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School Shooting Indiana Middle School One Dead So Far

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posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

My state hasn't had a school shooting and is the least violent in the country. It also is one of the least religious...

Funny how the bible belt is so violent.




posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated
Umm...there is danger EVERYWHERE.

Far more chance of your kid dying at the local pool or riding his bike than getting killed in a school shooting.


Not sure that is true. How many public pool deaths are there kids 18 and under?

Or cycle deaths.

In either case it isn't really same problem, or the samemployee solution. They are not even related.


There were about 3500 non-boating accident drownings last year... 20% of which are kids under 14. For the math challenged that is approximately 700 kids a year. How many kids killed in school shootings every year? It ain't no where near 700... maybe 50?

In 2016 there were 840 bicycle deaths. Further digging seems to show about 100/yr are kids under 14.

11 Teens die EVERYDAY from texting while driving. Let's go ahead and ban cars and cell phones.

Just trying to provide some perspective.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated
Umm...there is danger EVERYWHERE.

Far more chance of your kid dying at the local pool or riding his bike than getting killed in a school shooting.


Not sure that is true. How many public pool deaths are there kids 18 and under?

Or cycle deaths.

In either case it isn't really same problem, or the samemployee solution. They are not even related.


There were about 3500 non-boating accident drownings last year... 20% of which are kids under 14. For the math challenged that is approximately 700 kids a year. How many kids killed in school shootings every year? It ain't no where near 700... maybe 50?

In 2016 there were 840 bicycle deaths. Further digging seems to show about 100/yr are kids under 14.

11 Teens die EVERYDAY from texting while driving. Let's go ahead and ban cars and cell phones.

Just trying to provide some perspective.


So not in public pools with lifeguards. And not cycling.

And for you perspective the intent is not the same. Intent matters.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: randyvs

My state hasn't had a school shooting and is the least violent in the country. It also is one of the least religious...

Funny how the bible belt is so violent.


Do they teach philosophy in public schools?


Atheism isn't a moral code. That comes from philosophy.


Thou shat not kill
isn't even allowed in your secular school.
And you scramble around wondering
whats wrong?

What a joke?
edit on Rpm52518v12201800000058 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated
Umm...there is danger EVERYWHERE.

Far more chance of your kid dying at the local pool or riding his bike than getting killed in a school shooting.


Not sure that is true. How many public pool deaths are there kids 18 and under?

Or cycle deaths.

In either case it isn't really same problem, or the samemployee solution. They are not even related.


There were about 3500 non-boating accident drownings last year... 20% of which are kids under 14. For the math challenged that is approximately 700 kids a year. How many kids killed in school shootings every year? It ain't no where near 700... maybe 50?

In 2016 there were 840 bicycle deaths. Further digging seems to show about 100/yr are kids under 14.

11 Teens die EVERYDAY from texting while driving. Let's go ahead and ban cars and cell phones.

Just trying to provide some perspective.


So not in public pools with lifeguards. And not cycling.

And for you perspective the intent is not the same. Intent matters.


Intent is irrelevant.

If saving kid's lives is the goal, there are far bigger issues.

Look, I am not saying school shootings aren't bad. We should do everything we can to stop them. however, limited the rights of others and other draconian types of measures is not wise, particularly when we don't do those things for other things that cause far more deaths.

In a free country, there will be accidents and other events that make you shake your head. We cannot prevent every instance of a nutjob doing harm to others. It simply isn't possible.

Airplanes crash and can kill 200 people or more at one time. They are extremely rare though, just like school shootings. No one stops flying. People don't stop driving because 35,000 people die a year in car accidents.

We don't prohibit alcohol because of drunk drivers... who kill far more people than guns every year. We don't ban cars because of drunk drivers.

I know my position is cold, but it is a reality.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: randyvs

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: randyvs

My state hasn't had a school shooting and is the least violent in the country. It also is one of the least religious...

