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Hope and Change for the left.

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posted on May, 20 2018 @ 09:48 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: ketsuko

So you both pay for healthcare. The difference is, if you can no longer pay for yours you're done unless you qualify for disability or are a senior citizen. Even then, it's not great but at least its something but you'll still have big bills to pay.


And with the other system, if the state decides at any point that you are not worthy of being treated or they don't want to offer a treatment, then you don't have any options. Heck, the state can even order you to die because they can decide it's in your best interests even if outside parties have the means to offer you treatment elsewhere.

I fail to see much difference in this.

But I prefer not to be stuck in a system that could end up with all the charm and success of our average public school in offering health care.




posted on May, 20 2018 @ 09:54 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: network dude
By the end of Trumps term, not Trump will be about all they need. The gates will be open for a whole new level of corruption. And you can think Trump for that.

For spearheading an administration so dirty even the director of the office of government ethics resigns, rather than have to deal with the multitude of daily ethics violations. I understand it’s all fun and games when it’s Trump doing it, but what about when people are tired of him and those democrats you hate so much now have the same ethical leeway that Trump now has?

Part of me thinks this has been the plan all along. Get someone as devoid of ethics as Donald Trump in the Oval Office, whip his supporters up into such a frenzy they won’t question his actions or really even investigate them, then boot him out. Now when the next guy comes in (who will undoubtedly be a democrat) the bar is set so low that they can get away with anything.

When the shoe is on the other foot I think it’ll be time for self reflection for a lot of people.


See, the thing is, it was obama and the dems that set the bar so low that now Trump can get away with all this crap that you claim he is getting away with. You act like Trump was the first stone to be thrown. He wasn't. This is the snap back from 8 years of obama. That is how bad obama was. I don't think Trump should be POTUS. But after 8 years of obama the last thing I would ever consider is another obama bunk mate, especially a clinton!

So the choice was clear: 8 more years of liberal bs or a shot at something better, or at lest different. I will take a slim chance over no chance every time.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

But does the state actually ever do that or are you just parroting some right wing propaganda? Maybe our Canadian friend will chime in and provide some answers on your assumptions the state will not pay for your coverage and just let you die.

That said, private health insurers do that all the time! Deny coverage, refuse to pay for treatments, but here you are afraid of the state! Are you also attacking these private health insurers?



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: mc_squared



...because from the start they've seen an obvious megalomaniacal narcissist, someone who is clearly only interested in his personal welfare and ego. Someone who is also easily manipulated by other sociopaths in his same demographic. He represents the people to the extent that he craves their adoring adulation, but he's able to extort that with the same predictable tropes described above, blaming others, immigrants, etc - all while saying dumb sh!t like “drain the swamp” as he fills his cabinet with obvious cronies like Scott Pruitt, Steve Mnuchin, Ajit Pai, his own family, etc.


Change a few names and he to she...and you have hillary (appropriately) in a nut shell.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 10:04 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

Hillary would have been awful but she's not POTUS. She's just a private citizen now so why even bother to deflect anymore? Let her go and move on.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 10:09 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Hillary would have been awful but she's not POTUS. She's just a private citizen now so why even bother to deflect anymore? Let her go and move on.


Its not deflection, its a direct response to the initial post. OP suggested that Trump is setting the bar so low that the next dem in office will just be that much worse. It was, in fact, the dems who set the bar that low and Trump was the inevitable response to their political face plant. hillary is just an extension of the same liberal Chicago corruption-cloth as obama.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

Well, can't argue with that! The DNC was plum out of cash and Hillary came riding in with bags of money in exchange for their loyalty because she wanted to be POTUS for herself, a selfish act. I suppose anyone running for POTUS is doing it for themselves but she took it to whole new level of selfishness and corruption. Then the old hag has the gull to blame everyone and everything under the sun for her loss but I know when she looks in the mirror pondering what happened that it was her fault all along.

