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Hope and Change for the left.

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posted on May, 20 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: network dude

As a human being from the UK with no actual political affiliations I must ask this:

What does it matter ?

Why do people who are so caught up in politics really care what any political group are going to promise?

Why do people constantly look to other people who are usually a world a way from them, people they'll never meet to come and "save" them?

Why the hell to you think any of these politicians represent you?

They only give a damn about your support, about your money... How hard you're going to wave their flag. Once they're in power they don't give a crap about you or any individual. Unless your a billionaire or part of lobbyist group, OE running a nation.

Wave your own damn flag, support people who actually represent your community. Go be a part of your community.

And for goodness sake insist on bringing a little humanity back to politics. Consensus of the people ya know?

No wonder people become disillusioned with politics, picking the lesser of too evils.. Politics is full of power hungry morons, the wilfully ignorant and mouth pieces who think their side is the greatest thing to grace earth since Jesus Christ.




posted on May, 20 2018 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: underwerks


For spearheading an administration so dirty even the director of the office of government ethics resigns, rather than have to deal with the multitude of daily ethics violations. I understand it’s all fun and games when it’s Trump doing it, but what about when people are tired of him and those democrats you hate so much now have the same ethical leeway that Trump now has?


Seriously??!! How do you think Trump got into office in the first place? Obama and Clinton's rotten ethics are what led us to where we are!



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: underwerks


For spearheading an administration so dirty even the director of the office of government ethics resigns, rather than have to deal with the multitude of daily ethics violations. I understand it’s all fun and games when it’s Trump doing it, but what about when people are tired of him and those democrats you hate so much now have the same ethical leeway that Trump now has?


Seriously??!! How do you think Trump got into office in the first place? Obama and Clinton's rotten ethics are what led us to where we are!

The director of the office of government ethics, who had no problem under the George W and Obama administrations (as dirty as those administrations were) resigns under Trump because of the lack of ethics.

Let that sink in.

Now you could blame that on some vast conspiracy to unseat Trump but it’s way more likely that Trump is just acting like Trump.

And Hillary has never been president, so bringing her up only serves to deflect from the current administrations lack of ethics.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: RAY1990


Why do people who are so caught up in politics really care what any political group are going to promise?


Oh, I don't know, it probably has something to do with non-affordable health care, illegal immigrants sucking up resources and jobs, inflation growing faster than wages, the need for capable law enforcement; do I really need to go on?

Ignoring it certainly isn't going to help.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: underwerks


The director of the office of government ethics, who had no problem under the George W and Obama administrations (as dirty as those administrations were) resigns under Trump because of the lack of ethics.


First of all...


Mr. Shaub’s five-year term as the director of the Office of Government Ethics is not set to expire until January, but with little chance of renewal and an appealing offer in hand from a nonpartisan advocacy group, he said the time was right to leave.


www.nytimes.com...

Secondly, Shaub's problem was with all of Trump's businesses. Trump had ownership in over 500 businesses and no one has ever had to deal with that kind of "conflict of interest" before. It wasn't logical to think that Trump would give up ownership in all of it just to serve a possible four year term in a job that doesn't pay squat compared to what he's used to. No one has ever had to track that before and reviewing Trump's annual reports on his outside business dealings would be more work than Shaub could handle.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: network dude


Ummm...let me see...even though I’m not a leftist...(libertarian)...I can list a few areas I’m in agreement with true liberals on...

1...husband the environment...clean up the effing plastic garbage patches in the oceans...(obviously a multinational issue)
Increase incentives for non polluting technologies...me likey electric vehicles...mandate every new home have solar or rooftop wind turbines or combinations of various...”free”...energy electricity production...
Fill the batteries of your vehicle at home from your rooftop/backyard grids...pay a useage fee to power up at charging facilities or while at work...

2...do something humane for those that are lost in homelessness or drug addiction...these are your neighbors...if we rail about the loss of family values or neighborhood/community...then recognize perhaps that some of that loss reason resides in each of us and our penchant to walk on by rather than recognize the humanity and very human problems that have real solutions...if only we took the time and offered an extended hand...

It’s a hard thing I know...but if we want to reclaim our communities and have real neighborhoods where we acknowledge and friend one another and share that friendship...then perhaps all that’s needed is a slight change of heart and an open inclusive mindset...

3...Race relations...I know how simplistic this will sound...I was prejudiced against watching the Marvel movie...Black Panther...I sat down with my girl and our daughter and watched it this past Friday...I was crying by the end of the movie...not in essence because of the theme...but how my occluded worldview was shattered...

I watched this movie and realized not for the first time...but again...how truly beautiful people are...that it wasn’t a requirement that I view interpersonal struggles and triumphs through the lense of pigmentation...that we all laugh and cry...love and build...tear down and raise up together...as a species...not as a subset or singular branch...
It’s our reach that defines us...what we strive for together...again...in community and neighborhood and by extension as a species...