Funny how the bible belt is so violent.


Do they teach philosophy in public schools?


Atheism isn't a moral code. That comes from philosophy.


Thou shat not kill
isn't even allowed in your secular school.
And you scramble around wondering
whats wrong?

What a joke?


Lol.

I am wondering what is wrong with you. When the evidence shows religious states are violent and secular states are not generally speaking. Your theory is wrong.

Good parents and strong society create good kids. That can happen a variety of ways. Many that do not include religion.

Personally I teach my children the categorical imperative..I have meto many religious people who are extremely prejudice and close minded.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Your schools aren't even teaching kids the
standard ethics of right and wrong. It just
lets them decide for themselves.

Whats so funny?



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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The problem is, there is no one problem. So, it stands to reason, there will be no one solution to it.

Increase security in the schools. I fail to see how that's a bad idea...not a cure, but it'll certainly help. There are any number of non-obtrusive ways to do this. Better door locks so if the bad guys get that far there's one more barrier between him and the innocents is only one. There are others.

More peer to peer interventions, if kids can be taught to bully, surely they can be taught to intervene? Yes? This'll involve, it'll have to, teachers, parents, and admin. This'll go, in my not so humble opinion, a long ways towards preventing many of these horrific events. Yeah, I'm talking about hugging it out...I wonder how many of these shooters might not have done what they did if they'd just, at the right time, received a friendly hug, and someone asking 'em if they wanted to talk about it?

...and, if intervention within the school fails, local law enforcement has to become involved...local, not state or federal. When those two have to become involved, it's gone bad, really, really bad. The locals know the people involved, they live next door, or down the street. They're parents of the kids, or parents of the kids friends. They're much more likely to be able to solve it before it goes completely pear-shaped.

Social media. Used to be you could escape the bullies by the simple expedient of going home...now, with social media, you can't escape even there in too many cases. Otherwise, why would online bullying be a thing? This is the parents job, who else has virtually unlimited access to the at risk kids, if not their parents? It's rougher now in regards to bullying now, simply because, in all too many instances, the bullying is 24/7.

How many parents track what their kids do on line in their social media accounts? I'm sure some do, but I bet it's no where near enough.

No one problem.
edit on 5/25/2018 by seagull because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Edumakated
Umm...there is danger EVERYWHERE.

Far more chance of your kid dying at the local pool or riding his bike than getting killed in a school shooting.


Not sure that is true. How many public pool deaths are there kids 18 and under?

Or cycle deaths.

In either case it isn't really same problem, or the samemployee solution. They are not even related.


There were about 3500 non-boating accident drownings last year... 20% of which are kids under 14. For the math challenged that is approximately 700 kids a year. How many kids killed in school shootings every year? It ain't no where near 700... maybe 50?

In 2016 there were 840 bicycle deaths. Further digging seems to show about 100/yr are kids under 14.

11 Teens die EVERYDAY from texting while driving. Let's go ahead and ban cars and cell phones.

Just trying to provide some perspective.


So not in public pools with lifeguards. And not cycling.

And for you perspective the intent is not the same. Intent matters.


Intent is irrelevant.

If saving kid's lives is the goal, there are far bigger issues.

Look, I am not saying school shootings aren't bad. We should do everything we can to stop them. however, limited the rights of others and other draconian types of measures is not wise, particularly when we don't do those things for other things that cause far more deaths.

In a free country, there will be accidents and other events that make you shake your head. We cannot prevent every instance of a nutjob doing harm to others. It simply isn't possible.

Airplanes crash and can kill 200 people or more at one time. They are extremely rare though, just like school shootings. No one stops flying. People don't stop driving because 35,000 people die a year in car accidents.

We don't prohibit alcohol because of drunk drivers... who kill far more people than guns every year. We don't ban cars because of drunk drivers.

I know my position is cold, but it is a reality.


I have never considered banning guns as a solution.

