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There is no "evolution into a higher order".............
originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: peter vlar
There is no "evolution into a higher order".............
REALLY?
I personally like hardcore and respected scientists who are willing to speculate.........For example Max Planck the
famous Noble Prize winning physicist [Quantum Theory] of the last century:
Of course he was a physicist, but these three quotes 'could' be applied to Evolution:
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
― Max Planck, Where is Science Going?
“Religion and natural science are fighting a joint battle in an incessant, never relaxing crusade against skepticism and against dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition... [and therefore] 'On to God!”
― Max Planck
“Science…means unresting endeavor and continually progressing development toward an aim which the poetic intuition may apprehend, but the intellect can never fully grasp.”
― Max Planck
So maybe you don't have a direction into a higher order - and maybe we can't see exactly what the direciton leads to.
But to say "There is no "evolution into a higher order"" is ........????
OK, I too could postulate - So I'll take Alien genetic experiment over no answer and no direction.
And no one can dispute that genetics is a genuine verifiable science.
As to what the goals and aims of this ongoing experiment were and are - All answers are hypothetical.
But what is obvious [to me] is the obvious experimental nature of Evolution.
originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: VoxVirtus
I get a strange feeling of deja vu
Can you show me a mutation where new genetic information is added not assumed
Then I will bow down to your higher intelligence, in other words, you will win
I will have no argument
originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: 99problems
...there's absolutely zero evidence that any god did it....
originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: peter vlar
First - nice debating with you - Always educational.
Now, minus my own hypothetical assertions and prejudices - Let my simplify the basic point I was trying to make.
When you say: "There is no "evolution into a higher order"............." - How do you know this? And isn't it currently
accepted to put Man at the top of the Evolutionary ladder?
Or, would you say that just because Man observes and calculates Evolution does not necessarily mean he is its
end product - He is not necessarily at the top of the ladder? Agreed maybe he is not the goal - IF there be a goal
which you seem to be saying there is not.
Yes, it is possible, until proven otherwise, that you are right - But simply put you can't prove that either.
Evolution implies a progression of life from one cell to multi-celled beings to genetic reproduction which has an
experimental quality to it - To Man who can observe it all and then reflect upon it.
Is this not a direction - "Evolution into a higher order" ?
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Woodcarver
... evolution which our ENTIRE medical knowledge is based on?!?!
A man may imagine things that are false, but he can only understand things that are true, for if the things be false, the apprehension of them is not understanding. - Isaac Newton
Scientists cured diseases by using evolution..
Dear High School Students,
The folks at the Alliance for Science have sponsored an essay contest for high school students. They ask students to write an essay on ‘Why I would want my doctor to have studied evolution.’ First prize is a copy of Darwin’s Origin of Species. Second prize is two copies of Darwin’s Origin of Species! (Just kidding.)
Really, it’s a funny question. Think about it. Would anyone sponsor an essay contest on ‘Why I would want my doctor to study anatomy’ or ‘Why I would want my doctor to study physiology’? Of course not, because we all know that these kinds of science are important to medicine. Is evolutionary biology important? If it is, why do they have to ask the question?
Doctors don’t study evolution. Doctors never study it in medical school, and they never use evolutionary biology in their practice. There are no courses in medical school on evolution. There are no ‘professors of evolution’ in medical schools. There are no departments of evolutionary biology in medical schools.
If you needed treatment for a brain tumor, your medical team would include a physicist (who designed the MRI that diagnosed your tumor), a chemist and a pharmacologist (who made the medicine to treat you), an engineer and an anesthesiologist (who designed and used the machine that give you anesthesia), a neurosurgeon (who did the surgery to remove your tumor), a pathologist (who studied the tumor under a microscope and determined what type of tumor it was), and nurses and oncologists (who help you recover and help make sure the tumor doesn’t come back). There would be no evolutionary biologists on your team.
