The Pope on Homosexuality

a reply to: toms54

Where did you hear that, sounds a bit strange

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: toms54

originally posted by: Sigismundus
a reply to: visitedbythem

Should we assume that you likewise avoid shellfish in your diet and feel the need to refrain from mixing linen and cotton threads together in the same outfit or make it a point never to cut your hair to avoid offending YHWH for committing such ‘vile’ ritual-breaches of the holiness-code of the post-exilic Levitical priesthood?

Just a thought

i believe there are people that try to do all of that.

I don't eat shellfish, or any other meat

I once read that before the flood, no one ate meat. Noah sacrificed the first animal when the ark landed. Most of the plants were destroyed. So now we eat meat but it wasn't that way in the beginning.

God made clothing for Adam and Eve. I wonder where that one went?

originally posted by: ATruGod

originally posted by: visitedbythem
It doesn't matter what the pope says. He is just a man, and men cannot forgive sins regardless of what he says.

Scripture is very clear about Same sex sin. They spell it out very clearly.

Scripture was written by Men also...as well as translated and edited (many times)!

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: toms54

Where did you hear that, sounds a bit strange

I was reading an article about the Essenes. They were supposed to be vegetarian and this is what they taught. According to the article.

I don't recall reading about any animal sacrifices before Noah.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Genesis 1:29 KJV

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

So humans and animals were both vegetarian.

originally posted by: DpatC
Gay people are not sinners.

Just FYI, gay people are human. All humans are sinners. Just because God loves us all does not mean we are not held accountable for sinful behavior.

The act of homosexuality is a sinful act. So is premarital heterosexual sex and heterosexual adultery. Heterosexuals are just as prone to sexually sinful acts as homosexuals. This does not prevent people from seeking God's forgiveness, as long as they are sincere in their conviction.

Anyways, carry on.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
...
The act of homosexuality is a sinful act. ...

What is the "act of homosexuality"? And why is it a sin?

The lazy answer is "sexual attraction or sexual behavior between members of the same sex", right?

Wrong.
Homosexuality - or human sexuality - is a lot more complex than just sex. It's emotional, romantic, affectionate, tender and harsh, warm and cold, exciting and boring, infatuating, intimate and hormonal. It is a relationship. It is love.

So, again - in context of the Bible and the parts it's mentioned: Why is it a sin?
Theologically and culturally speaking you'll find the answer exceptionally stale.

originally posted by: Gemwolf

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
...
The act of homosexuality is a sinful act. ...

What is the "act of homosexuality"? And why is it a sin?

The lazy answer is "sexual attraction or sexual behavior between members of the same sex", right?

Wrong.
Homosexuality - or human sexuality - is a lot more complex than just sex. It's emotional, romantic, affectionate, tender and harsh, warm and cold, exciting and boring, infatuating, intimate and hormonal. It is a relationship. It is love.

So, again - in context of the Bible and the parts it's mentioned: Why is it a sin?
Theologically and culturally speaking you'll find the answer exceptionally stale.

I think it is a sin because it does not produce children. I mean, that is man's purpose. Isnt it the only thing he really ordered us to do? Go forth and multiply.

originally posted by: toms54
...
I think it is a sin because it does not produce children. I mean, that is man's purpose. Isnt it the only thing he really ordered us to do? Go forth and multiply.

With that reasoning it is a sin to be single, use birth control or be unable to reproduce due to medical problems. Your list would also including menopausal women and impotent men.

If you read the Bible you'll find that "go forth and multiply" is not the only "order" (I'll get back to this). There are many orders and instructions and rules and laws. Some even contradicting.

But if I were to quote a single "order" it would be Mark 16:15:

“Then he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.”

In my personal opinion that's a much more sensible instruction than "go have babies".

By the way, that verse is a very random verse to choose, seeing that this was a specific instruction to Noah right after (according to Genesis) God wiped the entire human race from the face of the earth. The "order" makes much more sense in the context of Noah and his family being the only people on earth...

Your jump from that single verse to homosexuality being a sin is, I'm afraid, fallacious.

a reply to: Gemwolf

"With that reasoning it is a sin to be single, use birth control or be unable to reproduce due to medical problems. Your list would also including menopausal women and impotent men." These are involuntary states at least for most people. Rather than single, I would think celibate but yes, that is an unnatural state of existence. Reproduction is the most powerful drive that exists as evidenced by all of the people around us. Society is organized around this principal.

But if I were to quote a single "order" it would be Mark 16:15:


“Then he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.”

There does seem to be those people whose primary goal in life is this. It doesn't really sustain humanity, perhaps it preserves it.