Not because it's a right (though I think it is) but because it won't work.

I think teaching kids how to be resilient and to have an understanding of the social contract is the long term solution.

Our parents wanted a better easier life for us, with that easier life came less struggle. Less struggle is less rising above the fire, etc..

I teach highschool wrestling and martial arts for that reason. The proudest moment in my life was when this frail child went from loosing in a tech fault to coming back 1 points to still loose. Something happened in his brain that clicked and made him realize he needed to get out of having his face smashed into the mat and try hard to escape.

He didn't win but he didn't give up. I nearly teared up watching him channel his rage and nearly win.

In the short time an entry protocol that sets a better parimeter than a sticker on the door may help as well.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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a reply to: luthier




Personally I teach my children the categorical imperative..I have meto many religious people who are extremely prejudice and close minded


Closed minded now thats funny



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: luthier

Your schools aren't even teaching kids the
standard ethics of right and wrong. It just
lets them decide for themselves.

Whats so funny?


My schools do in fact teach that. In case you were completely ignorant to the world around you the ten commandments are not the only thing that mentions this.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: RickKilgannon

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: RickKilgannon

a reply to: Edumakated

They don't happen frequently and rarely will see mass casualties. Banks get robbed with guns, but rarely are shots fired. Half the time you can rob a bank with just a piece of a paper saying you have a gun when you don't. However, you don't see random mass shootings at banks but cause people will shoot back.

Even from your own link: "Police returned fire, injuring the suspect in the cross-fire. "

You are comparing apples and oranges. Yes, I can find any example where somebody might get one shot off or something, but that is not really an apples to apples comparison to just walking into a poorly defended school shooting unarmed people like fish in a barrel.

Try again..


So are saying that schools should be treated like prisons? Armed guards roaming the halls at all times, maybe a couple sentries placed on top of the school.

Without the access to the actual guns used in the shootings, the shootings would not happen. How do people not understand that?


Ok genius, how do you propose we get rid of all 300+ million guns in the US? Confiscation? Because no criminal has every had an illegal firearm, right? Unless we destroy every single gun on the planet, military and police included, there will always be criminals and people who have firearms and may use them against innocent people.

People wouldn't die in plane crashes if we just go rid of planes.

Thousands of kids die every year from TEXTING while driving. Let's just ban texting... it is about saving the kids right?

Let's ban swimming pools. Why should you get to cool off in your backyard when thousands of kids die from drowning?

Don't be silly...

Considering half the kids around my way are already felons, we might as well make them prisons. Seriously, I don't advocate locking the schools down behind razor wire, but people need to know that someone will shoot back. Most banks look pleasant but everyone knows there is someone armed in the bank.


Said nothing about banning guns, there needs to be laws, like in other countries, where if you have a gun it is required to be locked up separate from ammo. If anyone other than the owner of the gun commits a crime with the gun, without the gun being reported stolen first, then the owner of the gun gets charged with the same crime as the person who committed the crime.

A person know the likelihood that something could happen anytime that they fly or drive a car. A kid should not have to go to school everyday thinking that they could die because another kid stole his dad's gun and decided to kill everyone.

And swimming pools, the cost of insurance to have a swimming pool in your backyard is so expensive anymore, at least where I live, that it is not even worth having one.

And by all means yes lets please ban texting and all cell phones, the world would be better without them.


That dog ain't ever gonna hunt. Locking firearms and ammo away separately completely defeats the purpose of having firearms in the first place. It's just not an option that's ever, EVER going to be on the table. Sorry.

Freedom is one of the very, very few things that is actually worth the loss of life. And it'll ALWAYS be worth the loss of life.

When you get in your car and drive to work in the morning, it's always a calculated risk. So if you want to drive an automobile, you obviously deem that risk acceptable. Freedom.

If you board an airplane, it's a calculated risk. So if you want to be free to fly, you deem that risk acceptable. Freedom.