If she dare tries to run in 2020 I'm gonna lose my sugar honey ice tea!
edit on 20-5-2018 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 11:49 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
I have good news for all those on the left.
As of right now, there are 897 days until the next election. That means that you will have the ability to vote in a leader who more fits your views of what the United States should be run like.

But as a conservative, I have a really hard time understanding what the message is. What you stand for. What you want for the future of the US.
I'd like to know who you see as a viable option for your version of leader. I'd like to know what changes you want to see. Hell, I might agree with some of them. Others too.

So rather than tell you what I think you are about, I want to listen and learn.


Well, that's actually a nice gesture; listening and asking rather than telling us.

What I'd like:
** healthcare reform. Improve Obamacare (the niece of a friend (a toddler) has to have surgery. The only way they can afford it now is GoFundMe. The friend of another friend died while trying to get GoFundMe for his insulin. This should not happen to anyone.) When we have affordable health care for everyone, we get more people staying in the workforce and in the long run it's cheaper (fewer calls on emergency services, etc.)

** Some sort of reasonable national gun control laws. I'm tired of seeing schools shot up and kids terrified.

** Planned parenthood funding retained. I volunteered with them long ago - and they were the ones who gave me free health care and birth control pills (and medical care when I was pregnant) when I was first married. Texas has the highest mortality rate for young mothers. Planned Parenthood clinics could do a lot to reduce that (as well as testing and counseling for STDs and so forth.)

** US involvement in the UN. No, I'm not afraid of globalization - it will happen with or without us. If it happens without us, we get no say in the ultimate direction. I want a say in things and when there's peace negotiations in other parts of the world, I want us to have a seat at the table and I want us helping write the terms.

** Campaign reform - A number of countries actually ban electioneering outside of a certain time period. I'd love to see that. I also want term limits on Congress, restrictions on gerrymandering (our districts are stupid... really), and getting rid of the electoral college.

** Student debt reform. Enough, already with the usurious lending and the staggering debt. I'd love for college to be free but right now the funding isn't there.

** more money for science and space exploration. That's one thing I loved about the 1960's.

** On a national level, I want to see empty government positions filled by people who know something about the situation. Let's have environmental scientists running the EPA, etc.

** Support for alternative energy development. We can't keep doing this oil bit, and coal is not much better.

** Immigration reform -- make it easier for temporary workers to get in, and make it easier for the average person who marries a US citizen to get citizenship (right now, it's a long and byzantine process.)

** I'd love to see the national minimum wage raised.

** Increase taxes on the rich. By quite a bit. So they can't buy a yacht for each kid this year... they can buy health care for a lot of sick kids instead.

** more oversight on charter schools.

** VA reform. Too many soldiers commit suicide or end up homeless. Charities can't handle all of them.

** Close some of the tax loopholes for the wealthy (and end some of that corporate welfare, too.)

** Restoring parks. We need more wild spaces.

** Puerto Rico becoming a state (and let's fix the infrastructure, too. It's a lovely place, and home to one of the biggest astronomical research facilities on the planet.)

** Reform and social services (and money) for Native American reservations. The living conditions there are worse than some third world countries.

** Equal Rights Amendment passed (no, we're not all equal)

** Support for programs that teach police more nonviolent methods of intervention

** Support for school programs that teach nonviolent conflict resolution

** Cut down the number of standardized tests (one at the end of middle school, one at the end of high school is plenty.) Develop a national "trades track" like they have in Europe that does not assume everyone should be prepped for college.

** Internet privacy regulations (the rest of the world is going towards this. We should be leading the charge; not standing around looking dumbfounded.)

** Net neutrality. 'Nuff said.

** Protection for LGBT folks - marriage, equal rights.

Those are all the ones I think of off the top of my head that are legislated and in the purveyance of Congress. There are other social and legal changes I'd like to see, but they are States Rights issues or social issues and not within the boundaries of what the President or Congress can do.

