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‘Real’ Americans are a myth. Don’t you dare buy it.

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posted on May, 15 2018 @ 06:16 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Masterjaden

Of course they didn't exist, but that doesn't mean you are correct. Our founding fathers made our country with the intention that its political ideals can evolve with the changing populace's ideas. So you are 100% wrong. You may not like Socialism or Communism, but a Socialist or a Communist is every bit as American as you are.


Uh no. The Founding Fathers understood the perils of uninformed mob rule, that's why we are a Constitutional Republic and not a Democratic Republic. Socialism and Communism are the antithesis of freedom. You place too much power in the hands of government.


That's your opinion and you are entitled to hold it. I disagree and am entitled to my opinion that Socialism aligns with the Constitution. That is what being American is. The freedom to hold and express any political opinion you want.


You need to read the federalist papers the founding fathers went to great lengths to make sure the government couldn't be socialist. For example ever wonder why public schools are paid for by local taxes? It's because the constitution doesn't allow the federal government to pay for it. Many things have to be payed locally including roads the federal government cannot build a road that cannot be used to transport mail from one post office to another.

The founding fathers set many restrictions making sure the federal government could not infringe on the individual or local communities.

You are the second person to cite the federalist papers and tell me I need to read them. So I'll do what I did to the last person who lazily tried to do this. Quote me sections of the papers that outline why Socialism isn't compatible with our Constitution.


I'm not going to try to teach you about a topic you obviously haven't even bothered to look in to. Start with federalist paper number 10 that will put you on the right track. Your trying to argue a point against people that actually took the time to read the federalist papers and understand how the constitution was created.

Here's one of my favorite quotes Socialism requires an authority capable of bending the knees of the people to the will of the state. The founding fathers knew this as well and took great steps to limit the federal government and protect individual rights.




posted on May, 15 2018 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns & AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That is what I gather as well AM



differing views on the same topic doesn't make someone un-American whether it is a prevailing fact they are disagreeing with or not.


Lets look at a single example - the Berkley Professor who smashed a bike-lock over the head of a Trump supporter - because he was a Trump supporter (aka: an opinion)

The Professor is NOT a 'true American' - he's a POS pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag - we have video proof of his weak assed pussyness. He's unAmerican because he chose to use violence to prove his 'tolerance & love'



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: dug88
Well I'm not an American either so I may be wrong...but pretty sure their constitution has something about overthrowing the government should it become tyranical...


It doesn't but many of the Founders writings made it clear that they felt rebellion and the overthrow of tyrants was the most American thing one could undertake.


Ah fair enough this makes sense...I wasn't implying it had come to that point or anything...I just knew there was something about that somewhere.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: Masterjaden
Trying to subvert individual liberty and freedom is as anti-American as can be.


Your subversion is another person's liberty. The Founding Fathers prove your point wrong as many hated each other due to their wildly different political views.





edit on 15-5-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 07:29 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns
That is what I gather as well AM



I find it so odd that so many people can so misunderstand what the people who wrote the Constituion actually were trying to accomplish.




edit on 15-5-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: 👁️ 💓 🧀 🍕



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 07:32 PM
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originally posted by: dug88
Ah fair enough this makes sense...I wasn't implying it had come to that point or anything...I just knew there was something about that somewhere.


No worries. Some of them were more vociferous about who should be overthrown and when, with many of them not liking the first few choices for President and advocating their removal from office. Times don't change.




edit on 15-5-2018 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

So basically, he's mad because he doesn't get to continue to call us unelightened, racist, bigoted, homophobes from his spot on the coast. And when the people he and those like him have been smearing at manage to outvote he and his kind in elections, they fall back and whine that they're American too?

Guess what?

No one has ever said they're not American, but we have said that some of their ideas are anti-American in that they go against the basic ideals and principles of the COTUS and the Founders. Being American doesn't always make your opinions or policy positions right.

Sorry, but people who cross the borders in defiance of immigration law are illegally here and need to go home.