I was trying to respond to a question: Why is homosexuality considered a sin? Are you saying it is a sin because it somehow interferes with preaching?

originally posted by: Sigismundus
a reply to: visitedbythem
refrain from mixing linen and cotton threads together in the same outfit

I wish people would. That level of degradation makes me sick to the core.

If this were geopolitics it would be called appeasement.
Just Czechoslovakia, I swear that's the last place I'll invade.

a reply to: Gemwolf

We are talking about different types of love.

Eros is erotic love. Erotic love is sanctioned within the marital bond only. God sanctions marriage as between one man and one woman. All other types of erotic love are outside that bond.

Brotherly love, filial love which are also forms of love that carry warmth and affection, or agape, also carrying deep, natural affection are not bound by this stricture and are never wrong and can be found between anyone and everyone.

originally posted by: toms54
These are involuntary states at least for most people. Rather than single, I would think celibate but yes, that is an unnatural state of existence. Reproduction is the most powerful drive that exists as evidenced by all of the people around us. Society is organized around this principal.

So all priests and nuns are living in sin by being celibate? And that would also make Paul extremely "sinful" as he was very proud of his celibacy. (See 1 Corinthians 7). As a matter of fact he says “It’s good for a man not to have sex with a woman” and further "I’m telling those who are single and widows that it’s good for them to stay single like me". As a matter of fact the whole of 1 Corinthians 7 contradicts your believes that God's orders is to "Go forth and multiply"... I think if those were His orders the Bible would a completely different format...

Yes, reproduction is a powerful drive in most - if not all - living organisms. But that does not equate to NOT wanting to or not being able to reproduce. Our society is not organized around reproduction. Organized around money, power, politics and agendas - maybe, but not reproduction.

originally posted by: toms54

There does seem to be those people whose primary goal in life is this. It doesn't really sustain humanity, perhaps it preserves it.

I was trying to respond to a question: Why is homosexuality considered a sin? Are you saying it is a sin because it somehow interferes with preaching?

You suggested a "most important command God gave" and I offered a different one. I don't think homosexuality is a sin. My question to the poster (why is homosexuality a sin) was not a rhetorical question, but rather a suggestion to the poster to investigate or at least challenge the idea that "homosexuality is a sin".

originally posted by: ketsuko
...
Eros is erotic love. Erotic love is sanctioned within the marital bond only. God sanctions marriage as between one man and one woman. All other types of erotic love are outside that bond.
...

And who decided this?

a reply to: DpatC

Love is love and biology is biology, there is no fault in being a homosexual-hell i've seen a female German shepherd dry hump another dog-so why hasn't the citizens of San Francisco and Los Angeles-well known for their gay and hedonistic lifestyles-been destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah?

These 'pedo priests' are the height of Hypocrisy, they can bang on about 'it's Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve' but then engage in illegal sexual acts with young boys! And wasn't it god who created humans? so therefore he created homosexuals, and why are some devotees so against something that god created? that's like me hating my toaster while eating toast.

a reply to: DpatC The issue here is the hypocrisy of the Catholic church. Take for example their sometime stance on birth control. Think of the suffering that has occurred world wide by woman pumping out one child after the next that they can not afford.

Now, the church is either finding it more profitable to accept gays, or the Pope thinks his opinion supersedes the rules of the church.

The Catholic church has a history of deception, atrocities and abuse and whatever they call God's Will is to benefit those that rule behind the scenes. One rule that will never change is their rule about tithing 10 % unless of course, they can manipulate that higher.

I don't know how folks can allow their kids to affiliate with a group that encourages and protects pediphiles, talk about programming.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
...so why hasn't the citizens of San Francisco and Los Angeles-well known for their gay and hedonistic lifestyles-been destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah?

God is very, very busy directing field goal kicks through the uprights and hasn't gotten around to it yet. He has priorities you know.

a reply to: Gemwolf

Yes, all celibate people are living an unnatural life, including priests. I don't know that it is sinful but I believe it is not natural. Perhaps it makes a kind of sense in that the priest is holy and must be separate from the profane but I believe priests should be permitted to marry. Perhaps then we would see less sexual irregularities in the church. Many denominations permit their priests to marry.

Society is organized around reproduction. I am talking about the very structure of society - family units of one type or another. If this were not true, mankind would cease to exist. It is fundamental to the survival of the human race.

I don't care if you are gay or if you support homosexuality. Ii don't want to judge anyone. I was just trying to figure why the Bible teaches that. Maybe you have a better answer.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

When's the last time you saw God sin or make an excuse or cause man to do anything against his own will?

Who are you to pass judgement on something you have no belief in nor understanding of?

You are free to disbelieve and or hate God...
Is that him or you deciding to do so?