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Trans woman wants 50K because Muslim woman refuses to wax xir's testicles.

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posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: NorthernLites

I hope all the "bake that cake" people support this lawsuit .. me .. I will be consistent and say both of these are ridiculous.




posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: NorthernLites
A "woman" is suing to have "her" testicles waxed. What a time to be alive!



The owner of a local waxing spa is mounting a public campaign to clear the name of his business after he was served a human rights complaint for denying service to a transgender woman.

Jason Carruthers, the president of Mad Wax on Walker Road, said he was surprised at the legal move since he had explained to the complainant that the spa did not offer Brazilian wax services on male body parts. “I have no male wax staff,” Carruthers said Friday. “We are not able to provide that service.”

A local transgender woman claims she was denied services based on her gender identity and gender expression and is seeking $50,000 for “immense harm to my dignity.”

windsorstar.com...

Here is where individual rights collide.

Trans-woman (with male genitalia) wants a genital waxing. Staff is all female and not personally comfortable and/or willing to wax male genitals.

Can spa owner legally force employees into doing something they do not feel comfortable doing?

Where does the rights of one (in this case, a Trans person) end and the rights of others begin?





If they have to bake a cake they have to wax those nuts!!

Get to it!!


Truer words have never been spoken



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: kaylaluv




Neither is transgender person. What IS listed is gender dysphoria, i.e. the pain and suffering/depression/anxiety of the gender not matching the physical. Once trans people transition, they don’t usually have the dysphoria anymore.


American Foundation for Suicide Prevention (PDF)

While discrimination may play a role in the high suicide rate it can't be the only factor as discrimination does not account for the vast majority of ideations, attempts, or successful suicides.


From your link:


Although the limited NTDS data related to mental health precluded a full testing of this hypothesis, many speci c experiences of rejection, discrimination, victimization, and violence were found to be signi cantly related to having a disabling mental health condition (see Table 21). Examples included a weakening of family relationships after coming out as transgender, being a victim of violence by a family member, becoming homeless after coming out, being harassed at work, and being refused medical care because of anti-transgender bias. The signi cant relationship between such stressors and mental health disability, coupled with our earlier ndings of the relationship between mental health disability and lifetime suicide attempts (Tables 11-13), suggests that mental health factors and stressors interact to produce a marked vulnerability to suicidal behavior in transgender and gender non-conforming individuals.



A study conducted in Sweden from 1973-2003 said the following:
Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden


Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.


Clearly this says that sex reassignment alleviates gender dysphoria. What’s not alleviated is bad treatment by family/community. Nothing in this link says that people with gender dysphoria are delusional in any way.


Once again you keep repeating things that aren't so.


Your links just keep proving what I am saying. Keep it up!



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: NorthernLites

S&F for the lolz


In my opinion you wouldn’t be denying anyone their rights by denying them a testicular waxing. This reminds me of that story where a gay couple was trying to force a cake company to make them a wedding cake.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: NorthernLites

I hope all the "bake that cake" people support this lawsuit .. me .. I will be consistent and say both of these are ridiculous.


Nope. Not the same thing at all.

Straight couple walks in to a bakery and orders a white wedding cake. “Sure! I’ll have it for you next week.” Gay couple walks in to the same bakery and orders the same white wedding cake. “Sorry, won’t sell that to you.” Discrimination, plain and simple.

Man walks into salon and asks for testicle wax. “Sorry, we don’t have the personnel to do testicle waxing.” Trans person with male anatomy walks into the same salon and asks for testicle wax. “Sorry, we don’t have the personnel to do testicle waxing.” No discrimination.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: NorthernLites

S&F for the lolz


In my opinion you wouldn’t be denying anyone their rights by denying them a testicular waxing. This reminds me of that story where a gay couple was trying to force a cake company to make them a wedding cake.


Why do you people keep bringing this up? Apples and muscle cars. The cake incident was a human rights violation. This is a scenario where there was no way to accommodate this. The owner had no male staff to provide the service. As if that matters. I don't know how many men would touch another's junk. And everyone knows how difficult it is to get a strange woman to go there.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv



Clearly this says that sex reassignment alleviates gender dysphoria. What’s not alleviated is bad treatment by family/community. Nothing in this link says that people with gender dysphoria are delusional in any way.