Universal health care is care that I pay for for everyone else and not care that I get a voice in for myself. It's the same care that doomed Alfie to die in defiance of his parents' wishes and in service to the state.

And most progressive cause are generally in service to superficial diversity, not true diversity of thought, while promoting government control in pursuit of equity not equality. Equity simply means equality of outcome as enforced by law.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: dug88
Ah fair enough this makes sense...I wasn't implying it had come to that point or anything...I just knew there was something about that somewhere.


No worries. Some of them were more vociferous about who should be overthrown and when, with many of them not liking the first few choices for President and advocating their removal from office. Times don't change.





Meh it is what it is...politicians are all #ed in someway...and it's not like there was much of a choice....it's the insane fervor people seem to have about him...both ways. He's just a businessman and now a politician like any other. He's not really the person that matters anyway. It's all the people that have been appointed to various federal departments that are kinda scary and they're the people that run america anyway.

The arguing and bickering every body seems to be doing is pointless and over the wrong things.

I dunno...the world's going to be interesting over the next few years...hopefully for the best.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 10:06 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Ah, I see where I must've misrepresented My stance on 9/11. Do I think some folks from the gov't. were behind it? Yep. But I typed just about what I learned about it before getting sick to My stomach. I'm thinking this interweb has grown and grown so somewhere "out there" there is probably a Conspiracy Theory website. I 'think' You can even get by with just the initials "C.T." but I haven't any familiarity with any such sites.

Have You met 'Plausible Deniability'?

en.wikipedia.org...

How about George W.'s bro, Homer?

www.commondreams.org...


Isn't 'half a Truth' a "full lie"?

P.S. And it wouldn't take the whole government to pull off a caper like this. 'Key people' in key positions and You can make folks believe anything. Also when You are in those 'key positions' You can control the narrative.

For example, I walked through a group of Ladies playing Bridge and being aged, they have a tendency to sometimes overdo the perfume, there had to have been 20+ Ladies, most wearing a scent of some sort (When working Narcotics, I was in close proximity to numerous methamphetamine labs and this was the 'Beavis&Butthead' and Nazi Method, ever since I've been real keen on any odor especially dealing w/chemicals) Anyways at least 1 of the Ladies farted. Which one? How could I ever prove it? I'd be so embarrassed to even mention it, thank Goodness of this anonymous intraweb chat-forum message board where I could get that off My chest...

Geez, now I got 'the last word' so go ahead and type something and then of course, the rules of the intraweb would declare You, 'The Victor' and to You 'the spoils' but the spoils won't include either the Tapioca or Rice Puddings as the dogs and I took care of that bit so it wouldn't spoil....



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 10:14 PM
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There is not a person in the U.S. that has lived in a free republic envisioned by the founders. Socialism helped straighten things out, but the further it goes, the harder it will be to stop. If anyone wants this to be a free republic, they will have to ask that all retirees give up their social security, end welfare, end Medicaid, and end all other forms of socialism. Until communities are willing to put each other on their backs, the socialism trend will only increase.

City
County
State
Feds

Fix the tax system, implement compassionate measures at a local level, and be accountable with the funds up top and only for defensive measures.



posted on May, 15 2018 @ 10:39 PM
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a reply to: ventian

There is a point where we will have to end a lot of those things.

But for things like Social Security, it will have to be a gradual process. For those currently mired in the system and fully dependent on it, you can't cut them off cold turkey. Cutting that cord will have to be gradual asking each step to accept that they will get less as they have had time to prepare to take care of themselves more.

And you will have to open the doors to that more. It used to be that you could stick your money in a savings account in a bank and receive a good rate of interest return on it, but right now, that's not such a good proposition. So avenues of saving will have to be opened to allow those who will be asked to take on part of their burdens to have options outside of Social Security.

