is Nick Pope bulls---? let's discuss

a reply to: markymint

Yep.

a reply to: markymint

Well that's it really...or is it?

I actually respect Nick Pope for being reasonable voice who doesn't jump to nonesense but each to their own.

He worked for the MoD, he was a civil servant and now he's a TV personality. It's the TV aspect of ufology that keeps the subject alive, I made a thread of about Mark Birdsall and his TV series dedicated to investigating UFOs, I found that series to be a real gem in a time everyone was joining the crazy bandwagon of ufology. 100% British too, yes it was entertainment but it left the decision making down to the viewer whilst just presenting what they found out.

UFOs isn't exactly the easiest subject to be objective with whilst also keeping a level of integrity and a down to earth attitude.

Be loud, be bold and be controversial, it gets the attention... The attention it deserves in my eyes, a negative one.

Here on ATS we kinda lost a high quality and diligent worker with in the ufology field due to harassment and blackmail, it was a sad day when I found out about that. IsaacKoi, nobody could attack his work so they attacked him.

Ufology is full of kooks and bs artists, the majority of people into ufology are doing it on an entertainment capacity so I only ask for forgiveness in regards to me not paying such people any attention.

I've never been interested in "the band wagon" and I won't treat so called documentaries as anything than the entertainment that they are.

I mean I've even put my own sightings here on ATS, not for stars and flags, not for entertainment. I put them here for others to read, get feedback and potentially similar sightings. I'm into ufology to learn and I've learned to stay away from the entertainment aspect of it.

I want to believe.

a reply to: schuyler

My beloved aunt was the head librarian for a large city in Colorado.
Feisty librarians really rock.

I have to agree that Mr. Pope is much more prudent than many
out there.

Public figures get this mythos built up around them... through no fault of their
own if they are honest. The dishonest ones feed the mythos.

I also have to agree that Nick knows a fair bit about UFOlogy.

The only real question is whether anything good flowed past his desk when he
worked for MoD. I know he speaks a bit about Condign, but also refrains from
saying some things about Condign. I have no idea really what he knows but does
not discuss. But he doesn't seem to beat his chest about it, like the lame
pay to play fraudsters.

Kev

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

Here here!

You are so correct.

Kev

Heh certainly believe! You don't need Pope for that He is a reasonable voice. Just wonder if that voice is necessary at all though.

I mean, do you and I really need to be told, "Yes I think there is a possibility". I think we #ing know that, with all the eye witnesses and military generals and pilots and ancient indicators and youtube videos. He is for lack of a better term the "vox pops", media term, whereby statements are followed by a few random people saying "Yes I agree" or "No I don't agree". They don't need to be in there really, they're just thrown in for filler. Nick Pope is filler. What he says isn't the bull# necessarily, him turning up to say it in the first place, is the bull#. He knows he's filler, he knows he's got little more to add than filler... so spare us? Or like, get to the real #ing cruxt of it, not just this "dancing around the edges" approach. Yes, he has exerted some substance here and there, but it comes in MINISCULE amounts, literally, microbiology would have a hard time finding it.

But sure that probably comes off like a personal attack, lol. It's supposed to be "dude, get out whilst you're still ahead" but hell if I can write it as kindly as that right now..! There are just so many weird links and lack of real meat of info about him, it's just iffy. Like you go into the Air Force admin, come out a journalist (although the only journalism you do is appear on TV shows about UFOs and answer the phone to Daily Mail editors once in a while), have some of the best knowledge of a countries UFO situation (apparently), abandon that country, become filler on a TV show... And people like me care or should care because...? That's not inspirational. That's not a role model. That's not anything, it's just... a #ing blank canvas that blew in the right direction.

I did actually intend to interview him to get proper information about him and his history and not just his generic TV and "journalistic" response to UFO sightings, because they were really pissing me off back in 2008 era, he agreed but moved to America before I could undertake it. Not a roast, just wanted to ask things that the media always skip over. The hard to ask questions. I have no shame in that lol. Then I think he did an AMA on this site around that time, not sure of the results. I still think it would be pertinent to examine how and why he was "thrust" into the UFO sphere. It might reveal ways the subject is manufactured (for entertainment purposes, or others, like security etc). It does afterall involve the UK's defence and air force...

