Originally posted by SomewhereinBetweenStill trying hard to cover up this blatant error singer by not answering the question?
I did answer it just not the answer you like....
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetweenIt's really simple. You are at a loss to defend Moses saying Abe was from UR of the Chaldees
when that was an event still to happen hundreds of years in the future, I don't care what historical information you cite about its various name
changes and history because those citations do not contain UR coming under the Chaldean empire no later than Moses' time.
Again read what I wrote........and I will also post this again so you might read it this time,
The Biblical ancestor of the Hebrew people, Abraham, was born at "Ur of the Chaldees," since the Chaldean people (Chaldees) ruled Babylonia during
the Babylonian captivity (when the Hebrews wrote the Torah).
Ur was one of the oldest and most famous of the Babylonian cities
Because Moses wrote it not Abraham. Now let me ask you something, did you actually read what I wrote? It says that it was put to pen under the
Babalonian exile, well after Moses. If you were to write a story today you would not call it Mesopatamia but you would call it Iraq so your readers
would know just where you are talking about, it is not that hard a concept to understand now is it? If you want to get technical, it refers first to
UR which was of Sumer first, long before Abaraham was even born, as a matter of fact Abrams dad was a high Priest in the culture at UR.
UR (uhr) Place name meaning, "fire oven." An ancient city in lower Mesopotamia that is mentioned in the Bible as Abraham's birthplace. Ur, Kish,
and Uruk were three important population centers in Sumerian and Babylonian civilization. Abraham's family home is alluded to in Genesis 12:1 and
Acts 7:2. The site associated with Ur is located in present-day Iraq, in the lower eastern portion of the Fertile Crescent. It is identified with tell
el-Muqayyar some 350 km (220 mi) southeast of Baghdad. The site is an oval shape and had harbor facilities on the Euphrates River, until its course
shifted twelve miles east from the city's western limit. With the river's shift, the city lost both its population and prominence. Other sites have
been proposed for the biblical Ur, such as Urartu (Turkey) or Urfa (northwest of Haran). Occupation of tell el-Muqayyar began about 4000 B.C. and was
important in Sumerian, Babylonian, and neo-Babylonian cultures. The third dynasty of Ur was its most prosperous and highly developed period. Important
remains discovered were a ziggurat (a three stage, stepped pyramid) and royal tombs. This Sumerian site is most probably to be identified as
Abraham's city of origin. Yet, as with most identifications, such can be questioned.
And yet the definition is just as I said it was, by GEOGRAPHIC location.
CHALDEA (khal dee' uh) refers either to a geographical locality (Chaldea) or to the people who lived there (Chaldeans). Chaldea was situated in
central and southeastern Mesopotamia, i.e., the land between the lower stretches of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Today Chaldea lies in the country
of Iraq, very close to its border with Iran, and touching upon the head of the Persian Gulf.
The Chaldeans In Old Testament times different peoples occupied southeastern Mesopotamia at various times. One such group was the Chaldeans, whose
name derives from the ancient term Kaldai, which refers to several Aramean tribes who moved into lower Mesopotamia between 1000 and 900 B.C. Their new
homeland was a flat, alluvial plain of few natural resources, many marshes, spring flooding, and very hot summers.
Relation to Babylonia At first the Chaldeans lived in tribal settlements, rejecting the urban society of the Babylonians to the northwest--so-called
after the leading city-state of the region, Babylon, to which the Old Testament refers over 300 times. Babylon was once the capital city of the great
King Hammurabi (ca. 1763-1750 B.C.), remembered for the empire he created, and for the famous law code which bears his name.
As time passed, the Chaldeans gradually acquired domination in Babylonia. In the process they also took on the title "Babylonians," or more
exactly, "Neo-Babylonians." As a result, the terms Chaldea(ns) and (Neo-)Babylonia(ns) may be used interchangeably (Ezek. 1:3, RSV, NIV; 12:13,
NIV). See Babylon, History and Religion of.
In the eighth century B.C., the Chaldeans emerged as the champions of resistance against Assyria, a dangerous, aggressive imperial force in upper
Mesopotamia. At this time the Chaldeans begin to appear in the Old Testament, first, as possible allies with Judah against Assyria, but later, as a
direct threat to Judah and Jerusalem.
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetweenAnd you are also at a loss to explain why Abe went south from Beth-el into Egypt then south from
Egypt back into Beth-el.
Well lets see exactly what Gods Word says here shall we?
