama on this site?
Condemned? Is that really fair?



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: randyvs

Well according to you Randy I was the "worst"

I don't believe the bible is perfect
I believe that it is pretty close and it teaches a clear and precise message that Jesus is who the bible teaches He is
That is good enough for me

It's that simple
I am not saying the bible is wrong, bad, sub standard, just that it has human error, that's all



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Fair enough



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: randyvs

John 5 The bible bears witness to Christ, it is the word of God, in a penultimate way
Jesus is The Word of God, from the beginning

The bible is just a book that points to Jesus
It's not the key to salvation, it's a pointer to salvation

Jesus is the Savior

I have no argument with the bible or with you
We disagree, I can live with that, the question is can you

media.themeetinghouse.ca...



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: randyvs
What I'm not cool with is you taking the
deeds of man and blaming them on God.

YOU were the one who said :


Sorry I see not a god damn thing wrong with the Bible.


And I was quoting from the Bible. Therefore you "see not a god damn thing wrong" with it.

Your words, Randyvs. Not mine.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Don't give me that 200 million yrs BS.
Grab a rat and make a goat.
Or just make a jellyfish from sand and gasoline.

You need to go back to school. Elementary, preferably, and start over.

And not the Arizona version.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Seriously, you could pick Arizona up, stick it down somewhere in Texas - - and no one would know the difference.

There is definitely a political battle going on in AZ.


BULLOCKS!!! They don't have BBQ in Arizona. Only Texas has BBQ.
Also, DFW looks like LA in the 80s. Wasn't LA trying to look like Dallas in the 80s because of JR Ewing?
Also, the big cities in Texas are more blue than red and tend to be less tolerant of this whole veiled religious intelligent design creationist nonsense. Oh, sure, you get out into the red areas and the religious fanatics are going to capture you and berate you for supporting the war on xmas, and they might even tie you to a truck and drag you around by your ankles with that great big Silverado F150 until you're dead - unless you survive - then they'll burn you for being able to float like wooden ducks - but um, at least the major cities are kind of veering away from shunning teaching evolution in public schools.
Now, some of these super expensive private religious universities still require you to take Bible courses to earn one of their degrees and most privately funded homeless shelters make you go through chapel for thirty minutes before feeding you, but these religious extremists are quickly becoming outliers within larger datasets, you know what happens to outliers existing within very large datasets, right? They either face elimination or they are withheld from the Texas BBQ luncheons, one or the other.



posted on Jun, 1 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: noonebutme

It's not accurate at all
The bible does say that, Jesus teaches something different but
Jesus is the final word

The bible and sma historical book teaching humanities failures
The Hebrews and other tribes had many issues, because the bible explains those things doesn't make them acceptable

Slavery was the norm, people sold themselves into slavery to survive, you are talking thousands of years ago, you can't compare the cultures of today, it's naive
Women, Christian women are called to subjugate themselves to men? Why did you ignore the next verse where men are to serve women. Quote mining? Ignorant? Not a good sales pitch when men are called to die for their wives is it

As for 2 Timothy, more than likely thatbwas an isolated issue because of the Pagan City it was addressed to and the early nature of the church. Latter in the New Testament women not teaching was never mentioned again as the church grew and women became educated
Your comprehension of biblical theology is childish

You read it like you are reading a disney novel. It's not contemporary. No offence but it's beyond your education and you are only arguing out of sensationalism rather than logic and sincerity
edit on 1-6-2018 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2018 @ 01:25 AM
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originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Make something, douchebags.

And make it quick.

Don't give me that 200 million yrs BS.

Grab a rat and make a goat.

Or just make a jellyfish from sand and gasoline.



I got a good chuckle from that.

I believe that humans are experimenting with creating different types of chimera. There are ongoing experiments to grow human organs in pigs, for instance. However, I believe a rat-goat is still well beyond our capability.

And creating a jellyfish from sand and gasoline would definitely require some matter transmutation abilities of a biblical proportion. But I know a few firebugs who would probably give it a try.


-dex



posted on Jun, 3 2018 @ 03:27 AM
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originally posted by: DexterRiley

I admit that my knowledge of ID is quite limited.

You can catch up here, also in relation to your earlier claim that there is no "solid evidence" for it:

Evidence of Design from Biology. A Presentation by Dr. Michael Behe at the University of Toronto

Since you mentioned something about listening to one another, I'm interested in why you might think that the evidence presented in the video above doesn't count or isn't "solid evidence" of design; and thus evidence of the machinery and technology being discussed in that video having been designed and created by logical implication or follow-through, which in turn requires a specific type and level of intelligence that corresponds with the machinery in question and various other logical requirements related to the processes of designing and creating* automated systems of machinery with built-in assembly instructions and specialized machinery for auto-assembly, reproduction with variation, proof-reading of the instructions + automated repair&maintenance, automated damage control systems, adaptive systems (with automated responses to environmental conditions for example, or other internal or external conditions to a living cell or organism), etc.(*: engineering if you will).

Some common objections are already responded to below, so if you want to go with those you might consider explaining why these responses are invalid or wrong or misleading or whatever reason you might have to ignore, dismiss or discount what's being said in response to the claim that 'it's just arguing from ignorance', or "that accepting the idea of intelligent design promotes ignorance" for example (question #3):

Five Questions for Michael Behe

If you can't spot the rather blatant falsehood in the article in the OP that "intelligent design" is "a rebranding of creationism" and a "religious belief", not even after the information about that subject in the previous 2 videos, this video might be of help:

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (Part 6 of 10)

For a more comprehensive presentation of the evidence of design and creation from biology, physics, chemistry and astronomy for example, and thus at least 1 designer and creator for the designs and creations in question, see videos 1-42 in the same playlist. Which is a personal selection of the evidence of creation that appears the most rock-solid to me, or the easiest to understand. A little more about the following 3 terminologies and their differences (as well as the topic of the Arkansas law about "creation science" several decades ago; McLean v. Arkansas, 1982):

Evolution, Creation, or Creationism—Which Do You Believe?
edit on 3-6-2018 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



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