Assumption mode on (& trigger alert active): Some manager in the MoD gave Nick that role. A decision was made for that specific person to get that specific job. That manager, being a manager, made managerial decisions on why Nick would be the best. Whose desk should we drop the UFO folder on? And you think late 80's/90's that question in a British man or woman's mind was NOT "Who is going to be ridiculed for dealing with this? Who can we afford to expend to this stuff?". It was UFOlogy afterall, the persistently ridiculed mess. And I honestly don't believe they looked at him and chose him because he was somehow more capable, intellectual or exemplarary than anyone else there. Anyone in that office could have read a piece of information, filed a report or called the manager to prioritize it lol, to think something special existed about Pope that made him the special selection, #ing please! I think it's the reverse. He was probably the under achiever, so they gave him a little extra work that required a slightly simpler approach. They dumped the ridicule folder on his desk, expected him to break, but instead it actually had the opposite effect and became an interest of the MSM. As I said before the rest of the office probably began to loathe him for it. They couldn't fire him, because having someone in that position did them favours too. Sooooo many factors lol. I don't know the truth. What is the truth? I WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH!!!! Not the #ing TV response we get from Nick Pope ufo celebrity.."yes I think it's possible" my balls.


The kindest way I could probably put it is: Nick Pope, you're always only ever giving us 45% of the full picture. You can do better. "Yes I believe it's possible" doesn't count, at the very least, admit to camera that your insight and rank actually gave you very little access to anything substantial anywhere along the line -- cos you can't fool me and others like me anymore. You were a desk jockey. That blacked out document proves you actually didn't do much more than a MUFON webmaster probably does, that the MoD weren't sharing any secrets with you, and ultimately that it was probably all going over your head (ie legit sightings went direct to the higher ups and bypassed you, come on man, admit it). Admit this, be honest. Give me something to believe, not just filler, not just flap. Get to the cruxt of the matter, and that is talking about yourself more openly and being truthful, not just believing you can ride the bandwagon without ever needing to explain yourself, and again those 2 sentences on a document (and they are literally all of the history about Nick Pope that exists anywhere, even his own website had/has such a watered down profile) aren't good enough. Get to the bottom of the situation with the UK military and air force involvement in the phenomena, as you say yourself it's possible enough for it to be investigated, so your job JOB isn't actually over yet and if you abandon it simply for tv fame then # you. There is a legit phenomena, that governments and militaries are aware of, it clearly went right over your head, #ing admit it. Thanks

a reply to: markymint

Honest questions.

Do you believe anyone in an official capacity knows anything about the true nature of UFOs?

Do you think anybody within an official capacity has the legal right to divulge such information?

NDA's (None Disclosure Agreements) are a very real thing, nobody in their right mind will literally throw their life away to out the truth and in my own opinion I doubt that anyone with such information could or even truthfully share such knowledge without a bit of doubt about the accuracy of such information.

The X files was awesome in this regards, how many times were Mulder and Skully found to be chasing their tails, furthering disinformation and fighting other's battles unknowingly?

As I said I have a lot of respect for the way Nick Pope handles himself, his due diligence is a rarity in the field and personally I insist on it because otherwise the subject will NEVER be taking seriously.

Separate the wheat from the chaff, the truth from fiction... It needs to be done because the alternative is the likes of thirdphaseofthemoon. Where everything is aliens.

I hope Nick Pope doesn't stop tbh, I won't really be watching the TV shows for anything other than to entertain myself. But the nuts and bolts of new sightings and the dissection of information? I want people like Pope working that stuff out, I want levelheadedness.

Or as it was said in the X files...

Mulder. If a shark stops swimming, it will die. Don't stop swimming.

Ufology will drown in it's own bs if the likes of Nick stop swimming, the alternatives are terrible. Not many reasonable "sharks" in ufology.

Well seems to me, that people want to be rescued from boring old, painful and
depressing reality, and latch onto something like UFOlogy or religion or some
crazy conspiracy to champion, as a form of escapism.

This is hardly news to anyone.

Well. I just thought I'd mention something I've noticed recently.

At a certain point, some true believers start practicing displaced
aggression.

This is because they now realize that they have wasted years of their
life in a fruitless pursuit, and the general pattern observed is that
they lash out at (supposed or real) authority figures---

the very people they had hoped would lead them to the "promised
land".

