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‘Real’ Americans are a myth. Don’t you dare buy it.

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posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:15 PM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: Krazysh0t

A quick challenge for this literary artist (and any progressives in this thread). Point out to me the word "Democracy" in the Constitution.

I'll be waiting... thanks.






posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: JimNasium

A) Actually 911 is traditionally a left wing conspiracy. As the right backed Bush the whole way.

That is why I differentiated 911 with all the crazy right wing conspiracies.. because 911 is a crazy left wing conspiracy. Always has been.


B) Is 911 the easiest way to repeal those rights??

Is 911 the easiest way to create the fervor for war??




That is the question..


People don’t do things the hard way for fun. People take the past of least resistance.

There is no need to perpetrate a convoluted tax scam when you are the one who prints the money in the first place....

You wouldn’t orcastrate 911.. you would just turn on the printers on a holiday weekend...



The same goes with the war in Iraq/Afghanistan.


ANY big terrorist attack would have had the same effect on the American population.

So is 911 the easiest, cheapest or least risky big terrorist attack we can think of???


HELL NO..


Some one could have poisoned to out flow or a water treatment plant and killed off half a small city and had ten times the kill count.


Someone could have blown up a handful of daycare centers across the country.. you wouldn’t get the body count maybe, but 400 dead kids in 5 states would ABSOLUTELY have created the desire for war and the patriot act.



My point is there are a gagillion easier, less risky and cheaper ways to start a war or repeal people’s rights.

911 would literally be the hardest most convoluted and most likely to fail way to start a war..


The Lusitania was an historically agreed upon false flag.

They loaded a civilian liner with weapons (which made it a legit target for Germany) then sent it into Uboat patrolled waters specifically so they could scream” atrocity” later and the US could have a reason to enter the war.

One ship of civilians THEY SET UP, is all it took..


C) we have spent way more money on the war than ALL the money spent on opiates in that time period..


They could have just bought the poppy fields for 1/1,000,000th of the cost.




Feel me? Or at least do you understand my point???


If My trailer park @$$ can think up easier, cheaper and less risky ways to achieve the same goals as those speculated to be the motivation for 911. Then so could the room full of Ivy League intellectuals and generals who would have been responsible for 911.


It is literally the most expensive, most risky and hardest to pull off false flag in history.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Masterjaden

Of course they didn't exist, but that doesn't mean you are correct. Our founding fathers made our country with the intention that its political ideals can evolve with the changing populace's ideas. So you are 100% wrong. You may not like Socialism or Communism, but a Socialist or a Communist is every bit as American as you are.


Uh no. The Founding Fathers understood the perils of uninformed mob rule, that's why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democratic Republic. Socialism and Communism are the antithesis of freedom. You place too much power in the hands of government.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: 35Foxtrot

I didn't ask you to prove that Socialism has been practiced in this country for the last 100+ years. I already know and affirm that is true. I am asking you to prove that it is incompatible with our country's values.


I'm not sure I believe that Socialism has been practiced in this country for the last 100+ years. Except for the rise of trade unions, it's become government policy mostly since the time of FDR. Since then, Socialism has gradually been taking over the role of the churches and to some extent families in our societies. Before that, churches ran orphanages, many schools and hospitals, charities, etc. People lived in extended families of several generations and took care of their own. That's partly why religion and family have deteriorated with the rise of socialism.

While socialism was increasing, the government remained staunchly anti communist. In other words, while the socialism replaced the role of the church, it did not replace the prevailing political philosophies in the government arena. Hence the conflict today while it is attempting to do that.
edit on 15-5-2018 by toms54 because: typo



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Masterjaden
You may not like Socialism or Communism, but a Socialist or a Communist is every bit as American as you are.


You're off the deep end KrazySh0t. That is absolutely the most absurd statement I've ever read on ATS. I'll add too, it's just plain ignorant if you believe it!

What is "not knowing or uninformed" about this statement since you are deeming to call it ignorant?


