School Shootings-----Possible Causation?

a reply to: ccseagull

Great response. Thanks for sharing. You and your daughter have suffered much through this and I am truly sorry for that.

There is a "normal" world out there. You just have to look for it. A friend of mine had a similar experience. Ultimately, she and her daughter, with the help of a friend, moved to Italy. They've found a "real" life with few pressures and much beauty.

a reply to: ccseagull

This is the battle we're embarking on.

Kiddo has his learning issues too, and we're already under a 504 for auditory issues. I refuse to let him be shackled to homework as this all falls out. We've fought through one disastrous year where he hit "the wall" and all his work had to be done at home, and I will do my best to see that doesn't happen again, but there just isn't any guarantee.

You go year from year and balance what he wants in terms of being with friends with what he needs in terms of his own peace of mind and the academics.

Treat someone like a slave and they will rebel. In a child's case, teachers usually deal with 30 children+ in their classrooms in our state. They can't always look out for little Johnny trying to fit in only to be dogged for not having the latest shoes or iPhone.

I think that the escalation of shooting is in response to the lack of compassion and social fear of not fitting in. These kids get picked on to the point that they are willing to go find a weapon, and then we as a society try to blame the parents for it. It's a shock to good kids whenever they find out that not everyone is a good person.

Scape goats and black sheep will stand up for themselves if their cries for attention unheard, and now teachers are arming themselves to shoot said child once that child has lost their hope in the fact that things will get better.

And sadly, this day in age, things DO NOT get better. These children see the behavior of those in authority every day, and perhaps more so than most adults in some cases. it's pathetic that the lives of our children are now threatened by the very people that claim to have their best interest at heart.

All I can say is that those teachers better not shoot my kid by mistake.

originally posted by: TonyS
Maybe its time for some real change in this system. Everyone knows its one of the largest money sucking debacles in the US today.

Don't tell the military that. They hate competition.

IDK if this relates to shootings as there are a vast majority don't go postal. A factor maybe for the few.

common denomataor is anti depressants.

simple answer.

Wouldn't it be great to choose where our tax dollars are applied? Not one cent of mine would go to the slackers who have never pulled their weight in society...NONE.

a reply to: TonyS

This article and postulations are 100% accurate. Throw in traditional school bullying and kids just generally being ass holes to other students and you have a system ripe for a boil over. The public education system in the US is an absolute joke. 6 yr olds sit for 90 minute tests. 90 minutes. I'm an adult and can barely sit still 30 minutes let alone for 90 minutes.

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: TonyS

This article and postulations are 100% accurate. Throw in traditional school bullying and kids just generally being ass holes to other students and you have a system ripe for a boil over. The public education system in the US is an absolute joke. 6 yr olds sit for 90 minute tests. 90 minutes. I'm an adult and can barely sit still 30 minutes let alone for 90 minutes.

to be fair as a n adult you have way more on your mind than a child. A child goes to school and they have school on their mind. An adult sits down and they have life on their mind, bills, their kids, job, etc etc. It's a lot easier for a kid to focus when all they have to focus on at school is school. unless of course they have ADD aka being bored.

a reply to: Knightshadowz


Nah that's way to complicated. It literally is just the fact that they put some kids on anti depressants. Imagine a kid on anti depressants for years and becomes dependent of them and one day doesn't take their meds. yup...you guessed it. shooting spree.


it's not even kids either, it's adults too.

Just look at every shooter at these school shootings, all had history of depression and using anti depressants.

originally posted by: Painterz
Interesting theory, problem is Japan has an insanely tough school system, tons of pressure on kids, heavier workload than American schools, and those kids aren't going on mass shooting sprees.

No, they are just becoming Hikkmori instead. Apparently they have developed independent thinking, and don't conform to the traditional salary-man role model. Japanese corporation culture doesn't really have any space for the freelancer/contractor/consultant/startup developer. Everyone has to work for a corporation but only if they have top grades.

en.wikipedia.org...

At the other end of the social spectrum, there is Karoshi, death by overwork

en.wikipedia.org...ōshi

My high school had a school role of 3000 at it's peak. It had originally been a private school (what they call grammar schools in the UK), but had been converted into a state school. The funding then had allowed them to have a new science block, but over time they had acquired a second building one street block away, where each department (art, chemistry, home economics) had classrooms. Getting between the two buildings was like Urban Combat 101. Students were always chucking stuff like milk and glass bottles in Summer, ice and snowballs in Winter, tearing off the aerials from cars. Sometimes even younger students would be chucked over hedges into residents back gardens. Survival rules included use trees for shelter, go through gates in pairs, always take the highest path to get to a classroom.