I'm sure if I wasn't just going off the cuff, I could come up with a better list but it's late and I'm too tired right now to think of anything more.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 12:00 AM
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a reply to: Byrd



** Puerto Rico becoming a state (and let's fix the infrastructure, too. It's a lovely place, and home to one of the biggest astronomical research facilities on the planet.)

This is definitely one of the positions I share that the national Democratic Party seems to want no piece of. Puerto Ricans are US Citizens at birth and Puerto Rico has more Americans than 20 or so current States (HERE).



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 12:04 AM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: RAY1990


Why do people who are so caught up in politics really care what any political group are going to promise?


Oh, I don't know, it probably has something to do with non-affordable health care, illegal immigrants sucking up resources and jobs, inflation growing faster than wages, the need for capable law enforcement; do I really need to go on?

Ignoring it certainly isn't going to help.


I haven't ignored it, I grew up in a very poor area and the issues you talk about are ones I've naturally followed in attempts to understand my history, my existence and the future.

Top heavy politics hasn't solved anything where I live, I tell you what has though... Petitioning to my local MP. Going out and volunteering or actually talking to people I share a community with about these issues.

Can illegal immigrants actually get resources from the government?

I hear that one often, I hear it in the UK too and I often have to raise the point that you cannot, I repeat CAN NOT get social housing, benefits or healthcare if you're an illegal immigrant... Knowing one or two people who were illegally here , I know for a fine fact that they wouldn't even try for the simple fact they are here illegally. I'm talking about people who would think twice about going to a hospital after being severely beaten.

Illegal immigrants get paid pennies/cents to your pounds/dollars, wanna fix that mess? Out the scum who hire them, the ones that live in your own community. It's always easy to blame those who literally can't defend themselves.

No political group is ever going to fix inflation, we're talking about politicians who are in the pockets of billionaires and I've lost optimism in that regard because we still destroy other nations for a quick buck, so you can have "cheap" consumerist crap... Support your local baker, buy at the grocers. Boycott the mega corporations. Are you seeing a theme here?

I'm talking about your community and what you can do for it, how those macro problems can be tackled on a micro scale.

Law enforcement and medicine... The latter is somewhat tricky, regulations and big pharma are two intrinsically woven entities but the former?

Look after your community, I don't expect anyone to give a beat down to destructive people although once upon a time that's exactly what a Bobby would do, criminals either got smart or locked up. It's actually much easier for you or me to aid law enforcement on matters of criminality.

Again, don't go literally fighting crime but once upon a time someone in the community would slap seven shades of # out of a car thief and the community would be somewhat grateful for it. These days you can just record them and pass on such information.

We've got all the tools to support our communities, it's never been easier. It's a friggin cop out to say "woe onto me" and expect government to fix everything.

Ultimately we need big local government and a little national government, look to Switzerland and it's Canton governmental system, it works wonders and pretty much enables individuals to be part of politics and the community. I think that's what a lot of the Western world needs. Instead of this desolation of politics we have today.

Apologies if my tone seems aggressive, sometimes you have to be vehement to get your point across.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

That is a great list of things to improve. But I don't think we will always agree on how to improve them.

Healthcare - obamacare was a mistake and never should have happened. Letting lots of smaller companies join together for buying power is a better idea. And I like the idea of letting insurance companies take contracts from anywhere. More competition means better prices.

Gun control laws - we have too many already and it has been proven that they do not solve the problem. Armed resources at schools works far better and does not infringe on Constitutional rights.

Planned parenthood - I am a pro choice person except for late term abortions, but not everyone is. Removing funding for abortion but retaining other services would be ok with me.

The UN - if they actually provided a valuable service I would say be part of it, but we shouldn't be their biggest source of funding.

Campaign reform - I agree except for dropping the electoral college. We should keep that until we can be absolutely certain that there is no voter fraud including votes from illegal aliens. If there is no electoral college we need to know for a fact that only Americans voting legally are deciding who our nations leaders should be.