I experienced a little taste of this, when i realized that someone
I had idolized, in fact knew far less than I did; well other than
the knowledge of the very dubious actions of others involved
at their 'level'.

Frankly, if any of us has a right to be angry.. we should be angry
with ourselves; angry that we have allowed our desire for escapism
to make us vulnerable to disinformation and self-deception.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That's a brilliant observation and I respect you for stating it so bluntly. Thanks for being one of the three reasons I still come here, occasionally. You rock!

originally posted by: markymint
Nah, grow up. I'm a person with some opinions. This is an internet forum for opinions and discussion. Diverse ones at that, potentially controversial ones at the best and worst of times. So if it's alright with you, even if it's not tbh, I'll stick to that fact.

Grow up yourself. Your opinion is worthless if it's not backed up by facts, and all you have there is unsupported opinion in a personal attack against someone who has contributed more to the UFO field than you ever will. You're pulling your "facts" out of your butt, stuff that is unsupportable and not even true. It's not worth the bytes used to present it. You have no credibility.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I did some soul searching a while ago, I figured I'll never find answers to my questions and I came to terms with that.

Once upon a time I asked questions like "why me?" or "why so much disinformation?" I learned that I was asking the wrong questions or maybe I shouldn't be asking any anyways.

Life's a huge learning curve, we shouldn't ever stop learning... I don't think we should regret the paths we walk either because usually in due time we'll get the answers we looked for...

In complete darkness we are all the same, it's only our knowledge and wisdom that separate us. Don't let your eyes deceive you.

I love that quote, came across it in peculiar circumstances. We shouldn't be so harsh on ourselves, we're all deceived daily and often it's our own doing. Sometimes we expect too much.

All the best Kev,
Ray

geez. Another attack the ufo messenger thread. Seems everyone in the field of late has major faults it seems. Perfect, no, interesting?, I think so, at least to me. I enjoy his commentary on the many ufo programs I have seen over the years, and will continue to indulge in what ever comments he has about the subject whether in print or video or program for what it's worth.

I have no problem with a guy getting a little notoriety. Good for him.


I wonder, though, how he came to such popularity within UFOlogy if he didn’t have any prior connection to it.

a reply to: markymint

"No Friends, No Family"

Pope is married to an American woman, an academic at San Jose State University:
www....(nolink)/mod-ufo-hunter-weds-638/8754

(They won't let me post the domain name, but it's the website of the group that has been running the UFO Congress.)

As for friends, he seems to have plenty at UFO gatherings!

www.imdb.com...

youtu.be...

😎

a reply to: RAY1990

Ray,

Thank you for your honesty.

Honesty about oneself in front of others is a measure of greatness. Keep up the good work.

I've been undergoing some growth recently myself.. I'd been stalled out since 2013 when
I came to ATS. (it was the BTUFO encounter that stalled me out, not ATS).

I've still got foolishness and self-deception that I need to man up to.. and i look forward
to the enjoyment i will get from transforming once again.

In my opinion, that's the attitude one should have.. not displaced aggression.

Drop me an IM anytime you want to chat in a way that will help you heal.

Kev

Sure thing.

** Do you believe anyone in an official capacity knows anything about the true nature of UFOs?

Maybe not the "true nature", but yes they absolutely know about them, because they decided to shut down something that has continued to evolve since the UK shutdown on the subject that Pope was involved with. Remember they actively said "we believe there is no significance to UFO reports" or words to that effect. Certainly ranking military or air force officials know too well about the "foo-fighter" phenomena which is prevalent here in the UK. You don't actually have to go high into the ranks of any agency here in the UK, police, army, air force - to find someone with an encounter, or have had encounters told to them by their colleagues. It's everywhere and yet nowhere at the same time. If there's anything to the American "football pitch sized" UFOs I'd imagine that information is shared in some capacity between the UK and USA. I doubt very much they have the answers, unless we want to go down the Roswell rabbit hole. But very much a tangible phenomena exists here in the UK at least.

