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Proposal to split California into 3 states has enough signatures to qualify for November ballot

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posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: NorthernLites

Notice that the lumped "the Bay Area' in with northern California, most of which is pretty conservative EXCEPT the Bay area.

This is possibly a leftist play, after all.

Coming from Northern CA, "the Bay Area" is something that anyone inland despises for its politics. Pelosi anyone?

Still be better representation for inland though... let SoCal go broke and have a renaissance, or revolution, whichever they prefer.

Wonder what would happen with water rights?

So many different issues with this that could go both ways....



Without the bay area northern California would be a welfare state.


In this proposal, the Bay Area belongs to Northern California.


This is true but not to keep liberal voters. To keep economic stability. San Francisco is a producer. From Sonoma up is not.




posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
Time to do some homework folks.

First off Tim Draper is a registered republican and has donated for the most part to only republicans. He says he is not really either party buy is literally a registered republican, republican donor and venture capitalist.

California is the 5th largest economy in the world.

They produce 14 percent of technology entire us gdp.

It's fun to make fun of liberals but in reality their cities are the producers of the gdp of the nation.

So for all the whining take a minute to say thank you for paying for the budgets of the rural areas of the country.


Perhaps it is time to do some homework.

California is not 5th anymore... it ranges between 10th and 6th. It also has a government debt alone of over 50% of its GDP. In terms of economic health in the US, it ranks 26th. In terms of State, Federal and Government Debt/GDP the ratio is 125%. In the red. Retirement programs are out of money. Whole cities are going bankrupt.

So it really doesn't matter if California generated 2.7 trillion dollars if its actual debt is over that.

It's a progressive dream actually... lots of money going into the government and lots of taxpayers who will service the debt until it collapses.

Which it will.

So no, in reality California is just another Progressive $h##hole.

Or as my relatives who live there say, it is poverty with a nice scenic view.


edit on 14-5-2018 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: NorthernLites

Notice that the lumped "the Bay Area' in with northern California, most of which is pretty conservative EXCEPT the Bay area.

This is possibly a leftist play, after all.

Coming from Northern CA, "the Bay Area" is something that anyone inland despises for its politics. Pelosi anyone?

Still be better representation for inland though... let SoCal go broke and have a renaissance, or revolution, whichever they prefer.

Wonder what would happen with water rights?

So many different issues with this that could go both ways....



Without the bay area northern California would be a welfare state.


In this proposal, the Bay Area belongs to Northern California.


This is true but not to keep liberal voters. To keep economic stability. San Francisco is a producer. From Sonoma up is not.


You previously stated that Northern California would be a welfare state without the Bay Area. I then pointed out that the Bay Area is INCLUDED in Northern California, therefore Northern California would NOT be a welfare state in this proposal. Your point does not address the reality of the proposal.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

California just became the 5th largest economy in the world surpassing the UK for the first time.

www.latimes.com...


That study ranked California 42nd among the fifty states and the District of Columbia for the amount of federal per capita expenditure ($9,172)


www.politifact.com...

Lol.


Without the cities California would be a welfare state...just a fact.
edit on 14-5-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: schuyler

Sure was just trying to explain to the people saying that was for politics and how terrible they are.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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Its not going to happen. Good talking fodder obviously....



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:44 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr
a reply to: NorthernLites

This 3-state proposal is the lefts attempt to fight off the two proposals that would give conservatives a vote that counts (The State of Jefferson and The New California Initiative). Nobody heard of this plan until those other two initiatives gained momentum. It has been developed to cause confusion.

Conservatives in California want to break away from the big city liberal B.S., not to have a Northern California that includes San Francisco.



Again Tim Draper is in no way a leftist. Not even close.


ok, thanks for the information. I don't know his background. Now I think he is misguided. He should join the New California team if he truly wants to see conservative votes counting in California. His plan seems to do nothing other than giving the left more senators as the OP pointed out.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: bluesjr

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr
a reply to: NorthernLites

This 3-state proposal is the lefts attempt to fight off the two proposals that would give conservatives a vote that counts (The State of Jefferson and The New California Initiative). Nobody heard of this plan until those other two initiatives gained momentum. It has been developed to cause confusion.

Conservatives in California want to break away from the big city liberal B.S., not to have a Northern California that includes San Francisco.



Again Tim Draper is in no way a leftist. Not even close.


ok, thanks for the information. I don't know his background. Now I think he is misguided. He should join the New California team if he truly wants to see conservative votes counting in California. His plan seems to do nothing other than giving the left more senators as the OP pointed out.


It's time to move on from thinking one party is better than the other.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr
a reply to: NorthernLites

This 3-state proposal is the lefts attempt to fight off the two proposals that would give conservatives a vote that counts (The State of Jefferson and The New California Initiative). Nobody heard of this plan until those other two initiatives gained momentum. It has been developed to cause confusion.

