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‘Real’ Americans are a myth. Don’t you dare buy it.

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posted on May, 16 2018 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

That is 100% irrelevant to anything I said in this thread.
I thought it was about deciding what is American and what is not. But I got more stars than usual for my post, so mb it's not so irrelevant after all.



On ATS it's the stars and flags that make it relevant?

That is such bullsh!t




posted on May, 16 2018 @ 07:56 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JBurns
That is what I gather as well AM



I find it so odd that so many people can so misunderstand what the people who wrote the Constituion actually were trying to accomplish.





One of the main differences between the Founding Fathers and us today: They fought a Revolution over high taxes which went into the till of a tyrannical King. We have even higher taxes which go into the till of whatever the federal government arbitrarily decides. King versus government.
All the nonsense about being democratic... it's still draconian because more government equals more control. More control equals less freedom. Being "democratic" does not mean having freedom. The Founding Fathers were all about Liberty were they not? What kind of liberty is it when the federal government is dictating to us that we must have health insurance or be taxed with penalties?
Someone said that socialism is un-American and I have to agree. To confiscate the proceeds of a man's labor arbitrarily to help another or to feed a giant bureaucratic overbloated machine is not what the Founding Fathers were about.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

That is 100% irrelevant to anything I said in this thread.
I thought it was about deciding what is American and what is not. But I got more stars than usual for my post, so mb it's not so irrelevant after all.



On ATS it's the stars and flags that make it relevant?

That is such bullsh!t

In this case I was looking at whether people might think my post was relevant to the topic since I was being accused of being off topic. Being a natural born citizen or a naturalized citizen is part of being American is it not? I realize of course, the OP was concerned mainly with left and right factions of American society and not citizenship. Who is going to decide what is authentic American-ness? The OP seems to identify with class distinction as well, as there was a focus on wealthy elites and how much money they have. So am I not allowed to count my stars but you get to count other people's money....



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus


The Founding Fathers implemented their own taxes during and immediately after the Revolution, they were no different.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
This is the central argument from the author:

The whole point of democracy is that every citizen’s voice is supposed to have equal weight — even voices in favor of fair and compassionate immigration policy, universal health care, fighting racism, promoting gender equality, enshrining LGBT rights and other progressive causes.


Universal Healthcare. Healthcare is not a right, it's a service provided by others. It's expensive and demanding it for everyone requires those with more to pay more to cover those who can't afford it. The American revolution was started over taxes so yes, more taxes = unamerican.



You know i agree for the most part with everything else you said...but dude healthcare is the #....I look at the bills Americans pay for a #ing ice pack at the hospital and I can't help but laugh. It is not as expensive as you seem to think and in my country where we have universal healthcare doctors are still one of the highest paid professions and nobody complains about having to pay for that # because being able to walk into a hospital or doctors office without having to worry about it destroying your life is #ing awesome. It makes your quality of life so much better...and these ridiculous expsenses you speak of....I'm in I suppose the second tax bracket and I pay less than $100 a month for my medical. The percentage of your wage that is taken doesn't increase as you make more money. All this bull# you guys believe about that is exactly that...bull#.

I'm not saying the system here is perfect by any means. There's definitely corruption and people that scam the system but it sure works out a hell of a lot better for the majority of people than the insanity I hear about from the medical system in america...like what the # kind of country has ambulances that will leave someone to die of they can't pay the fee or have a different insurance provider? Just thinking about such a thing makes my brain hurt....healthcare really should be one of those universal things in a first world country...that's kinda one of those things that separate them from third world #holes...
edit on 16/5/2018 by dug88 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: dug88


Social programs don't lead to laziness...lazy useless people do.


Social programs are the reason the U.S. is full of lazy and useless people. The U.S. is a socialist country, and has been for quite some time. This is why it was easy to predict that it would fall under communist rule. People, by their very nature, are lazy as they get older. S.S. was built to keep people chasing that comfort, it got out of control quick, and now the younger generation is going to have to foot the bill or fall into full blown socialism. I am very worried they will opt for option 2.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 10:03 PM
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originally posted by: crtrvt
The problem is a certain subset believe "white" and "republican" are the beginning and end of what it means to be a real American.