I never made the argument that they are delusional.

That was another poster.

I'm arguing the point you made:



Neither is transgender person. What IS listed is gender dysphoria, i.e. the pain and suffering/depression/anxiety of the gender not matching the physical. Once trans people transition, they don’t usually have the dysphoria anymore.


This is not true and the studies I cited do not reflect this at all:




Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.


Alleviate does not mean eliminate, and they went further to state that while sex reassignment surgery may alleviate dysphoria, it does not treat the mental problems associated with transsexualism.

There are other factors to gender dysphoria that present themselves in pre and post-op transsexual persons. Discrimination is not the largest factor in this by a long shot.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

All of which is premised upon the idea that one's bits and parts defines anything more than their bits and parts. It's a faulty premise and therefore flawed conclusions.

And in the sense that you are speaking, it's all superficial window dressing. Put everyone in baggy unisex style clothes... everyone's hair pulled back in a pony tail... no one wears makeup... What would be the difference? And if we made no other distinctions between the sexes, with the necessary exception of different physical demands/needs based on anatomy, how would one's life change by living as the other gender?

It wouldn't.

There is no such thing as gender in the mind. There is only how one's mind defines (and judges) the person by the parts.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid
The owner had no male staff to provide the service. As if that matters. I don't know how many men would touch another's junk. And everyone knows how difficult it is to get a strange woman to go there.


It doesn't have to be male staff, just staff willing and trained to work on men's genitals. In most urban areas, there are lots available.

My cosmetologist is my business partner's husband, and specializes in male specific cosmetics. If he isn't available, his assistant is just as capable, and she is also well versed in male hair removal.

One thing I find a touch hockey about the story is the walking in part. Maybe it is just me, but I would never walk in and expect to receive a limited or specialist service. This is always something I book in advance. Heck, my guy made me sit down, to go over in detail exactly what I wanted done, how it would be done, how it will hurt the first couple times, and...most importantly, what parts I had to participate in. He doesn't even give the option for a walk in first time, even if the client has previous wax experience.
edit on 17-5-2018 by peck420 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: intrepid
The owner had no male staff to provide the service. As if that matters. I don't know how many men would touch another's junk. And everyone knows how difficult it is to get a strange woman to go there.


It doesn't have to be male staff, just staff willing and trained to work on men's genitals. In most urban areas, there are lots available.


I seriously doubt that.


My cosmetologist is my business partner's husband, and specializes in male specific cosmetics. If he isn't available, his assistant is just as capable, and she is also well versed in male hair removal.

One thing I find a touch hockey about the story is the walking in part. Maybe it is just me, but I would never walk in and expect to receive a limited or specialist service. This is always something I book in advance. Heck, my guy made me sit down, to go over in detail exactly what I wanted done, how it would be done, how it will hurt the first couple times, and...most importantly, what parts I had to participate in. He doesn't even give the option for a walk in first time, even if the client has previous wax experience.


That I can see but not on any large level.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 11:58 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

You are the one who made the statement about not coddling the mentally ill. I assume you were speaking about transgender people? If you were talking about some other group of people, then you have my apologies for misunderstanding.

I did state that once the transition is complete, the person doesn’t Usually have dysphoria anymore. It’s on a spectrum. Some have minor dysphoria that’s pretty easy to alleviate; others have major dysphoria that is never really alleviated. Those whose transition was really successful, i.e., they “pass” easily as the gender they identify with, are usually not considered to suffer the symptoms of dysphoria anymore.

While there are other factors that present themselves pre and post-op, discrimination and treatment by family/community IS a very large factor. There was a large study done recently, where the vast majority of trans people who participated said the reason for their suicidal feelings was treatment by others. They also overwhelmingly said their transition greatly helped their condition of gender dysphoria.

Your Swedish link doesn’t address the reasons for the increased suicide. It doesn’t claim the reason is sex reassignment surgery. It doesn’t claim the reason is continued dysphoria. It doesn’t claim the reason is bad treatment by others. So you can’t claim any reason based on that study.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:09 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv
Give me the science that says it is not. Also the suicide rate post mutilation of current biological body is very high explain that.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: kaylaluv
explain that.