Even the shops had a restriction of no more than three students at any time. Same things happened in the classrooms, throwing stuff around, making dart guns out of needles, thread and BIC pens. Throwing rice at people and telling them they've got lice. The building wasn't well maintained. The high ceilings of corridors and classrooms meant that the cleaners were only contracted to clean the lower 8 feet, the other 24 feet were left to get dusty. Various shops underneath the staircases just collected dust and empty crisp bags. Floors in some places were stone segments, walls were a faded pale cold blue and wooden panelling. My mother and her friend were absolutely horrified when they saw these conditions.

For those students who took school meals, the basic ingredients like mushy peas, soggy chips, fish fingers and sausages were all prepared at a central facility, and delivered in converted ambulances in hermetically sealed chrome containers.
One disruptive student and a whole class would fail to be taught for 15 minutes out of every 45 class period. Sometimes we had double or even triple periods. Other schools taught an entire subject for one afternoon or morning.

There may not have been social media back then, but there was "The Grapevine" or gossip and rumours that spread from student to student. No different from Twitter or Facebook now. Lots of students identified school at being like one of those USA super-max prison movies.

Our school did have advanced classes for Mathematics, Physics and other science subjects. These were the equivalent of first year university. But if you took a subject that was streamed, you might just end up only being taught half of the entire syllabus. So it would end up a downward spiral. I was able to escape when there was the Teachers Strike, which
meant that I was effectively home-schooled. Then I could concentrate on study rather than fighting.

originally posted by: Painterz
Interesting theory, problem is Japan has an insanely tough school system, tons of pressure on kids, heavier workload than American schools, and those kids aren't going on mass shooting sprees.

No, they are just becoming Hikkmori instead. Apparently they have developed independent thinking, and don't conform to the traditional salary-man role model. Japanese corporation culture doesn't really have any space for the freelancer/contractor/consultant/startup developer. Everyone has to work for a corporation but only if they have top grades.

en.wikipedia.org...

At the other end of the social spectrum, there is Karoshi, death by overwork

en.wikipedia.org...ōshi

My high school had a school role of 3000 at it's peak. It had originally been a private school (what they call grammar schools in the UK), but had been converted into a state school. The funding then had allowed them to have a new science block, but over time they had acquired a second building one street block away, where each department (art, chemistry, home economics) had classrooms. Getting between the two buildings was like Urban Combat 101. Students were always chucking stuff like milk and glass bottles in Summer, ice and snowballs in Winter, tearing off the aerials from cars. Sometimes even younger students would be chucked over hedges into residents back gardens. Survival rules included use trees for shelter, go through gates in pairs, always take the highest path to get to a classroom.

Even the shops had a restriction of no more than three students at any time. Same things happened in the classrooms, throwing stuff around, making dart guns out of needles, thread and BIC pens. Throwing rice at people and telling them they've got lice. The building wasn't well maintained. The high ceilings of corridors and classrooms meant that the cleaners were only contracted to clean the lower 8 feet, the other 24 feet were left to get dusty. Various shops underneath the staircases just collected dust and empty crisp bags. Floors in some places were stone segments, walls were a faded pale cold blue and wooden panelling. My mother and her friend were absolutely horrified when they saw these conditions.

For those students who took school meals, the basic ingredients like mushy peas, soggy chips, fish fingers and sausages were all prepared at a central facility, and delivered in converted ambulances in hermetically sealed chrome containers.
One disruptive student and a whole class would fail to be taught for 15 minutes out of every 45 class period. Sometimes we had double or even triple periods. Other schools taught an entire subject for one afternoon or morning.

There may not have been social media back then, but there was "The Grapevine" or gossip and rumours that spread from student to student. No different from Twitter or Facebook now. Lots of students identified school at being like one of those USA super-max prison movies.

Our school did have advanced classes for Mathematics, Physics and other science subjects. These were the equivalent of first year university. But if you took a subject that was streamed, you might just end up only being taught half of the entire syllabus. So it would end up a downward spiral. I was able to escape when there was the Teachers Strike, which
meant that I was effectively home-schooled. Then I could concentrate on study rather than fighting.

The children of America have been fed a culture of violence.
The TV, movies, video games, PC games-- a plethora of violence pervades the media culture of today.

And we must add the jihadi lunacy that has invaded the world and that mindless terrorism they have perpetrated on the world. Not that I’m saying the killers are replicating their depraved religious dogma, but the human species tends, oftentimes unconsciously, to be a copycat.

The baby boomer generation wasn’t raised on the violent specter of mass murder through terrorism to any degree like the millennials have been, so indeed the human tendency to copy is taking place.