Nick Pope was USED by the MoD. Maybe that's a better approach to this than "Nick Pope is X". They used him. They decided enough was enough, and off he went. In a pretty, or exceedingly short span of human history, you may recall first they shut down the scientific satellites and handed them over to military control (and there's no doubt in my mind these satellites were, would have been and still are front line access to evidence of the foo-fighter/fast walker phenomena), then the UK declared "there's nothing to the phenomena" and then they released documents - one perhaps legit worthy case for 1000 red herrings. They know. And in theory, Nick Pope should know they know. I can't believe he is or at least ACTS naive to this fact. They #ing know. Foo fighters have been around since at least WW2, in UK, in Russia, in other countries no doubt. I see foo fighters. Other people on this board see them, call them what you will. They don't seem like things you can just go out and catch, but they do seem within reach of some research. They are being researched, only the conclusions probably aren't too far off what all of us can conclude .... lights in the sky ... that we can't catch very easily if at all.

Maybe if you go up the chain it really is just a singular Smoking Man at the top, and he's the only one that knows. But someone in the chain of command knows. Probably a bunch of them. HM the Queen conducted a Royal investigation into crop circles in Wiltshire... They're probably privy to some part of it also, though that stuff is a bit too historical for my focus/interest so I don't know too much about it, only that it took place.

** Do you think anybody within an official capacity has the legal right to divulge such information?

Well, a lot of them seem to do it on their death bed. So yes when they're not in active service I believe they get that right at least after time, in Nick's case that'd be 12 years. In active service no, but we must also remember they do not class this stuff as a security threat here in the UK anymore, so what exactly ARE they protecting by not divulging it? With Pope its tricky cos that's sort of assuming the worker in MacDonalds drive-thru Paris is part of the same chain of the corporate HQ in Los Angeles (or wherever). Maybe he was put under more extreme agreements than other staff, maybe they were all under an intense one, I don't really know. But he's free of that now. he's a journalist for christs sake, remember when journalists used to do exposés? And use their journalistic prowess to uncover truths? Pope needs to ditch his allegiance to the MoD or whomever it is. Or I suppose we can sit around for 30 years waiting for another death bed statement.

** NDA's (None Disclosure Agreements) are a very real thing, nobody in their right mind will literally throw their life away to out the truth and in my own opinion I doubt that anyone with such information could or even truthfully share such knowledge without a bit of doubt about the accuracy of such information.

Can't imagine that NDA extends over 12 years since leaving their employ. And when you think about it, there are actually a whole bunch of military generals and such IN active service that would talk about it all quite openly at the time. Again like mentioned before the official standpoint is "there's nothing to it" so NDA or no surely if you want to be revered as a decent investigative journalist then he of all people has like, a front row ticket? But still, "Don't divulge secrets" ... but those that would have said that have since said "there are no secrets", so surely he can just divulge anything and everything? lol

Thanks for the interesting questions though! I see what you're getting at and your favouring of Nick Pope to not favouring. There needs to be balance, a voice here, a voice there, an opinion here and a differing one there. That's all good, if it keeps the flames fanned so be it. For me, the "fill in the blanks" sheet just isn't that full yet. Nick Pope is one of the tv celeb ufo people that I have tried to see eye to eye with but feel there are some big gaps along the way with his understanding of the phenomena and sure as you point out, his general approach to his FORMER employer... like... # 'em dude.... that was 12 years ago!! Spill the beans, if he has none to spill, then he was never really a part of the real stuff, because they "used" him most likely. I applaud anyone who can make such an admission, it takes some courage. For my understanding UFOlogy becomes clearer over time, and all I'm saying is that in that, his role diminishes, because his viewpoint is either naive, he was used and no-one will speculate or even hypothesize that fact (and think how much people dote over US gov. hiding all the facts)... so yeah. Stuff, bytes not worth the space they're written on, etc

Has he had a sighting? Apparently not. Therefore I only mildly value his opinion on the subject same as anyone else. You can read a billion reports but you can never get that true understanding of the scale of the issue until you have a sighting, or two, or five. Call me cold, but you know, I've never seen a snow leopard so I don't go round talking about snow leopards. If someone tells me they've seen a snow leopard I don't then go onto tell other people about that like I'm some kind of expert. That'd be the Nick Pope effect LOLZ

Pope protects his personal life, but isn't secretive about it -- the openminds link identified his wife and showed photos of the wedding.