Yes, the leftist sure do. They THINK it is an exclusive club for rich whites when it is a chance to speak freely and be allowed to accumulate wealth unlike many other country's. Stay neutral people!



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 10:12 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Yet they needed to form a framework to protect individual rights and freedoms.


And that framework protects differing beliefs, no matter what anyone thinks of them.


Communism/socialism eliminates the individuals rights. Is that a good plan?

As long as those beliefs that are different than mine do not go against the Constitution, then they are free to act accordingly. When their idea is to stomp out the Constitution without due process, you can count me out. The leftist and those Bushes (pretended to be right) have brought on us a tyranny of a Nanny state, we have to say NO WAY. Because socialism violates the premise of individual freedoms, period. Check Venezuela for reasons to say NO!



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 10:16 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
And real Americans can call out Commies for being un American, protected also.


And Communists can tell Capitalists they're un-American. Round and round.


No, they can't. You are way off this time. Capitalists is just the title of the business frame we use. Freedom of the individual is American and commies don't care for the rest of us having much of it.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 10:40 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Sublimecraft


I think the premise of the thread, and I may be wrong, is that differing views on the same topic doesn't make someone un-American whether it is a prevailing fact they are disagreeing with or not.


If that was the premise, maybe I can see that.
As of now, I think the premise is to for the OP to bitch about being called out for following/worshiping communist gov and then does not liking being told the truth that it doesn't work.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 06:47 AM
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originally posted by: WhyDidIJoin
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your logic: me wanting to destroy America and make us into a 3rd world country is more American than you wanting to keep us on top!

Strawman.


Give it up, America is even greater than it ever has, get over it. We're about the fly on Mars at the end of Trumps first term. Sorry that hurts you.

You first. Stop writing strawmans about people's beliefs you don't care to understand. Also, you believe that we'll get to Mars before 2020? And even if we do, you honestly think it'll have anything to do with Trump willing it so? Are you high? What's next is Trump going to cure cancer and walk on water too?
edit on 17-5-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:01 AM
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originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Fair and compassionate immigration policy. What exactly is fair and compassionate? Is he implying we don't have that already? Birthright citizenship, chain migration (family reunification), DACA - those overly-generous policies already exist. Other countries are not so generous as the US but no, we have to do more - always more.

I would say no. I have a buddy trying to immigrate here legally right now and he is telling me how stressed he is getting with how hard Trump has made things. He has a phd and is afraid he won't be able to get a green card because they changed immigration policy so that each member of his family has to be interviewed and judged independently on if they should be in the country or not. This includes his daughter who came over here when she was 3 and has no idea what the answers to most of the questions they asked are because she was too young to remember them now. This is without even speaking about how he treats illegals like the scum of the earth.


The cost of illegal immigration is staggering, on the order of $50 billion annually. Legal immigration may be even more expensive due to social programs which they use at twice the rate of US citizens of any ethnicity.

I really don't see how legal immigrants using social programs is a problem if they are American citizens and pay taxes. That sounds like you are just fishing to be offended there.


Universal Healthcare. Healthcare is not a right, it's a service provided by others. It's expensive and demanding it for everyone requires those with more to pay more to cover those who can't afford it. The American revolution was started over taxes so yes, more taxes = unamerican.

Thanks to beliefs like this we have one of the most expensive health care systems in the world and worsening healthcare by the day.


"Fighting racism" - Is racism truly a problem? We live in a country where slavery existed and the worst the media can conjure up is 2 Black men arrested for trespassing in a Starbucks. The best way to end it is as Morgan Freeman said: "stop talking about it".

LOL! It's funny you can even ask this question. Yes racism is a problem. Also, Morgan Freeman is an idiot. Not talking about something doesn't magically make it go away.


Promoting gender equality - Another non-issue... We have equality under the law, equal opportunity and equal pay for equal work. Government has addressed these.

Yet gender equality doesn't exist right now.


Enshrining LGBT rights. What rights is it that they lack? I asked a gay friend and she couldn't answer. Actually their rights are covered by the Constitution, just like hetero-normative people.