Just imagine if we were all living in a communist country now, we wouldn't even be allowed to have this conversation. It would be censored or you'd be arrested.

Go to China.

Communism is an economic principle. What occurs in China and the occurred in the USSR is a bastardization of Communism. Just because countries misused the concept doesn't mean it isn't compatible with our values.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Krazysh0t

We do have the right to label things "traitorous" or "unamerican" but the real question is whether or not it is helpful to the current #show we've found ourselves in.

I say again, many in this country apparently don't realize just how deep that precipice we're standing next to is

I don't know about you, but compromising sounds a hell of a lot more reasonable than the inevitable violence and destruction that failing to resolve our differences historically comes with. Just look at dozens of other nations around the world for an example

I agree. Compromise is a value our country needs to return to.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So what makes them more American than someone on the left espousing their ideals?

Nothing. We are all equally American. That is the point of the thread.



No , not when one Group Espouses Chaos from Order . In this case , a Direct Seditious Attack on a Democratic Republic Ruled by Laws ....

Even criminals are still American. You are still wrong.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: toms54

Socialism = everytime taxes are taken from some or all to be used for the benefit for some or all..

The police, fire, roads, Medicare, Medicare, food stamps , social security, the military, exc, exc, exc are all socialist institutions.


The right wing propagandists attempt to redefine what socialism means , like a dictionary doesn’t exist..


And they do it with everything.. that way when you hear someone say a word that in reality has a neutral meaning. People will have a negative reaction that causes them to reject point the person might be making..


ATLEAST Half of EVERY civil action in history has been socialist.

100% capitalism has never even been attempted..


Just imagaine private police forces and armies..

The fire department and ambulance doesn’t show up if your behind on your bill.


Every road has a toll.


No welfare,social security or food stamps..



And they do it with everything...


Look up the definition for globalist sometime. I guarantee it will have nothing to do with a satanic illuminati trying to kill off half the population. Lol..



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Lab4Us
Straw man much?

And how is that a strawman? Those are real articles and real quotes of Trump and Fox News calling people traitors and unamerican.


Except they had nothing to do with the post you were replying to...

Lol do you not remember your own words?

In fact, look at this thread. The only ones threatening anyone are the socialists, the liberals.

So I posted links to Trump and Fox News doing exactly that. That is unless you are suggesting that Trump and Fox News are socialists and liberals?



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Real Americans don't read WaPo and certainly don't care what Eugene Robinson (or you) think.

In direct comment to the idea that "Our country was founded to bring together and give equal weight to any political idea. Not bully people into agreeing with their politics. " the fact that slavery was legal in America upon it's founding proves that's ridiculous. There was never any intent to give equal weight to any political idea, regardless of how it differed from the norm. There was absolutely an intent to secure a nation where the prevailing majority opinion was law, so long as it didn't utterly crap all over the Constitution from a federal level... though the 10th Amendment could be argued to open the door for extremely narrow interpretations of what was and wasn't "acceptable" on the state level.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Masterjaden

Of course they didn't exist, but that doesn't mean you are correct. Our founding fathers made our country with the intention that its political ideals can evolve with the changing populace's ideas. So you are 100% wrong. You may not like Socialism or Communism, but a Socialist or a Communist is every bit as American as you are.


Uh no. The Founding Fathers understood the perils of uninformed mob rule, that's why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democratic Republic. Socialism and Communism are the antithesis of freedom. You place too much power in the hands of government.


That's your opinion and you are entitled to hold it. I disagree and am entitled to my opinion that Socialism aligns with the Constitution. That is what being American is. The freedom to hold and express any political opinion you want.
edit on 15-5-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: JimNasium

A) Actually 911 is traditionally a left wing conspiracy. As the right backed Bush the whole way.

That is why I differentiated 911 with all the crazy right wing conspiracies.. because 911 is a crazy left wing conspiracy. Always has been.