There is little altruistic causes in our youth culture as the baby boomers had growing up. It’s all materialism: iPhones, computer games, movies, the technology fever, and the only religious spirituality that is widespread are the lowest kind of religious dogma and ethnocentric hatred from Jihadis and evangelical fundamentalists. This religious, false spirituality actually adds to the general metric of hatred that breeds the environment where the killing fever germinates.

That added to the nationalistic fever going around the world doesn't create a human environment of care and love the world needs as a counter to the materialistic and ethnocentric philosophies that are rearing their ugly heads worldwide.

Guns, of course, and the general culture of revenge related thought is another nail in the coffin of the peace of the world.

There are no tolerance, understanding, forgiveness teachings that our youth could be exposed to that might help them cope and develop. In fact, as noted above the religious teachings are often poisoned by medieval ethnocentric notions of superiority over others based on a theoretical faith.

So overall, the civilization is in a bad state and getting worse and there is nothing on the moral, ethical, intellectual horizon that will counter this darkness

The American society is not a homogeneous civilization like for example Japan. Someone mentioned Japan having a tough school system.

Our American civilization is riddled with division on the political and social landscape.

The original sin of this nation, slavery, and genocide, has not been solved and that scar still affects deeply the unity of the country, even after centuries of that dark period ending.

Racial and political strife pervades the politics. There is no more, or perhaps there never was, a true unity of national patriotism where the different peoples could unite behind. In fact, there are so many varying definitions of what patriotism truly is, this division cant be resolved any time soon.

It’s as if the scars that were created at the beginning of the nation have served to be the great albatross around the neck of the country that will, in the end, strangle the life out of America and turn the American dream into an American nightmare

a reply to: jidnum

As an adult you have the experience in knowing how to deal with "life". A child does not. Additionally, a child's brain is still in its fundamental stages of development where an adult's brain has already completed its development. A child's brain does not have the ability (biologically and compositionally) to process certain forms of sensory inputs such as stress which is what the OPs article is referencing. Children process stress entirely differently than an adult. You are making a very poor comparison.

FWIW ADD is not "being bored".

a reply to: jidnum

Another thing people might not know is the antidepressants severely suppress normal hormonal sexual potency.

It is despicable. It is indoctrination, without any doubt. Conditioned, slowly, in true dictatorial fashion.

Intelligence exists naturally in an unoppressed and state of absolute liberty. Anything short of that should not be acceptable.

a reply to: TonyS

Children and young adults are stressed AF these days - something's got to give for somebody.

I would like to point out that there is an elephant in the room - The pharmaceutical industry.

There are more healthy than sick individuals in the world, so the most money is to be had from showing as much medication down the throat of healthy individuals as possible.

That's why kids who are "a bit depressed" get filled with medication that ultimately may be what makes them go on a killing spree. Hallucinations and all sorts of other side effects can lead you down a very dark path.

I can imagine these drugged up individuals would make excellent subjects for "programming" if you catch my drift.

a reply to: Bluntone22

When I was in elementary school in the late 70s to early 80s we had 3 recesses. Morning, afbternoon and whatever time after we ate lunch. My daughter that's a sophomore now only had a lunch recess. Throw in all the standardized testing the kids are being pressured to do a good job on. And a big one for me is that kids in highschool are being asked to make a career choice as freshman...wtf? All that I had on my mind at that age was girls. Too much pressure and not enough breaks.

I agree with all of that and I would add three words-make learning fun.

Having to learn long division while staring at chalkboard is my vision of hell, I can't comprehend the pressure on the kids these days. But if you make learning fun the stress diminishes. For instance our 4th grade teacher had us make or own De Bono hats to wear, Then in high school my English teachers would give assignments like writing a review, trying to sell a product to the class, stuff like that. Kids these days have to stare at blackboards, screens or books for at least 8 hours and that can't be healthy, if you make the learning experience fun and memorable then there is a greater chance that the student would be more happy and not so shooty.

a reply to: Uberdoubter

I fully get what you mean about the programming! And if not the type Russ Dizdar speaks of, there are plenty of other programming platforms out there, like the violent video games.

Mental illness is rampant throughout this society.

a reply to: TonyS

Ah, thank you TonyS. You are so kind. Now, whereas that "hug" emoticon?

It truly has been an ongoing ordeal BUT I have learned to think outside the box, trust my instinct, never trust anyone in authority (along with other instances in life, i.e.: doctors, officials, and this just seems to be the way it is no matter what organization one deals with), and it has inspired me/us to always know more, be self-sufficient and always learn, and to not let the buggers get you down.

I am so happy to hear of your friend. And yes, there is a normal out there for everyone, one just has to fine it.