Conservatives in California want to break away from the big city liberal B.S., not to have a Northern California that includes San Francisco.



Again Tim Draper is in no way a leftist. Not even close.


ok, thanks for the information. I don't know his background. Now I think he is misguided. He should join the New California team if he truly wants to see conservative votes counting in California. His plan seems to do nothing other than giving the left more senators as the OP pointed out.


It's time to move on from thinking one party is better than the other.

If you believe that then you should be for splitting Cali up in such a way as to give all people a voice in how they are governed. As it is now much of Cali is Conservative, but they have little to no voice as the huge mega-cities on the coast are hyper liberal.
edit on 14-5-2018 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr
a reply to: NorthernLites

This 3-state proposal is the lefts attempt to fight off the two proposals that would give conservatives a vote that counts (The State of Jefferson and The New California Initiative). Nobody heard of this plan until those other two initiatives gained momentum. It has been developed to cause confusion.

Conservatives in California want to break away from the big city liberal B.S., not to have a Northern California that includes San Francisco.



Again Tim Draper is in no way a leftist. Not even close.


ok, thanks for the information. I don't know his background. Now I think he is misguided. He should join the New California team if he truly wants to see conservative votes counting in California. His plan seems to do nothing other than giving the left more senators as the OP pointed out.


It's time to move on from thinking one party is better than the other.

If you believe that then you should be for splitting Cali up in such a way as to give all people a voice in how they are governed. As it is now much of Cali is Conservative, but they have little to no voice as the huge mega-cities on the coast are hyper liberal.


I am. I also think the conservatives in the state should be realistic who pays the bills and how they will pay for themselves.


Seven of the ten counties in California with the lowest per capita incomes are located in the Central Valley. Two of the remaining three are rural counties in Northern California.

edit on 14-5-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Lumenari

California just became the 5th largest economy in the world surpassing the UK for the first time.

www.latimes.com...


That study ranked California 42nd among the fifty states and the District of Columbia for the amount of federal per capita expenditure ($9,172)


www.politifact.com...

Lol.


Without the cities California would be a welfare state...just a fact.


Thanks for that LA Times piece -- last I'd heard it was the 8th largest.

I've been having problems using the mobile site, so maybe something is screwy, but was there a link in the OP?

Number 1 reason this ain't happening (beyond what Schuyler pointed out w.r.t. the Federal/constitutional inertia): water rights. California can't get it right as it stands; adding 2 more agents into the mix will increase cost on the margin, at the very least, at most, create a legit crisis that would require intervention (by 'the Feds').

Not happening. Ever.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I agree I just wish we could stop bashing liberals for everything. I mean I would never call myself one or a Democrat but the truth is they provide a lot in terms of the national gdp and state gdp. Even in Texas. It's Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio driving the state..paying for rural programs.

We are all Americans. Some people think different.

Not all liberals are nuts.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:21 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr
a reply to: NorthernLites

This 3-state proposal is the lefts attempt to fight off the two proposals that would give conservatives a vote that counts (The State of Jefferson and The New California Initiative). Nobody heard of this plan until those other two initiatives gained momentum. It has been developed to cause confusion.

Conservatives in California want to break away from the big city liberal B.S., not to have a Northern California that includes San Francisco.



Again Tim Draper is in no way a leftist. Not even close.


ok, thanks for the information. I don't know his background. Now I think he is misguided. He should join the New California team if he truly wants to see conservative votes counting in California. His plan seems to do nothing other than giving the left more senators as the OP pointed out.


It's time to move on from thinking one party is better than the other.

If you believe that then you should be for splitting Cali up in such a way as to give all people a voice in how they are governed. As it is now much of Cali is Conservative, but they have little to no voice as the huge mega-cities on the coast are hyper liberal.


I am. I also think the conservatives in the state should be realistic who pays the bills and how they will pay for themselves.


Seven of the ten counties in California with the lowest per capita incomes are located in the Central Valley. Two of the remaining three are rural counties in Northern California.

Per capita is a horrible comparison since cost of living is not the same. They should be realistic about having a meaningful say. It's like saying the 5 top per capita states should just make decisions for the whole country, it's not a wise way of looking at the situation.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: luthier

No, they aren't. My dad is a die hard liberal, he also disagrees with much of what the Democrat party supports. It's a minority that is the problem, but it's a minority the majority support for one reason or another.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: bluesjr
a reply to: NorthernLites

This 3-state proposal is the lefts attempt to fight off the two proposals that would give conservatives a vote that counts (The State of Jefferson and The New California Initiative). Nobody heard of this plan until those other two initiatives gained momentum. It has been developed to cause confusion.

Conservatives in California want to break away from the big city liberal B.S., not to have a Northern California that includes San Francisco.



Again Tim Draper is in no way a leftist. Not even close.


ok, thanks for the information. I don't know his background. Now I think he is misguided. He should join the New California team if he truly wants to see conservative votes counting in California. His plan seems to do nothing other than giving the left more senators as the OP pointed out.