I am a professor of neurosurgery, I work and teach at a medical school, I do brain research, and in 20 years I’ve performed over 4000 brain operations. I never use evolutionary biology in my work. Would I be a better surgeon if I assumed that the brain arose by random events? Of course not. Doctors are detectives. We look for patterns, and in the human body, patterns look very much like they were designed. Doctors know that, from the intricate structure of the human brain to the genetic code, our bodies show astonishing evidence of design. That’s why most doctors–nearly two-thirds according to national polls–don’t believe that human beings arose merely by chance and natural selection. Most doctors don’t accept evolutionary biology as an adequate explanation for life. Doctors see, first-hand, the design of life.
I do use many kinds of science related to changes in organisms over time. Genetics is very important, as are population biology and microbiology. But evolutionary biology itself, as distinct from these scientific fields, contributes nothing to modern medicine.
Without using evolutionary theory, doctors and scientists have discovered vaccines (Jenner, in the 18th century, before Darwin was born), discovered that germs cause infectious diseases (Pasteur, in the 19th century, who ignored Darwin), discovered genes (Mendel, in the 19th century, who was a priest and not a supporter of Darwin’s theory), discovered antibiotics, and unraveled the secrets of the genetic code (the key to these discoveries was the discovery of the apparent design in the DNA double helix). Heart, liver, and kidney transplants, new treatments for cancer and heart disease, and a host of life-saving advances in medicine have been developed without input from evolutionary biologists. No Nobel prize in medicine has ever been awarded for work in evolutionary biology. In fact, I think it’s safe to say that the only contribution evolution has made to modern medicine is to take it down the horrific road of eugenics, which brought forced sterilization and bodily harm to many thousands of Americans in the early 1900s. That’s a contribution which has brought shame–not advance–to the medical field.
So ‘Why would I want my doctor to have studied evolution?’ I wouldn’t. Evolutionary biology isn’t important to modern medicine. That answer won’t win the ‘Alliance for Science’ prize. It’s just the truth.
Michael Egnor, M.D.
They ask students to write an essay on ‘Why I would want my doctor to have studied evolution.’
leading question:
a question that prompts or encourages the desired answer.
originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: peter vlar
You had better to provide more examples, not one of those I looked at was conclusive
You are full of crap and a scientific philistine Peter, a joke
I asked for evidence that genetic information was added during mutation, you have offered nothing. Beneficial mutation doesn't require additional information, just endorse duplication and that ain't what you think it is
RNASE1, a gene for a pancreatic enzyme, was duplicated, and in langur monkeys one of the copies mutated into RNASE1B, which works better in the more acidic small intestine of the langur. (Zhang et al. 2002)
originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Sauvignon
What I find amusing is those who defend the science with nothing
Nearly a dozen pages and no answers
You would think the average evolutionist would work out that they are doing more harm than good for their cause and leave it alone
No beneficial mutations, no increase of information, nothing and they are still talking like they have science on their side
It beggars belief
I have no doubt a peer reviewed journal article is on its way 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
originally posted by: Xenogears
So an entire cell appearing out of thin air is seemingly allowed by known science, if I'm not mistaken, but it is far far more likely that simple machines arose from spontaneous chemical reactions in the beginning.
Many who believe in evolution would tell you that billions of years ago, life began on the edge of an ancient tidal pool or deep in the ocean. They feel that in some such location, chemicals spontaneously assembled into bubblelike structures, formed complex molecules, and began replicating. They believe that all life on earth originated by accident from one or more of these “simple” original cells.
Other equally respected scientists who also support evolution disagree. They speculate that the first cells or at least their major components arrived on earth from outer space. Why? Because, despite their best efforts, scientists have been unable to prove that life can spring from nonliving molecules. In 2008, Professor of Biology Alexandre Meinesz highlighted the dilemma. He stated that over the last 50 years, “no empirical evidence supports the hypotheses of the spontaneous appearance of life on Earth from nothing but a molecular soup, and no significant advance in scientific knowledge leads in this direction.” (How Life Began—Evolution’s Three Geneses, by Alexandre Meinesz, translated by Daniel Simberloff, 2008, pp. 30-33, 45.)
What does the evidence reveal? The answer to the question, Where do babies come from? is well-documented and uncontroversial. Life always comes from preexisting life. However, if we go back far enough in time, is it really possible that this fundamental law was broken? Could life really spontaneously spring from nonliving chemicals? What are the chances that such an event could happen?