Everything else you said I could agree with, at least in part.

To add to that list I would:

End any kind of government aid for non-citizens, and end foreign aid to countries that are a threat to us or our allies. If we want a fast track to citizenship do it in the form of military service.

Pass a "you cant have it both ways" law. For example, if you want to buy insurance but are obese (a significant problem in the US) the insurance company will ask your height and weight. If you don't fit their chart properly they will either make the insurance so expensive you could never afford it or deny you coverage altogether because your weight is "a serious health risk". On the other hand, if that very same person already has health insurance and says, "I need help losing weight and getting healthy" the same insurance company says, "Weight loss is considered cosmetic, affecting appearance only, and is not covered." Pick a side... In their own words: if you are overweight they will charge you more because of the way you look. That should be illegal - period.

The difference between conservatives and liberals isn't always what we want but rather how we plan to get it. It is my personal belief that for liberals the end justifies the means. For conservatives, the means are in many cases yet another problem to be dealt with.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 06:51 AM
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a reply to: Byrd

A lot of great ideas here. Id bet most folks would support at least 80% of this.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
I have good news for all those on the left.
As of right now, there are 897 days until the next election. That means that you will have the ability to vote in a leader who more fits your views of what the United States should be run like.

But as a conservative, I have a really hard time understanding what the message is. What you stand for. What you want for the future of the US.
I'd like to know who you see as a viable option for your version of leader. I'd like to know what changes you want to see. Hell, I might agree with some of them. Others too.

So rather than tell you what I think you are about, I want to listen and learn.


No one in the Democrat party really comes to mind. I would like to see Elizabeth Warren run, but I don't think she would be a terrific President even though she understands the banking system. Otherwise I want to see Kasich challenge Trump for the Republican primary.

I have stances on issues, but so far none of the typical Democrats with a nationally recognizable name come near those stances.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: burgerbuddy

Trump doesn't work for $1/year. Though just Mar a Lago he's personally pocketing $75 million a year in selling access to himself.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: YouSir

Electric vehicles ? Look into the real cost.. At this stage IMO it is just another scam being touted as something good when in reality........ it may be good for the few but it does not appear to be good for the average Joe..

From an email author unknown..



A Different Aspect About Electric Cars!!
INTERESTING - IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYINGA GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE! WHO WILL BEAR THE BURDEN?
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile has never been discussed.
All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with not a mention of the cost to run it.
This is the first article I’ve ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet it’s being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive…I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approx. 25 homes),the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla charge.
For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load.
So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following.
Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It’s enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes,
"For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.” Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.
Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg.
$3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $010 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $20,000 while the Volt costs $46,000-plus.
So the Canadian and American Governments wants loyal citizens not to do the math, but simply pay three times as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: Swills

Yes, it does.

I've seen people talk about it in disease forums. Very often, the state decides what the state approved treatments will be. If there are other treatments beyond that range, you are SOL.

Sometimes, there will be a treatment that is more expensive and works with less side effects, but the older treatment with worse side effects will be kept just because it's much cheaper. People will try to get the newer treatment because they don't tolerate the older one, but the state will deny for cost reasons.

Sometimes, if you live in a district with a slightly bigger budget because it has less people than another, you will have access to treatment others won't because of that reason, and if you live in a packed district, your options will be sh!t.

It's a lot like school districting here in the states.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 08:12 AM
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a reply to: 727Sky

Not to mention ... no one ever addresses where the electricity to charge those cares comes from. Our electric grid is a fossil to begin with. You cannot expect all of America's drivers to suddenly begin charging their cars on it without drastic consequences.

And that's before we get into all the toxic mining and manufacturing required to make the batteries.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 08:53 AM
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No such thing as hope and change.....only US lies.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: Byrd





Thanks for putting the effort into your answer. It was appreciated.
I listed your points I felt I could address with my opinions below. It seems we do agree on some key points. Imagine if we did this more often and instead of digging into what we don't agree on, we worked on what we did.