Perhaps all we really need to heal racial division is a touch of humility and humbleness...we all struggle much the same and for much the same reasons...how sad that I had forgotten this...that it took a fictional film to unmask occlusion and recognize inclusion...



There are many more areas that I have open and unspoken agreement with those who consider themselves leftist or progressive or liberal...
In the end however...we all breathe...eat and sleep...put on our clothing and masks much the same...the best part...the inner part of all these interpersonal and seemingly different struggles is internally...we operate from the same core values...we love our children...we wish for a better world...we wish to step beyond the boundaries that ignorance and prejudice instill...


Overly simplistic...I know...better to shut out difference and fear the night...better to shut in like sentiment and chew it’s fat...

Can’t we taste how truly rancid that has become...?

YouSir


YouSir, have eloquently spoken the truth......Well said!



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: underwerks


The director of the office of government ethics, who had no problem under the George W and Obama administrations (as dirty as those administrations were) resigns under Trump because of the lack of ethics.


First of all...


Mr. Shaub’s five-year term as the director of the Office of Government Ethics is not set to expire until January, but with little chance of renewal and an appealing offer in hand from a nonpartisan advocacy group, he said the time was right to leave.


www.nytimes.com...

Secondly, Shaub's problem was with all of Trump's businesses. Trump had ownership in over 500 businesses and no one has ever had to deal with that kind of "conflict of interest" before. It wasn't logical to think that Trump would give up ownership in all of it just to serve a possible four year term in a job that doesn't pay squat compared to what he's used to. No one has ever had to track that before and reviewing Trump's annual reports on his outside business dealings would be more work than Shaub could handle.

So Trump is such a big businessman that ethics violations and conflicts of interest shouldn’t matter.

Good to know. I imagine it’s also great news for whatever billionaire man of the people is next in line to sit in his seat.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: underwerks


So Trump is such a big businessman that ethics violations and conflicts of interest shouldn’t matter.


I'm pretty sure that the "ethics violations" were the "conflicts of interest". I don't believe that there have been any other kind of ethics problems cited. No one said it shouldn't matter. I'm just pointing out that we've never had to deal with it to this extent before.


Good to know. I imagine it’s also great news for whatever billionaire man of the people is next in line to sit in his seat.


It's definitely something that should be taken into consideration in the future, just like we need to consider how Hillary Clinton has made all of her money. At least Trump didn't earn his whole fortune through politics!



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: network dude

I am an Economist first and am Politically Independent. I can tell you that it doesnt matter what the Left or the Rght want come 2020 because wheat they'll get is National Bankruptcy. The next President of "your" country will inherit a country so upside down on its debt that the economy and the markets will crash and burn. And of course, the next President will face Congressional gridlock, and a near ungoveranable populace divided aganinst itself and any Government.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: network dude

If this thread is genuine, then kudos.

Feels like 99% of ATS these days is just right wing paranoia pontificating about what "the Left" is/wants/wants to do to everyone, all based on garbage dumps of partisan propaganda from the likes of Breitbart, The Daily Caller, etc.

If more people here actually listened to each other they'd probably realize we're not all that different actually.


...
Anyway, I think most ATSers can agree the system today is completely f—ked. The game is rigged in favor of the rich and powerful, which should come as no surprise to anyone, since the more rich and powerful you are, the easier it is to rig the game. Without checks and measures, this becomes a vicious cycle.

That however is where the political diversion starts, because Liberals generally want to see such checks and balances in place (e.g. environmental regulations to name one example), while right-wingers consider anything of the sort an automatic affront to personal liberty and freedom.

Where the problem really takes off though is with all the hyperbole:

Just because someone thinks 1% of the population controlling half of its wealth is supremely messed up, doesn't mean they suddenly want hardcore Stalinism. Those pushing this extremist angle are generally the rich assholes trying to keep things as f—ked up as ever, so they scream "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" and point furiously at Liberal extremists, or immigrants, or other poor people, or whatever gets the Fox News crowd jacked up that week.

Meanwhile most intelligent people understand that any system that concentrates too much power in the hands of the few is prone to corruption and self-preservation at all costs (aka oligarchy). This applies to both big government and big business. The Liberals I know simply want a better balance between the two, that's all. They want government that actually represents the people instead of special interests and crony capitalism.

This is also why they're so "triggered" by Trump – because from the start they've seen an obvious megalomaniacal narcissist, someone who is clearly only interested in his personal welfare and ego. Someone who is also easily manipulated by other sociopaths in his same demographic. He represents the people to the extent that he craves their adoring adulation, but he's able to extort that with the same predictable tropes described above, blaming others, immigrants, etc - all while saying dumb sh!t like “drain the swamp” as he fills his cabinet with obvious cronies like Scott Pruitt, Steve Mnuchin, Ajit Pai, his own family, etc.


