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Creator god or intelligent design, the facts that inform the theory?

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posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: Deetermined

If i told you i had a fire breathing dragon in my garage, would you believe me? Would you take my word for it? What if all of my friends and even some of yours agreed with me and vouched for my claim? Would you take our word for it?

What would convince you? If you wanted to verify for yourself, what would it take for you to believe?




posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver


What would convince you? If you wanted to verify for yourself, what would it take for you to believe?


For him?

A best selling book, like Harry Potter.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Let just given them the benefit of the doubt and say Christianity is true, for sake of argument.

How would they utilize critical thinking in determining the correct one out of thousands?

Most answers are in truth, thats the Christian sect my family is part of and cause I was young I get dragged along to the churches thereby eventually becoming say.. Baptist.

Coomba98



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:13 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: Deetermined



How did human consciousness originate?


Nobody knows how consciousness originates. All we know is that its a property of the brain.

One day we will figure it out. My opinion is that consciousness is an arising property of the brain components and neural structure. However this is an opinion not a fact.

Coomba98


Even if consciousness is an arising property of the brain, how was the brain formed? The generic answer of "evolution" isn't cutting it, but that's what some of the simpletons here want everyone to believe without a detailed explanation.
The answer is evolution. If you want the long form answer, i would refer you to a college that teaches evolution, because i don’t have four years to teach you everything about evolution, and it is far better that you take an interest in educating yourself so i don’t have to do it for you.

The answer is evolution.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:13 PM
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Here’s an observation.

Not a single religious person in this thread has offered a shred of evidence. There’s been plenty of “can you explain xyz”, but no evidence.

It’s almost like there isn’t any and it’s all juatctajwn on......what’s the word? Oh yeah. Faith.
edit on 2752018 by TerryDon79 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: coomba98


Correct anyone can claim to be a Christian, this particular Christian was a big believer in christian mythology and even did parish work of the local church. He is on records saying that he was never an Atheist.


If "christian mythology" was ever a term that Darwin used, that's a sure clue that he's not, nor has ever been a believer.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:16 PM
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a reply to: Deetermined

Oooooh. You’re one of THOSE xtians.

“Only the way I think christianity is, is the REAL way!”



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:19 PM
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originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: Woodcarver

Let just given them the benefit of the doubt and say Christianity is true, for sake of argument.

How would they utilize critical thinking in determining the correct one out of thousands?

Most answers are in truth, thats the Christian sect my family is part of and cause I was young I get dragged along to the churches thereby eventually becoming say.. Baptist.

Coomba98



10’s of thousands really.

I would want some kind of verifiable, reproducible, double blind experiment that showed me without a doubt that something about it was more than just a terrible story about a ruthless murdering god who only shows mercy to those who bow in submission and toe the company line.

Maybe, if i got to meet him and talk to him for a few hours. Should be well within his means.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: Deetermined

Christian mythology is my wording.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: coomba98


Yet the ones that believe Jesus was God are wrong? How do you know which christian sect of thousands is the correct one?


No, Jesus was God. Using the term "Son of God" is a biblical term for the physical manifestation of God.

As for Christian sects, there is no "right one". I believe that there are people from every sect who have genuine relationships with God and trust in him as their Savior, regardless of how misinformed I think they may be about the doctrine and their interpretation of scripture. It's really about the personal relationship one has with God.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: coomba98


Correct anyone can claim to be a Christian, this particular Christian was a big believer in christian mythology and even did parish work of the local church. He is on records saying that he was never an Atheist.


If "christian mythology" was ever a term that Darwin used, that's a sure clue that he's not, nor has ever been a believer.
Christians also used to murder or incarcerate those who disagree with them, sooo..... i’m sure a lot of people would rather be a fake christian than a dead atheist.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: Deetermined


It's really about the personal relationship one has with God.


Can any of them show any evidence for a sky daddy?



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:23 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: chr0naut

Try reading what I was replying to next time. His “evidence” was the popularity of the bible each year, not total.

So, have YOU got any evidence of a creator? So far all the creationist have been totally lacking in any.


You are a conscious entity.

What is the most likely way for a conscious entity to come into existance? Randomness acting upon nothingness?

Also, you seem to have implied that all supporters of theism are creationists. This is a fale dichotomy.

I, for instance, believe that evolution and chemical abiogenesis are perfectly reasonable explanations of life proccesses and neither preclude specific creation.
I haven’t seen anyone here claim that conscious entities come from randomness acting upon nothingness. They generally come from thier parents, and every time it is by Natural chemical reactions at no point has a creator deity ever been needed to fill in the gaps of our understanding. They don’t teach about gods in biology, they don’t teach about gods in physics, they don’t teach about god in geology, they don’t teach about god in medicine.

Where do they teach about what god can do? Which class can i take to find verifiable experiments that inform me of the properties of god?


They teach directly about the nature and properties of God in Theology, Religious Studies and Philosophy and also to some extent in Ethics, Cosmology, History, Anthropology & etc.

You see, questions of 'where everything ultimately comes from' are on a grand and cosmic scale. Answers like "from their parents" and "natural chemical reactions" (in bold type) falls so short of the mark, one wonders if you actually understand the nature of the questions?

