Harley-Davidson cut jobs, repurchased shares after tax cut

a reply to: JinMI

spot on!!! Too worried about financing bad loans and selling merchandise, instead of realizing their bikes are overpriced, their customers are getting older, and they can't compete with newer bikes with their current line ups.

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
How's the trickling down going? I guess I've dropped a penny or two in my lifetime while walking to the to the grocery store. I suppose that's wealth trickling down in action.

House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., in September used a Harley-Davidson plant in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, as a backdrop for touting the GOP tax measure signed by President Donald Trump late last year, Vox relayed. And Mr. Trump met with Harley-Davidson executives and union representatives at the White House in February, saying the company's business would only get better.

Four months after Ryan's appearance at the Harley-Davidson factory in his home state, 800 workers in Kansas City, Missouri, were told they'd be out of jobs when their plant closes in 2019 and operations shift to York, Pennsylvania, resulting in a net loss of 350 jobs.

Only days after the Kansas City layoff news, Harley-Davidson announced a dividend hike and stock buyback plan worth about $696 million.

The Kansas City plant's closure came as Harley-Davidson is struggling with declining sales and rising costs. It's also consolidating operations at three other factories.

www.cbsnews.com...

Oh it gets worse. Reports are, Harley Davidson plans to move their factory to Bangkok, Thailand:

As with Wells Fargo and Carrier, we're once again learning that trickle down economics is a sham and the American people are paying for it. But hey who cares right? So long as you got your $1500 tax return you're fine for the year right? You can finally buy that Apple computer you always wanted! Meanwhile more jobs are lost, more folks are left unemployed, healthcare cuts continue, costs increase. On the light side you'd be contributed to the economy I guess by spending that tax cut... which is good.... unless that money falls right back into debt?

Omg! Higher taxes produce more jobs! You're a genius!

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Harley has been struggling for years, "mostly because they make overpriced junk" so what does the tax cut have to do with it?

thats bull#.

those bikes are far from junk. ive owned a couple and been around them my entire life.

ive been hearing this # back to the 80's when i was a kid.
harleys suck man. the leak oil. they will leave you stranded.

bull#.
fantastic bikes.

i am not vouching for service and that kind of #. strictly talking about their bikes.
they make a great bike.

harley owners are a loyal group too.

ive not known any people that had a harley and gave it up for something else cause they were junk. quite the opposite

Harley has to cut costs... their bikes are super expensive and younger riders are looking for cheaper bikes. Harley has failed to figure out what the market is really looking for product mix wise beyond their aging core demographic of aging dentists who like pirate cosplay.

a reply to: Blaine91555

i dont know why you posted that.

i already said indian is their main comp

a reply to: Edumakated

Harley has to cut costs... their bikes are super expensive and younger riders are looking for cheaper bikes. Harley has failed to figure out what the market is really looking for product mix wise beyond their aging core demographic of aging dentists who like pirate cosplay.

I agree. Harley has failed the market. For whatever reason they can no longer compete and now have to seek green pastures abroad. But Harley's matters need not be our concern. Why are they getting a record tax cut? Why are they getting incentives they, you yourself know full well, won't change their circumstances given their business model? We're handing out billions in subsidies and tax cuts like candycanes at the circus with the assumption these general cuts will make a difference to what is a declining US market. They're not.

a reply to: jhin1place

how many bikes have you had?
how many harleys?

just curious

yamaha raider
www.yamahamotorsports.com...

$15,199

honda valkyrie
powersports.honda.com...

$17,999

suzuki boulevard
www.suzukicycles.com...

$14,999

harley low rider
www.harley-davidson.com...

14,999

so yeah

a reply to: Southern Guardian

i think a big part of it is they have no sport bikes. i know that is not what harley is about but there is a HUGE market for rockets man.
a new R1 is gonna cost you 11 grand or so and people buy the # out of them.

off street stuff like quads and such is a different animal but the younger crowd likes those sport bikes.



edit
17k for an R1
by the time you pay it off at a 60 month loan its worth dick

a reply to: rickymouse

no one can afford to buy Harley's anymore, I mean seriously how many Millennial's can afford a Harley?