It's all very sad to see, but it's not going to get better until people on both sides can start having lucid and honest conversations with themselves and with each other, rather than getting triggered by the dumb dumb tribalism every time.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: mc_squared


If more people here actually listened to each other they'd probably realize we're not all that different actually.




That was my underlying motive here.




posted on May, 20 2018 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: Swills

Noooooo, what's funny is that leftists somehow think that government SHOULD be paying for healthcare, college and everything under the sun... They are mandated to protect our nation, they are NOT mandated to pay for your sex change, drug habit and toothcare...

Jaden



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: mc_squared

REALLY? Based on right wing sources huh??? So what about the threads titled, "Yes, we want to take your guns" or quotes from politicians that stating that nationalized health care is what we need. No the differences are not only substantial AND real...

The leftist ideals are the polar opposite of the form of government of the US.

Jaden



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: network dude

The title of your thread is the left's mantra.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: Masterjaden

Some of the happiest countries on this planet all have socialized healthcare. Healthcare in the US costs us more than any nation on Earth because private companies are in it for the profits. Many Americans lose everything because they become too sick or too disabled to continue working for a job that provides healthcare and can’t afford the high costs on their own leaving them bankrupt and moving in with family.

Providing everyone with a chance to attend a state university isn’t a bad thing. In fact, I’d like to see trade schools fall under that umbrella as well. Private schools will always exist. Do you complain about public schools? Should we get rid of that and make everyone pay for a private school?

But our govt certainly has the funds to pump money into defense contractors and start endless wars. How long have we been wasting money in the Middle East? Do you know how much we’ve spent so far? And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

I’d rather have my tax dollars go towards providing healthcare to everyone while also improving their education and trade skills instead of giving Wall Street bail outs and corporate welfare. Oh the horror!



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: Swills

I never understood conservatives hatred for healthcare. Living in Canada I can't fathom what it would be like without it.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 08:50 PM
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originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Swills

I never understood conservatives hatred for healthcare. Living in Canada I can't fathom what it would be like without it.


Gee, funny thing ...

Living in the US, I can't fathom life without health care either. The difference between you and I is that I pay for mine and you get taxed for it.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Are you asking America's Left wing or Democrats? Because the answers aren't the same.

I'm a far left progressive on most issues and the Democratic Party doesn't give a crap about most of my priorities. But as a mostly-Democratic voter, I have some common goals with them.

So ask about some specific topics and I can probably give more specific answers.

ETA:


But as a conservative, I have a really hard time understanding what the message is. What you stand for. What you want for the future of the US. What you want for the future of the US.

Every 4 years, the Democratic Party releases its party platform. You'll find your answers there.
THE 2016 DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM



I'd like to know who you see as a viable option for your version of leader.

The Democratic Party literally has a presidential candidate selection process every 4 years to determine this. Anything can happen in that time frame, which is why it's premature to decide this now.



I'd like to know what changes you want to see.

The Democratic Party platform includes that, too (as far as what Democrats want). What the actual Left wants usually goes much farther than what's in the platform, hence why I asked for specific issues.

But personally, I'm a progressive that lives in a moderate metropolis in a deeply conservative State. The changes I personally want to see here are way too vast to be answered vaguely.
edit on 20-5-2018 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

So you both pay for healthcare. The difference is, if you can no longer pay for yours you're done unless you qualify for disability or are a senior citizen. Even then, it's not great but at least its something but you'll still have big bills to pay.



posted on May, 20 2018 @ 09:40 PM
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originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: network dude

I'm not a Lefty, but you Righties will always assume I am since I am not on your team. In fact, maybe you'll see this site is dominated by conservatives and you probably won't get many actual Lefties to respond because they don't exists on ATS.

That said, I'm looking for a leader who will stop being a tool for the MIC, stop bombing multiple countries, stop invading and toppling countries, and end these insane "wars" in the Middle East that are costing us an INSANE amount of money by the day!

Funny we don't have money for people to go to college, infrastructure, or healthcare for all but we ALWAYS have money for war, bombs, and all things for "Defense". We spend more money on Defense than the entire world over, and over. This needs to stop.

I'm looking for a leader who will end the War on Drugs, federal mandatory minimums, and Private Prisons. Something is wrong when America pretends to be the bastion of freedom but has more of it's population imprisoned than any other country.

I'm looking for a leader who isn't a puppet for Wall Street, Corporations, and wealthy elitists Donors and will end the absurd idea that money equals Free Speech while killing off Super Pacs, aka Citizens United. I want a leader who will get money out of politics so our politicians actual cater to the voters, the working class, average Americans, instead of their wealthy Donors.



So you need a billionaire candidate that will spend his own money to run?

That is willing to do it for $1 a year and donates his $400k pay?

Someone that had a cushy life and decided to get into the DC sewars.

Risking everything to help the USA and you?

I'm sure Gates and that douche in cali that's running impeachment ads will throw their hat in the ring.

or maybe that cuban guy that owns the basketball team with the big mouth?

Good luck.




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