I critically evaluate the knowledge before me and have so far evaluated that I have no adequate differentiator on an intellectual level that causes me to accept or discard any of these ideas. You on the other hand, appear to have gathered a little knowledge and stopped. This is at odds with the fact that you know science is incomplete and that the body of knowledge is growing.

To have stopped the process of critical evaluation and have formed an opinion that excludes other theories, without strong disproof of those theories, sounds particularly unreasoning and unreasonable to me.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: coomba98


Yet the ones that believe Jesus was God are wrong? How do you know which christian sect of thousands is the correct one?


No, Jesus was God. Using the term "Son of God" is a biblical term for the physical manifestation of God.

As for Christian sects, there is no "right one". I believe that there are people from every sect who have genuine relationships with God and trust in him as their Savior, regardless of how misinformed I think they may be about the doctrine and their interpretation of scripture. It's really about the personal relationship one has with God.
One of my favorite things is getting a few christians who’s opinions differ on the magical properties of jesus, and putting them in a pit and watch them rend each other limb from limb until one agrees with the other. So far, none have survived.
edit on 27-5-2018 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Deetermined

If i told you i had a fire breathing dragon in my garage, would you believe me? Would you take my word for it? What if all of my friends and even some of yours agreed with me and vouched for my claim? Would you take our word for it?

What would convince you? If you wanted to verify for yourself, what would it take for you to believe?


I understand where you're coming from. A relationship with God can only be experienced by each individual separately, but it takes a willingness to want to learn about it. It takes a true desire to want to know and understand where we come from and why we exist in the first place. I guess some people are just happy living their lives without wanting to know or even caring. That's just not me.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:27 PM
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a reply to: Deetermined


Jesus was God


So there was no “sacrifice for our sins” because, according to xtians, god can’t die.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:30 PM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: chr0naut

I just asked if you had any evidence of a creator in a thread asking for evidence of a creator.


You have all the evidence you are probably ever going to get.

Evaluate it.

Have you considered that God might not be needy and having to constantly justify existence to those who live in denial about the nature of themselves and the universe they live in?



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:32 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: chr0naut

Try reading what I was replying to next time. His “evidence” was the popularity of the bible each year, not total.

So, have YOU got any evidence of a creator? So far all the creationist have been totally lacking in any.


You are a conscious entity.

What is the most likely way for a conscious entity to come into existance? Randomness acting upon nothingness?

Also, you seem to have implied that all supporters of theism are creationists. This is a fale dichotomy.

I, for instance, believe that evolution and chemical abiogenesis are perfectly reasonable explanations of life proccesses and neither preclude specific creation.
I haven’t seen anyone here claim that conscious entities come from randomness acting upon nothingness. They generally come from thier parents, and every time it is by Natural chemical reactions at no point has a creator deity ever been needed to fill in the gaps of our understanding. They don’t teach about gods in biology, they don’t teach about gods in physics, they don’t teach about god in geology, they don’t teach about god in medicine.

Where do they teach about what god can do? Which class can i take to find verifiable experiments that inform me of the properties of god?


They teach directly about the nature and properties of God in Theology, Religious Studies and Philosophy and also to some extent in Ethics, Cosmology, History, Anthropology & etc.

You see, questions of 'where everything ultimately comes from' are on a grand and cosmic scale. Answers like "from their parents" and "natural chemical reactions" (in bold type) falls so short of the mark, one wonders if you actually understand the nature of the questions?

I critically evaluate the knowledge before me and have so far evaluated that I have no adequate differentiator on an intellectual level that causes me to accept or discard any of these ideas. You on the other hand, appear to have gathered a little knowledge and stopped. This is at odds with the fact that you know science is incomplete and that the body of knowledge is growing.

To have stopped the process of critical evaluation and have formed an opinion that excludes other theories, without strong disproof of those theories, sounds particularly unreasoning and unreasonable to me.
Critical evaluation of knowledge?


knowl·edge
/ˈnäləj/
noun
1.
facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject:


That’s great news!! So you have some facts. Did these facts come from demonstrable evidence? Because that is what is needed to critically evaluate things. I’m sure your next post will be full of critically evaluated facts.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:32 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: coomba98


Correct anyone can claim to be a Christian, this particular Christian was a big believer in christian mythology and even did parish work of the local church. He is on records saying that he was never an Atheist.


If "christian mythology" was ever a term that Darwin used, that's a sure clue that he's not, nor has ever been a believer.
Christians also used to murder or incarcerate those who disagree with them, sooo..... i’m sure a lot of people would rather be a fake christian than a dead atheist.


Are you sure that we're not talking about Christians who were trying to preserve and defend their religion from others who were trying to destroy their religion and them? There are two sides to every story.



posted on May, 27 2018 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut


You have all the evidence you are probably ever going to get.

That’s would be a big fat zero.


Have you considered that God might not be needy and having to constantly justify existence to those who live in denial about the nature of themselves and the universe they live in?

According to the old and new testament, the god in those books IS needy. So why not just poof into existence, riding a dinosaur on a cloud and show everyone it’s real?

Could it be that’s its just a bunch of stories?



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