** Some sort of reasonable national gun control laws. I'm tired of seeing schools shot up and kids terrified.

I would like to see the mental health system be more than a pill mill, and see some honest discssion about what drives a person to shoot other kids, before we take the easy way out and blame the gun. This issue has many parts and the gun is only one of them. Until people are ready to let go of the political aspects, this will not change and kids will continue to die. (IMHO)

** Campaign reform - A number of countries actually ban electioneering outside of a certain time period. I'd love to see that. I also want term limits on Congress, restrictions on gerrymandering (our districts are stupid... really), and getting rid of the electoral college.

I'd like to see lobbying made illegal, term limits in congress, Campaigns all have equal air time and monitary input, so all candidates had a fair shake to get their message out. And prosecuting any and all who break the rules when campagining or in office. Accouintability needs to be paramount.

** On a national level, I want to see empty government positions filled by people who know something about the situation. Let's have environmental scientists running the EPA, etc.
Agree.

** Support for alternative energy development. We can't keep doing this oil bit, and coal is not much better.
Agree. I'd like to find out how much technology has been surpressed by big oil, ans see if anything can be used to make our world better, and not just increase profits.

** Immigration reform -- make it easier for temporary workers to get in, and make it easier for the average person who marries a US citizen to get citizenship (right now, it's a long and byzantine process.)

Yes. Make the path to citizenship easier, and make the laws enforceable, and our borders more secure to illegal entry. If you want to come here, do it the right way, our forefathers did.

** Increase taxes on the rich. By quite a bit. So they can't buy a yacht for each kid this year... they can buy health care for a lot of sick kids instead.
You need to look into this some. Rich folks pay a lot of taxes already. You shouldn't be penalized for doing well. Maybe incentives for outreach projects or something to encourage helping those less fortunate, but voluntary. (semi agree)

** VA reform. Too many soldiers commit suicide or end up homeless. Charities can't handle all of them.
Yes, 100%. Make vets a priority and do something about addiction issues. That seems to be the driving factor in homelessness.
** Restoring parks. We need more wild spaces.
agree.

** Puerto Rico becoming a state (and let's fix the infrastructure, too. It's a lovely place, and home to one of the biggest astronomical research facilities on the planet.)
agree.

** Reform and social services (and money) for Native American reservations. The living conditions there are worse than some third world countries.
Agree.

** Cut down the number of standardized tests (one at the end of middle school, one at the end of high school is plenty.) Develop a national "trades track" like they have in Europe that does not assume everyone should be prepped for college.

This goes hand in hand with trying to fix the college debt issue. Trades are needed and can be valuable to all. This should be a path in High School with some additional programs.



posted on May, 21 2018 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
** Support for alternative energy development. We can't keep doing this oil bit, and coal is not much better.
Agree. I'd like to find out how much technology has been surpressed by big oil, ans see if anything can be used to make our world better, and not just increase profits.


I don't like Sean Hannity much, but one area where I believe he is 100% correct is on energy policy. The US energy policy shouldn't be coal, or oil, or renewables. It should be all of the above. I'm ok with subsidies for developing technology, for a time but I don't want them to be necessary for the industry to take off eventually either. There are a lot of ways to generate energy, and I think they should all be in the market to one extent or another. If something becomes noncompetitive, it can phase out for better technology (as we're seeing with natural gas replacing coal right now).

Where government does need to get out of the way though isn't so much in regulations (clean air and water are good things), but rather in it's reluctance to issue permits. It is very hard to build power plants of any type in the US, and the more high tech you go, the harder it is. Nuclear for example is pretty much impossible despite it being such a good energy source. This is something we need to address, and it's something that I believe should be bipartisian... you make your power plants, we'll make ours, and the market can decide what it prefers. But it's not that simple in reality.



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