Not treating people like human beings tends to do that.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv




You are the one who made the statement about not coddling the mentally ill.


Indeed I did, and we shouldn't. It isn't helpful to them or to society to deny there is a problem, and then to go so far as to enable it in this fashion.




I assume you were speaking about transgender people?


I was speaking of transgendered persons. Which, by definition, suffer from mental illness.





I did state that once the transition is complete, the person doesn’t Usually have dysphoria anymore.


Your emphasis left intact for clarity:

Indeed you did, and the evidence supports your assertion.




It doesn’t claim the reason is bad treatment by others. So you can’t claim any reason based on that study.


I didn't.

What I did say is that discrimination plays a role, but it isn't the ONLY thing going on, and it isn't even the most prevalent.

The study you cite doesn't account for prior, untreated mental illness, most of these studies don't.

It's like veteran suicides. People always assume it's because of war, but there are many reasons for suicide among veterans that don't have anything to do with war, and they account for the lions share of ideations, attempts, and successful instances of suicide. War-related veteran suicides are not the largest factor.

We live in a very inclusive society. Despite that, some people feel that American society is inherently discriminatory. This is not the case. I have never refused service or refused to make reasonable accommodations for anyone, including transgendered persons. Neither have most people.

But we have to stop pretending like it is healthy and normal when the transgendered community is literally killing itself off with suicides, drug abuse, alcoholism, and other self-destructive behavior.
edit on 17 5 18 by projectvxn because: Grammar check



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: SeaWorthy

Not surprising you had to look the term up. You apparently don't know much about trans people at all.


I guess I know all I want to know. Well yeah, I'm old but I have read up on the science side of homosexuality, transgender and so on.
But I of course affected am by both Movie and TV portrayal and the news.

It is hard to consider People normal who will meet up with strangers in toilets for sex or self-described as kneeling in bushes in parks for strangers unseen to enjoy at will by the dozens per night.

The reputation came from themselves. The behavior we used to just call,

per·vert
verb
pərˈvərt/Submit
1.
alter (something) from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended.
noun
ˈpərvərt/Submit
1.
a person whose sexual behavior is regarded as abnormal and unacceptable.
synonyms: deviant, degenerate;

Dictionary



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: NorthernLites

If it did, then I could claim I was actually a brown bear and demand the fish hatchery give me salmon.


Oh my god that's a great idea....

See I was always a fairly hairy dude....and well I just never felt right in my own body....but after a few surgerys...just the basic canine and claw impants for now...I'm finally ready to begin accepting myself for the #ing grizzly bear I am....as an endagered species of course wherever I live shall be considered protected habitat for my entire range of about 500 miles around my den...and of course lets not forget all that salmon.....
edit on 17/5/2018 by dug88 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: peck420



One thing I find a touch hockey about the story is the walking in part. Maybe it is just me, but I would never walk in and expect to receive a limited or specialist service.

From the OP article


The complainant, who has asked to remain anonymous, said she called the spa March 17, 2018, to inquire about services for a transgender woman.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

But we DO make distinctions between the sexes. Every day, all the time.

Some parents are deciding to raise their children without regards to gender, including names, pronouns, clothes, toys, etc. Those parents are usually criticized by conservative groups for doing so. I assume by your statements that you don’t agree with these conservative groups and are very much okay with raising a child in this way? The only problem I see with this, is that kids tend to know their gender identity pretty early on, and find ways to express it, no matter how they are raised.

We can agree that one’s conscious awareness of self comes from the brain, yes? Identity is self awareness. Identity comes from the brain. Gender is part of identity. Gender is in the brain.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: kaylaluv
Give me the science that says it is not. Also the suicide rate post mutilation of current biological body is very high explain that.


Lol. Look it up yourself.

Also, read this:

transequality.org...



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 12:32 PM
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Wow, the SJW's must be losing their # over this. Do they support the trans person who wants a wax, or the Muslim woman whose religious beliefs prevent her from doing the wax? This should be fun to watch.



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