Gen 11:29 Abram and Nahor both married. The name of Abram's wife was Sarai, and the name of Nahor's wife was Milcah; she was the daughter of Haran,
the father of both Milcah and Iscah.
Gen 11:30 Now Sarai was barren; she had no children.
Gen 11:31 Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set
out from Ur of the Chaldeans
to go to Canaan. But when they came to Haran, they settled there.
Gen 11:32 Terah lived 205 years, and he died in Haran.
So by your reasoning Haran did not exist yet either?
HARAN (Hay' ran) Personal and place name meaning, "mountaineer" or "caravan route." Three men and an important city of northern Mesopotamia
located on the Balik ah River.
Gen 12:1 The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.
Gen 12:2 "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing.
Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
Gen 12:4 So Abram left, as the LORD had told him; and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he set out from Haran.
Gen 12:5 He took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had accumulated and the people they had acquired in Haran, and they set out
for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there.
Gen 12:6 Abram traveled through the land as far as the site of the great tree of Moreh at Shechem. At that time the Canaanites were in the land.
Gen 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your offspring I will give this land." So he built an altar there to the LORD, who had appeared
Gen 12:8 From there he went on toward the hills east of Bethel and pitched his tent, with Bethel
on the west and Ai on the east. There he
built an altar to the LORD and called on the name of the LORD.
Gen 12:9 Then Abram set out and continued toward the Negev.
Gen 12:10 Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe.
Gen 12:11 As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, "I know what a beautiful woman you are.
Gen 12:12 When the Egyptians see you, they will say, 'This is his wife.' Then they will kill me but will let you live.
Gen 12:13 Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you."
Gen 12:14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that she was a very beautiful woman.
Gen 12:15 And when Pharaoh's officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace.
Gen 12:16 He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and
Gen 12:17 But the LORD inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram's wife Sarai.
Gen 12:18 So Pharaoh summoned Abram. "What have you done to me?" he said. "Why didn't you tell me she was your wife?
Gen 12:19 Why did you say, 'She is my sister,' so that I took her to be my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!"
Gen 12:20 Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had.
Gen 13:1 So Abram went up from Egypt to the Negev, with his wife and everything he had, and Lot went with him.
Gen 13:2 Abram had become very wealthy in livestock and in silver and gold.
Gen 13:3 From the Negev he went from place to place until he came to Bethel, to the place between Bethel and Ai where his tent had been earlier
Gen 13:4 and where he had first built an altar. There Abram called on the name of the LORD.
Gen 13:5 Now Lot, who was moving about with Abram, also had flocks and herds and tents.
Gen 13:6 But the land could not support them while they stayed together, for their possessions were so great that they were not able to stay
Gen 13:7 And quarreling arose between Abram's herdsmen and the herdsmen of Lot. The Canaanites and Perizzites were also living in the land at that
So we ask just what is Bethel?
BETHEL (Bethel; house of God) 1. Bethel was important in the Old Testament for both geographic and religious reasons. Because of its abundant
springs, the area was fertile and attractive to settlements as early as 3200 B.C., and first supported a city around the time of Abraham. Today the
village of Beitin rests on much of the ruins of Bethel. Located at the intersection of the main north-south road through the hill country and the main
road from Jericho to the coastal plain, Bethel saw much domestic and international travel. Bethel became a prominent border town between tribes and
the two kingdoms later. Religiously, Bethel served as a sanctuary during the times of the patriarchs, judges, and the divided kingdom, hence was
second only to Jerusalem as a religious center.
Entering Canaan, Abraham built an altar at Bethel, calling "upon the name of the Lord' (Gen. 12:8), and returned here after his time in Egypt
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetweenDo you know why you cannot defend those statements singer? Because they are absolutely
indefensible. The first points to Moses having written the Pentateuch as being a lie, that it could not have been written before 800BCE, and the
latter is just a blatant lie.
And yet the Bible says this, now read carefully ok?
Gen 13:1 So Abram went up from Egypt to the Negev
, with his wife and everything he had, and Lot went with him.
Gen 13:2 Abram had become very wealthy in livestock and in silver and gold.
Gen 13:3 From the Negev he went from place to place until he came to Bethel
, to the place between Bethel and Ai where his tent had been
Originally posted by SomewhereinBetweenSigning off on this one now, as it is obvious you will go to any lengths to defend the lies and
perpetuate the deceit.
Just cause I don't answer in your time frame doesn't mean there is no answer, I see nothing in Gods Word about going South into Bethel, do you?
[edit on 20-2-2005 by edsinger]
[edit on 20-2-2005 by edsinger]