People die every day in automobile accidents. We know this. But in exchange for the convenience of driving a car, you accept the risk involved. Freedom.

Lots of elderly people fall and break bones every day. They don't HAVE to get up and walk, it's dangerous. But in exchange for the freedom and convenience of that walking gives, you deem that risk acceptable. Freedom.

Every time you ride a motorcycle, it's a calculated risk. It's quite dangerous, right? But riding is something that you enjoy, so you deem that risk acceptable. Freedom.

It's EXACTLY the same thing with firearms. EXACTLY the same. Handling a firearm is a calculated risk. But for the peace of mind that being armed, and able to protect oneself brings, you deem the risk acceptable. Freedom.

F-R-E-E-D-O-M.

People die all the time from gunshot wounds. Men, Women, Children. Everybody knows this. It's a risk.

Security is an illusion. It doesn't exist. You could fall off the porch in the morning as you leave for work, and kill yourself. So do you just stay home? Might be safe, might not be.

Security is the lie you tell yourself every morning before you can work up the nerve to even get out of bed.

Freedom.

I think I've given up all the freedom I'm going to give up.
I won't be giving up any more.

Here Endeth the Lesson.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: luthier




Personally I teach my children the categorical imperative..I have meto many religious people who are extremely prejudice and close minded


Closed minded now thats funny


I am married to a Catholic so....

It's just that your wrong.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

I’m pretty sure it is illegal to text anddrive ... specifically because there are so many accidents.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:34 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Edumakated

I’m pretty sure it is illegal to text and drive ... specifically because there are so many accidents.


I'm pretty sure murder is already illegal too... whether a gun is used or not. Making something illegal doesn't mean people won't do it.

Maybe we should require cars to disable texting and cell phones automatically when in the car? That tech is available.

Maybe people should be required to put their cell phone in the trunk when operating a car, kind of like separating guns and bullets. You know, for safety.

Maybe we shouldn't allow multiple texts. No one needs to be able to text so fast.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

I am even specifically talking about school shootings.. Wikipedia has a list of school shootings that goes back to 1850ish..

Now it includes a lot of single murder instances .. which I assume were not what we would consider a “school shooter”.
But if you scroll through there are a bunch of 4 and 6 murder events too.




Mass shootings as a whole. I’m sure are as old as guns..
though I have to admit imaging the muzzleloader variety is both horrific and comical..

Kill someone. Wad. Powder. Ball... plunger..


Kill someone else...was. Powder. Ball plunger..

Wash, rinse , repeat.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:40 PM
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Guns aren't the problem. Guns have been around for many decades. Kids used to bring their hunting rifles to school all the time for going out with friends after class.

The problem is the new generation is mentally unstable, can't cope, often on meds, influenced negatively by the internet and social media, have parents who increasingly don't parent and lack social skills and the ability to deal with negativity in the actual world. They've grown up in an environment where everyone gets a trophy and you can hide from what you don't like in safe spaces.

These snowflakes are not being prepared for life in the real world.

Kids have gotten bullied for centuries. Only now are they resorting to shooting up schools.



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Yea, but they can give you a ticket for texting and driving when YOU DID NOT CAUSE AN ACCIDENT...

Wouldn’t the equivalent of that comparison really be if it actually caused a wreck it would be illegal???

If you shouldn’t be penalized when you didn’t commit a mass shooting..

Why should I be penalized when I didn’t cause a wreck because I was texting??



posted on May, 25 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Edumakated

Yea, but they can give you a ticket for texting and driving when YOU DID NOT CAUSE AN ACCIDENT...

Wouldn’t the equivalent of that comparison really be if it actually caused a wreck it would be illegal???

If you shouldn’t be penalized when you didn’t commit a mass shooting..

Why should I be penalized when I didn’t cause a wreck because I was texting??




You can go to jail for having a gun even if you have not committed or even a suspect in a crime. You are assumed to be a criminal just by virtue of having the firearm.




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