Yet there are still states trying to fight against things like legalized gay marriage. Don't pretend like this issue is solved just because you talked to one gay person about it.


What he promotes is an assortment of causes that affect a very narrow spectrum of people, the vast majority of whom aren't even Americans. Wouldn't being a "real American" possibly have something to do with caring about issues that affect all Americans? Like war, debt, taxes, crappy schools, the economy, jobs ?

To be honest, this entire exercise we are doing here is irrelevant because those are his beliefs and his point was that having them doesn't make him unamerican. You clearly missed the forest for the trees on that one.


There is no patriarchal, right-wing society trying to impose their views, it is the Left who is out to impose their beliefs by making criticism of it "hate speech". In a country based on freedom of speech that's one more unamerican concept.

Thanks for the partisan ad hominem. I don't care if you want to believe his beliefs or not.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:04 AM
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originally posted by: Aegeus
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I believe the same as Trump and about 90% of other Americans. An American is someone who came here legally. It's really that simple.

Ok... But where are you getting that statistic from? Your ass? Not even half the country voted in the last election and furthermore he lost the popular vote. Continuing that, he can't even reach 50% approval ratings as the President. Clearly not even CLOSE to 90% of the population believes the same as Trump unless you are lying to yourself.


Illegals are not American, no matter how much the left tries to spin it as so.

Literally no one in this thread has said that. It's amazing how you guys keep bringing up this strawman to tear down.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:05 AM
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originally posted by: Ansuzrune
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Communism and socialism are not American at all. If it is even considered by a group in this country or even suggested on capital hill it is time to arm ourselves up. I will never ever ever support anything else but a Constitutional Republic. If you think Communism is an evolution of thought and governance you should leave this blessed land. For if its roots even start to seriously take I would suggest leaving as your blood may not be worth the fight. I will spill mine to protect this country and will spill the likes of yours to keep it that way.

Socialism has existed in this country in some form for well over 100 years now. If you believe this then you need to start storming the Capital building. What do you think welfare and social programs are after all?

Though it's clear you are the type of person the article was talking about. Someone who instead of tolerating viewpoints he doesn't agree with, wants to kick them out of the country or shoot them with guns. This country was founded on compromise, perhaps you should go look up the definition of that word?
edit on 17-5-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

He should try emigrating to Canada or the UK ..
He should just do it, like everyone else. I know people who have emigrated. When you migrate you don't get a trophy you just # do it.
edit on 17-5-2018 by BotheLumberJack because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2018 by BotheLumberJack because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:08 AM
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a reply to: BotheLumberJack

He is doing it, or trying. Trump's changes have seriously upped his time table, but because of them he now has to see a lawyer with his family taking whole days off of work so they can rehearse the interview process. Not to mention show them how to fill out the mountain of paperwork that is required.

Even before Trump's changes, things were very cost prohibitive and tedious. For instance, he would have to make trips to the US embassy in China to do parts of the process for some reason.



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Is he moving from China to the US?



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:41 AM
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a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Well he moved from China 12 years ago and has been here on a work visa with his company jacking him around by promising him a green card and not delivering. Now he has to do it on his own time thanks to Trump. I've learned through him that our immigration policies have ALWAYS been #ty. Trump has made them worse though. I also now understand much better why many people choose to forgo that idiocy and just come here illegally.
edit on 17-5-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:48 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ok, so he's blaming Trump for not becoming a US Citizen. Respectfully, if Immigration has always been #ty, so why then is it Trumps fault? How has Trump made it worse?



posted on May, 17 2018 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Because Trump has made it harder on him. Up until Trump was in office he wasn't under threat of deportation for failing to get the green card. Now he can't get his work visa renewed AND his family could be split up if they don't each individually pass the immigration standards. Like he isn't worried about getting a green card. His English is decent and he is well educated, so he reasons that he should be fine. He is more worried about his wife or daughter failing. His wife doesn't remember everything from when they moved here and his daughter was 3 yet is still required to know these things. Apparently Trump changed it so that a family doesn't interview altogether; they interview individually.
edit on 17-5-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




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