It's time to move on from thinking one party is better than the other.

If you believe that then you should be for splitting Cali up in such a way as to give all people a voice in how they are governed. As it is now much of Cali is Conservative, but they have little to no voice as the huge mega-cities on the coast are hyper liberal.


I am. I also think the conservatives in the state should be realistic who pays the bills and how they will pay for themselves.


Seven of the ten counties in California with the lowest per capita incomes are located in the Central Valley. Two of the remaining three are rural counties in Northern California.

Per capita is a horrible comparison since cost of living is not the same. They should be realistic about having a meaningful say. It's like saying the 5 top per capita states should just make decisions for the whole country, it's not a wise way of looking at the situation.


It's a lot more real than bashing liberals for everything..

The point I was making is maybe liberals are good at producing money that pays for rural programs and they aren't the enemy.

But hey who cares about being able to pay for yourself.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I agree I just wish we could stop bashing liberals for everything. I mean I would never call myself one or a Democrat but the truth is they provide a lot in terms of the national gdp and state gdp. Even in Texas. It's Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio driving the state..paying for rural programs.

We are all Americans. Some people think different.

Not all liberals are nuts.


Yes because there’s no oil, no farming, no cattle, etc., in Texas. Oh, wait. You can make the argument all you want that liberals are the only ones who make the economy work. You seem to forget how much of any state’s income goes right back into those big cities in the form of welfare to feed illigal immigrants (all sanctuary cities), drug rehab programs (all major cities), free stuff for all the liberals that live there, etc. I’m pretty sure northern california would get along just fine without the bay area and the millions of welfare recipients. Much like Idaho, Montana, Nevada, ND, SD, etc., do just fine without major cities and myriad expensive problems that come with them.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: luthier

No, they aren't. My dad is a die hard liberal, he also disagrees with much of what the Democrat party supports. It's a minority that is the problem, but it's a minority the majority support for one reason or another.


I feel the same about republicans. Especially dealing with moral law and blaming drugs for social failures when they can't vote to freeze spending or deal with corruption in their own party.

It's why I am an independent. I look at what they actually vote on. Not eat they say on TV they support.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: Lab4Us

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I agree I just wish we could stop bashing liberals for everything. I mean I would never call myself one or a Democrat but the truth is they provide a lot in terms of the national gdp and state gdp. Even in Texas. It's Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio driving the state..paying for rural programs.

We are all Americans. Some people think different.

Not all liberals are nuts.


Yes because there’s no oil, no farming, no cattle, etc., in Texas. Oh, wait. You can make the argument all you want that liberals are the only ones who make the economy work. You seem to forget how much of any state’s income goes right back into those big cities in the form of welfare to feed illigal immigrants (all sanctuary cities), drug rehab programs (all major cities), free stuff for all the liberals that live there, etc. I’m pretty sure northern california would get along just fine without the bay area and the millions of welfare recipients. Much like Idaho, Montana, Nevada, ND, SD, etc., do just fine without major cities and myriad expensive problems that come with them.


Accept there are actually measures for those things. So....

And many rural states require federal money. Particularly in the south.

taxfoundation.org...

And most of the state's you mentioned.
edit on 14-5-2018 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: luthier

That's because of all of the underhanded, underpaid, fiscal abuse of the migrant laborer.

I grew up in Bakersfield, in Kern County, and I saw first hand in places like Arvin and Shafter and Wasco (and the outskirts of Bakersfield) how these people were (mis)paid and (mis)treated. And there are a LOT of these people, driving average income levels down compared to coastal cities and places like, say, Silicone Valley.

Plus, I've done the research very recently--a salary of about $155K in Los Angeles has the same buying power as $100K in Bakersfield, CA, so the per-capita incomes mean nothing when you ignore cost of living. As far as the San Joaquin Valley is concerned, just the agricultural industry alone produces enough money annually to compete with and exceed the total GDPs of the bottom five states in America, and there are many more industries along Highway 99 to add to that total, to include a pretty decent energy industry as well as manufacturing industry.

My point being that, if the Central Valley were to be segregated from the northern and coastal cities in California and left to its own governance, it would do quite well, and would most likely distance itself from the far-left legislation that has kept California from being house-poor, so to speak. One not need to imply that, suddenly, the central valley would become a poor state just because over-inflated salaries in giant urban areas artificially skew reality that the counties in the San Joaquin Valley are not poor.



posted on May, 14 2018 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Um, pretty sure we were talking about California splitting up and your thesis that a northern California couldn't survive without the bay area. Well, and your disingenuous assertion only cities produce in Texas and there is no income from other sources.

Charts that show federal money goes various places is irrelevant because almost ALL citizens pay taxes, not just the “big city” liberals. For someone who wants to not be in the overall liberal box, you seem to speak just like one.



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