Sure thing big Jim. And that's respectable. But the work aspect... I mean he was connected to some of the biggest # peddlers in UFOology ever to exist outside of the US Gov (the MoD). And he has next to nothing to say about that. Sort of partisan to project fear... not sure what we should really make of that. Respect him for the fact he can't or won't talk about those # peddlers the MoD? Nah. Last time I saw or read him he seemed to still be singing to their tune, and I honestly don't know how effective he can be whilst he continues to do so. Blow that whistle, especially when it's a giant vuvuzela...!

There may be something in one TV stint where he confesses there may be a bigger game being played above his (former) rank, I can't remember. But nothing like that jumps out. It took a good while for him to deviate from the standard MoD script. Granted he's doing better on that front in more recent times. Being a UK person, I'm more interested in the UK connections of which he is one, if not one of the only ones in the modern era. We have some prolific crop circlers sure, not many... well I don't really want to call Nick a UFOlogist. He's just a journalist pundit. A UFOlogist blows whistles and actively investigates stuff lol.

We have david fravor and other folks, actual jet pilots who have actively engaged in UFO pursuits, on record, testimonials and they can't be that far past their sell by date (as active airmen). I think a man who had simply a desk job in an admin building can talk about it at some point without fear of men in black, compared... But that's just me And that's the funny thing isn't it. Potentially, Pope could blow the lid on the UK cover up... and it makes you wonder if inside, that's what he wants to do, but as I say has been too impressioned by project fear or whatever the military equivalent is. He's the one person with some credibility, enough at least, to stand up and say "The MoD played you all for fools". Even if he doesn't know it for sure (#, I'll accept opinions without facts, they can be interesting lol) he can actually make that sacrifice to the subject he supposedly rallies for. What sacrifices has he made? None whatsoever as far as I can tell. Everything within the lines, the straight and narrow. You don't get true grit info from someone like that, ya just don't.

Sometimes you need to make the rules up as you go. For the benefit of the thing you are apparently an influencer in. If only he was a bit more a rebel less by the book, lol. Like I said, he's no role model to me, as a ufologist, a man, or anything, even if he is for others, that's fine, that's cool. Grow up to be like Nick Pope if you like - whatever the # that is lol. Each to their own. He'll spout an interesting line one in every fifty, the rest is the tired Nick Pope script, if you've heard it once you've heard it a hundred times. Disclaimer: I haven't seen the new Ancient Aliens so I don't know if his narrative has changed (I think he popped up literally once in the series before? Or maybe I'm thinking of Hangar One). But up to that point, I think he's got more interesting stuff to share than he ever actually shares, so until he starts divulging some real interesting stuff, I'm still inclined to believe the funny short answer given earlier, "Yes".

the biggest problem about him is that he is too mainstream, i have heard about remdleshum a billion times, i dont care about it anymore!

originally posted by: mirageman
Let's be factual instead of jumping to conclusions about Nick.

I agree and thanks for the factual information about his position!

I don't like speculative personal attacks against people, but my problems with Nick pope are more factually based. For example, in my opinion he has his head handed to him in this video regarding the radiation readings at Rendlesham forest, when he says 10 times background radiation is significant and if those were rabbit diggings they must have been radioactive rabbits. The other panelist demonstrates that background readings are so low they are beyond what the high-scale detectors are designed to measure and then demonstrates why a variation of ten times in background even if it was measured accurately by some more appropriate instrument isn't that odd:



So it's bad enough to make this gaffe in the first place, but that he sticks to it after the facts have been explained to him causes me to lose respect for Nick Pope. Either he is incapable of understanding the facts, or he is capable of understanding them but chooses to ignore them to promote a sensationalized story to promote his agenda. Whichever case is true, I find it difficult to assign any credence to anything he says related to UFOs. Maybe if he made a generic comment about the weather that wouldn't be suspect.

More detailed analysis of the facts is presented on Ian Ridpath's site and in Tim Printy's newsletter, where Tim Printy claims himself as an expert being a former radiation worker (I am also a former radiation worker, who had to pass tests in understanding radiation to work with regulated radioactive materials).

Were the radiation readings significant? (Ian Ridpath's site)

Tim Printy, a former US Navy nuclear engineer familiar with the AN/PDR-27, has made an independent assessment of the radiation readings at Rendlesham, concluding that “contrary to what Nick Pope has stated, the levels reported are insignificant even if the maximum reading of 0.07 mR/h was accurate” – for full details, see this page from Tim’s online UFO review SUNlite.