And I'm not talking government controlled options although government will have to do some prodding to get people to take those doors. And people who choose not to save will have to accept the consequences of their poor decisions when the time comes, and people who would otherwise raise a stink will have to understand that sometimes, we make ourselves victims without any help from outside forces. I'm not saying no one should help those who choose poorly, but no one should make them into victims of society, either.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 06:22 AM
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a reply to: Lab4Us

That is possible.

But that is not the position I approach this situation from. First, there is no threat that does not issue from within. Our governments are, at present the greatest threat to our freedoms as people, and they remain in our country without fear of removal, despite their tyrannical abuses of our resources, and our honour as people.

Second, all threats that issue from within, are the issue of our society, and no other. Many people refuse to look deeply enough into matters to make their conclusions worth consideration, their perceptions are faulty, meaning their read of the big picture is either incomplete, or worse, utterly skewed. I am not such a person. I know that my government and that of the USA, are the instigators who created the terror networks, trained the assassins and terrorists who operate as part of that network, trained the recruiters whose task it is to steal the will of young, impressionable people, and turn them into tools of destruction. I know that this involvement in directing the affairs of terrorists is not simply a matter of history, but a continuing cycle which, even today is operating within our governments, still seeking to place wedges between the citizens of my country and yours, and the rest of the world.

The terrorists who exist in the Middle East, and their accomplices who have traveled to regions outside the immediate battle space, are agents of my government and the US government, puppets, proxies, nothing more. The same can be said of the narco terror outfits in the Americas. These are pawns, pieces in a game being played by the upper echelons of western society, a game which draws together industry elements including oil baronies, pharmaceutical operations, military industrial components, financial services providers and their owners, and the governments of the West. When some jumped up, stuffed shirted fool is induced to blow up a train, plane, bus or public event, the reason he might state in a suicide video may well be the one he BELIEVES in (because the western trained recruiters are very good at their work), but it is never the reason that the network he is part of exists, nor is it the reason he has been given the clear to proceed, nor is it the reason that he has been induced to become what he is in the first place.

The reason for all those things, comes back always to the desire of those with the most power in our world, to keep that power for themselves, and never relinquish the slightest bit of it to the people, who are its only rightful owners.

By providing a scapegoat, by creating a murderous band of savage killers, and unleashing their violence upon soft targets, our governments have made it their habit, to unite our people in fear. Fear is weakness, the very moment it has a greater power than to make you dodge when you need to dodge. If it makes you run without thinking of fighting, then it is weakness. If it makes you fight without thinking of running or hiding, it is a weakness. If it makes you cower, without thinking of running or fighting, then it is a weakness. Only if the fear a person feels is tempered by reason, compassion, logic and wisdom, does it ever amount to anything other than a weakness, and a severe one at that.

The government know this well, many of their programs rely on this fact in order to operate.

Luckily, it is possible to gain immunity to such petty concerns as fear for ones life, or that of ones fellow countrymen, and see through these charades. Knowing ones history well enough to see the linkages which permit it to repeat again, and again, and again throughout our record of time on Earth, allows one to know the right and wrong of a situation more clearly, to see the pieces even if they are cast in deepest shadow, to recognise by their effects, even if one cannot see a form yet, the true nature of ones enemy.

I know the nature of my enemy, and I know where they are. I do not concern myself with the trifling matters associated to the behaviour of their pawns abroad, nor their agents amongst us. If I am to die in a bombing, or a mass stabbing, or a shooting carried out by terrorists, then I will die free, even as they bind their own ankles and wrists in chains of sin. These things matter not. But making sure that people are informed enough not to be fooled by these parlour tricks, these games played by the powerful, making sure the truth is spoken, even if everyone is ignoring it, these things matter. Taking the blindfold from off peoples eyes, allowing people the freedom that comes with understanding, these things matter.

Petty, low minded concerns for personal safety, the fear of the unknown, and even worse, the fear that comes of being shown that the world is not black and white, but infinite shades between these two, these are nothing but weakness, a weakness upon which the very forces which are the enemies of freedom, rely heavily for control of your mind, the minds of the populace.