911 was a neocon conspiracy to draw us into Middle East wars. Either Bush was fooled by it or more likely, was in on it.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Real Americans don't read WaPo and certainly don't care what Eugene Robinson (or you) think.

Ok. Well then we have nothing to discuss then.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Masterjaden

Of course they didn't exist, but that doesn't mean you are correct. Our founding fathers made our country with the intention that its political ideals can evolve with the changing populace's ideas. So you are 100% wrong. You may not like Socialism or Communism, but a Socialist or a Communist is every bit as American as you are.


Uh no. The Founding Fathers understood the perils of uninformed mob rule, that's why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democratic Republic. Socialism and Communism are the antithesis of freedom. You place too much power in the hands of government.



Yeah the commies ignore those facts.

The only branch that is Democratic is the House, and they are historically with the lowest approval rating among voters. Their power resides in the committees, where all power is removed from the minorities in Congress. So really only the majority has a voice in important matters in the House.

The House majority voice gets tamed by the Senate and the final ball and chain against mob rule is the veto power of the President.

Commies are pretty much barred from taking over unless they can have a majority in the House along with two thirds majority in the Senate. It will be a cold day in hell before any faction gets that much majority. A closely divided nation is a very good thing from that point of view.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: toms54

Socialism = everytime taxes are taken from some or all to be used for the benefit for some or all..

The police, fire, roads, Medicare, Medicare, food stamps , social security, the military, exc, exc, exc are all socialist institutions.


Yes. This is your definition. It is not accurate. The police, fire, roads, the military; do you think Karl Marx invented these things? They existed during monarchies, during the Roman Empire. And so did the ancient equivalents of the other things.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: toms54

Socialism predates Karl Marx. He just codified the concepts in his book.
Ancient Origins of a Modern Debate: Socialism in Plato and Aristotle



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: toms54

Socialism predates Karl Marx. He just codified the concepts in his book.
Ancient Origins of a Modern Debate: Socialism in Plato and Aristotle


Jesuit Communes came before Marx, though Marx was in lock step with the Jesuits in that regard later on. Maybe even employed by Jesuits or was one himself from the similarities.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 01:10 PM
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The part about Communism I don't like much is that it doesn't ever work...

The part about Capitalism I don't like much is that I need more money...



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Masterjaden

Of course they didn't exist, but that doesn't mean you are correct. Our founding fathers made our country with the intention that its political ideals can evolve with the changing populace's ideas. So you are 100% wrong. You may not like Socialism or Communism, but a Socialist or a Communist is every bit as American as you are.


Uh no. The Founding Fathers understood the perils of uninformed mob rule, that's why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democratic Republic. Socialism and Communism are the antithesis of freedom. You place too much power in the hands of government.


That's your opinion and you are entitled to hold it. I disagree and am entitled to my opinion that Socialism aligns with the Constitution. That is what being American is. The freedom to hold and express any political opinion you want.


You need to read the federalist papers the founding fathers went to great lengths to make sure the government couldn't be socialist. For example ever wonder why public schools are paid for by local taxes? It's because the constitution doesn't allow the federal government to pay for it. Many things have to be payed locally including roads the federal government cannot build a road that cannot be used to transport mail from one post office to another.

The founding fathers set many restrictions making sure the federal government could not infringe on the individual or local communities.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: toms54

Karl Marx didn’t invent the concept of pooling resources for the benefit of all lol...

And that isn’t my definition.. that is the definition.


Any industry/sector the state totally controls and regulates is a socialist industry/sector..


The state regulates and controls the military..

The state controls and regulates the police, fire , exc, exc..


That makes those socialism..


No one has had a 100% socialist system since tribal days..


Your taking the Sean Hannity cliff notes definition..

They put forth a ridiculously simplistic vein of reality where socialism= everything I have to pay for that I don’t want to..


When socialism = everytime the state controls a sector or industry.


The fact is ALL societies are a mix and the only argument is if we want X industry to be a private buisness or public buisness..



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