Researchers have learned that for a cell to survive, at least three different types of complex molecules must work together—DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid), RNA (ribonucleic acid), and proteins. Today, few scientists would assert that a complete living cell suddenly formed by chance from a mix of inanimate chemicals. What, though, is the probability that RNA or proteins could form by chance? * (*: The probability of DNA forming by chance will be discussed in section 3, “Where Did the Instructions Come From?”)
Many scientists feel that life could arise by chance because of an experiment first conducted in 1953. In that year, Stanley L. Miller was able to produce some amino acids, the chemical building blocks of proteins, by discharging electricity into a mixture of gases that was thought to represent the atmosphere of primitive earth. Since then, amino acids have also been found in a meteorite. Do these findings mean that all the basic building blocks of life could easily be produced by chance?
“Some writers,” says Robert Shapiro, professor emeritus of chemistry at New York University, “have presumed that all life’s building blocks could be formed with ease in Miller-type experiments and were present in meteorites. This is not the case.”2 *
Consider the RNA molecule. It is constructed of smaller molecules called nucleotides. A nucleotide is a different molecule from an amino acid and is only slightly more complex. Shapiro says that “no nucleotides of any kind have been reported as products of spark-discharge experiments or in studies of meteorites.”3 He further states that the probability of a self-replicating RNA molecule randomly assembling from a pool of chemical building blocks “is so vanishingly small that its happening even once anywhere in the visible universe would count as a piece of exceptional good luck.”4
RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the production of RNA. How could either one arise by chance, let alone both? ...
*: Professor Shapiro does not believe that life was created. He believes that life arose by chance in some fashion not yet fully understood. In 2009, scientists at the University of Manchester, England, reported making some nucleotides in their lab. However, Shapiro states that their recipe “definitely does not meet my criteria for a plausible pathway to the RNA world.”
2. Scientific American, “A Simpler Origin for Life,” by Robert Shapiro, June 2007, p. 48.
a. The New York Times, “A Leading Mystery of Life’s Origins Is Seemingly Solved,” by Nicholas Wade, May 14, 2009, p. A23.
3. Scientific American, June 2007, p. 48.
4. Scientific American, June 2007, pp. 47, 49-50.
...
Researcher Hubert P. Yockey, who supports the teaching of evolution, goes further. He says: “It is impossible that the origin of life was ‘proteins first.’”5 RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the production of RNA. What if, despite the extremely small odds, both proteins and RNA molecules did appear by chance in the same place at the same time? How likely would it be for them to cooperate to form a self-replicating, self-sustaining type of life? “The probability of this happening by chance (given a random mixture of proteins and RNA) seems astronomically low,” says Dr. Carol Cleland *, a member of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Astrobiology Institute. “Yet,” she continues, “most researchers seem to assume that if they can make sense of the independent production of proteins and RNA under natural primordial conditions, the coordination will somehow take care of itself.” Regarding the current theories of how these building blocks of life could have arisen by chance, she says: “None of them have provided us with a very satisfying story about how this happened.”6
*: Dr. Cleland is not a creationist. She believes that life arose by chance in some fashion not yet fully understood.
5. Information Theory, Evolution, and the Origin of Life, by Hubert P. Yockey, 2005, p. 182.
6. NASA’s Astrobiology Magazine, “Life’s Working Definition—Does It Work?”, accessed 3/17/2009.
...
To believe that even a “simple” living cell arose by chance from nonliving chemicals requires a huge leap of faith.
...
originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: VoxVirtus
I get a strange feeling of deja vu
Can you show me a mutation where new genetic information is added not assumed
Then I will bow down to your higher intelligence, in other words, you will win
I will have no argument
Directed evolution (DE, "gelenkte Evolution") is a method used in protein engineering that mimics the process of natural selection to evolve proteins or nucleic acids toward a user-defined goal.[1] It consists of subjecting a gene to iterative rounds of mutagenesis (creating a library of variants), selection (expressing the variants and isolating members with the desired function), and amplification (generating a template for the next round). It can be performed in vivo (in living cells), or in vitro (free in solution or microdroplet). Directed evolution is used both for protein engineering as an alternative to rationally designing modified proteins, as well as studies of fundamental evolutionary principles in a controlled, laboratory environment.directed evolution