You will always have a choice, no matter how consumed you are by your insistence on following a false and invalid path. You will always be able to decide to stop allowing the propaganda to work on you, to abandon fear of the unknown, and embrace instead reason and compassion. You can free yourself of it, or embrace the lie, as you wish. What you may not do, however, is force reality to change to be how you see it. No matter how hard you try, you will never be able to justify any action based on your perceptions of events, because in order to justify an action or decision, you have to make it using ALL available data, not just that which sits most comfortably with you.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TinfoilTP

I just don't see your point. So the Jesuits practiced Socialist ideas. I already showed that Socialist polices go back to Aristotle and Plato, so it isn't surprising that groups that came after them also had Socialist ideas. Government caring for its citizenry isn't exactly a new concept.



It proves Marx was nothing special. He was probably just a useful tool.

Ok. So? I'm not a follower of Karl Marx or a Communist. So that means nothing to me.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 06:34 AM
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a reply to: JBurns

Trump the candidate was close to what we believed. I agree with that, but Trump the President is as far away from the left as possible. All of his policies end up being extremely right wing.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 06:36 AM
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originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Krazysh0t
^^^^I'll take 'A strawman Sublimecraft created to piss off Krazysh0t' for $500 thanks Gary.

FTFY



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
I'm not going to try to teach you about a topic you obviously haven't even bothered to look in to. Start with federalist paper number 10 that will put you on the right track. Your trying to argue a point against people that actually took the time to read the federalist papers and understand how the constitution was created.

Yeah I figured you'd cop out like this. I'm going to do exactly what I do whenever someone tells me to research their point. No. I won't. The onus of proof is on the one making the claim. So if you want to prove a point to me, then produce the quotes otherwise I'll just go on my day believing you are appealing to authority.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 06:42 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

So basically, he's mad because he doesn't get to continue to call us unelightened, racist, bigoted, homophobes from his spot on the coast. And when the people he and those like him have been smearing at manage to outvote he and his kind in elections, they fall back and whine that they're American too?

So basically you have a persecution complex and he literally didn't say any of that garbage you just said.


Guess what?

No one has ever said they're not American, but we have said that some of their ideas are anti-American in that they go against the basic ideals and principles of the COTUS and the Founders. Being American doesn't always make your opinions or policy positions right.

Guess what? I already produced several links in this very thread of Trump AND Fox News calling people unamerican. Try again.


Sorry, but people who cross the borders in defiance of immigration law are illegally here and need to go home.

Sorry, but this is off topic.


Universal health care is care that I pay for for everyone else and not care that I get a voice in for myself. It's the same care that doomed Alfie to die in defiance of his parents' wishes and in service to the state.

And most progressive cause are generally in service to superficial diversity, not true diversity of thought, while promoting government control in pursuit of equity not equality. Equity simply means equality of outcome as enforced by law.


I don't care about your partisan opinion. This thread isn't about you or I being right versus politics. It's about accepting that differing political beliefs aren't "unamerican" just because we disagree. You should go reread the OP instead of kneejerk responding with the usual right wing tripe.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 07:09 AM
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originally posted by: dug88
...politicians are all #ed in someway...


That pretty much sums it up and why they should all be tossed in the ocean.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Guess what?

I'm not talking to you.

I responded to the Op Ed you posted.



posted on May, 16 2018 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Guess what?

I'm not talking to you.

I responded to the Op Ed you posted.

Lol. Wow. That's a first. Post a bunch of #, get called out and respond, "I wasn't talking to you." Like that automatically resolves and excuses your ignorant original post that had "a reply to: Krazysh0t" at the top of it.

So guess what? I don't give a #. You are still wrong and displaying a persecution complex and I'm still going to call you out for it. Ket, your arguing skills have really gone downhill over the years I've seen you on these forums. Now I see why. If you avoid confrontation and wallow in your imagined persecutions without ever challenging your beliefs you end up with #ty posts like this one and the one prior.
edit on 16-5-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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