Let me clue you in, not many!!!

a reply to: Southern Guardian

Your solution is to increase their expenses and drive them under? Increase what they have to charge to make them less competitive?

The problem here is that you are trying to make what happens to a single company proof of anything at all. That is just not an honest way to view it.

If you're for higher taxes, less profits and lower wages just say so.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: Blaine91555

i dont know why you posted that.

i already said indian is their main comp

Just linking to an article about it? I had no other intent. You have too much coffee today perhaps

a reply to: Blaine91555

the logic required to believe that higher taxes make your company more profitable is at best, very bad

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: Southern Guardian

i think a big part of it is they have no sport bikes. i know that is not what harley is about but there is a HUGE market for rockets man.
a new R1 is gonna cost you 11 grand or so and people buy the # out of them.

off street stuff like quads and such is a different animal but the younger crowd likes those sport bikes.



edit
17k for an R1
by the time you pay it off at a 60 month loan its worth dick

Harley used to own MV Agusta and screwed it up. They also had Buell and screwed it up.

Harleys are way too expensive and you are mostly paying for chrome and fancy paint. Fully dressed Road & Street Glides pushing $30k? WTF?

I almost bought a Triumph Bobber earlier this year... it was like $12k. I'll probably buy a BMW 1200 GS Adventure. Around $24k. Has way more tech and features than any Harley.

The BMW k1600 bagger is far and away a better bike than any Harley right now. Sure, it doesn't have the rumble of the v twin but it still puts out 160hp out of a six... Harley can't touch it performance wise nor with any of the ride tech. The new Goldwing bagger is way better too.

If you just want that retro v twin I guess a Harley is fine, but they are really lacking imho in the product development department. They haven't been able to attract millenials who seem more interested in cafe, bobbers, etc. Triumph, Royal Enfield, Indian, and other brands seem to have figured out that that market.

You go into a Harley dealer and show interest in a Sportster and the douchy sales guy will ask if it is for your wife....

a reply to: toysforadults

i dont think its they cant afford it. i think its the fact they are not into that style bike.

i see all kinds of millennials rolling their new wrx's and sti's.

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: TinySickTears
a reply to: Blaine91555

i dont know why you posted that.

i already said indian is their main comp

Just linking to an article about it? I had no other intent. You have too much coffee today perhaps

didnt have any coffee.
just didnt know why you posted it and what you were trying to show me

a reply to: TinySickTears

that could be true, my brother has a bike but it's far less than 15k

a reply to: TinySickTears

Indian in regards to US bikes. The international market also plays into the broader scheme.

a reply to: toysforadults

You think people will actually think about who they are voting for other than just ticking a box that is either LEFT or RIGHT.

Harley's have lost their appeal over the last decade and a half, for one they make way to many models that people don't want, they are just as expensive as Ducati's they should have started down sizing long ago and stuck with the old faithfuls.

Once again another American company trying to keep up with better products from elsewhere in a world of globalization, makes you really think, American made stuff was crap all along to be honest.

Just to add to the topic, my company just bought out an american steel company and took 51% of another, and established a branch in New York city, just finished a 76 story sky scraper in Manhattan and we're also one of the major structural steel suppliers for a major project in New Jersey, using Canadian Iron workers too.
How's that MAGA going?

a reply to: Edumakated

yeah.
a full dresser or a cvo is in the 30's

theyre cruisers are in line with yamaha, honda, and suzuki. i posted links.

people keep saying their bikes are crap or so and so makes a better bike.

how are they crap?

not everyone wants 160HP on their cruiser.
i dont.
my twin cam is just fine

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: TinySickTears

Indian in regards to US bikes. The international market also plays into the broader scheme.

yeah when i think about any vehicle market i really only think about the states.

i posted links to comparable cruisers from 3 japanese manufacturers and the price point is the same.

in the end i dont really care.
i dig the 2015 but i like the older bikes either way.

ill take a shovelhead over any of the new # any time.