Water divination! It's real!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Agreed.

A Hammaraxx stated, it isn't the same kind of force as gravity crossing the wires due to inclination. Anyone can do that. The wires in one case with me literally slammed together hard enough to hurt a little, over the underground spring that feeds our main well. In contrast, the wires can be made to cross by adjusting one's hands, but they cross much more slowly and much less forcefully.

I am not seeing how magnetism could be responsible, since it apparently works as well for copper and brass rods. I used steel coathangers like Hammaraxx, but the posts above are certainly not the first time I have heard of other metals being used. Perhaps an electrostatic attraction? I've never heard of it working with a non-metallic rod.

Water is a funny substance anyway. It's not H2O... it's more a mish-mash of H2O, H3O+, OH-, H+, H3O2-, and probably some more variants, all constantly changing from one to another and shifting bonds as they go. The local electrostatic field on the molecular level is insane... maybe that translates to a macro level?

TheRedneck

a reply to: Hammaraxx



Well, considering today is Mother's Day... my first without my mother (she passed back in December) and it has been rather introspective for me... just having something to do with you and your Dad having a good time makes everything seem a little bit brighter. Thank you for letting me have that vicarious moment through you.

And I'm sure your Dad enjoyed it more than you did. Both my kids are grown, moved off, married, and I don't get to see them nearly as much as I'd like to. I really miss the days when me and my boy would do things together.

But, getting away from all that mushy stuff... not everything has to be "scientific." I deal with scientific experiments every day. Sure, to get the reports Phage links to, one has to be careful to establish a lack of bias and document/quantify everything, but before one gets to that stage... let's just say there's a lot of seat-of-the-pants, let's-try-this-and-see-what-happens, we'll-fix-it-later going on.

TheRedneck

I've seen it in action as well - I was about to get a little PO'd when I paid for fiber to be run to our building, and the company we hired brought in a guy to find existing pipes etc. that might get in the way, and he pulled out a couple of metal rods and started walking around the property with them.

But that changed to surprise when he accurately found all the pipes on our and the adjoining property. Even had us try it (wasn't very good) but yea.. it certainly works. You don't risk drilling through pipes or sewer as a fiber company if it doesn't work. That's all the proofs I needed.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I just thought it was interesting the one gal stating her electrochemical issues and divining not working at all for her. People seek out her husband to do it.

The other interesting tidbit is, the old surveyor I referred to above told me that metals 'other' than steel actually work better, and in that example he was using brass brazing rod (which he felt worked best). So yeah, it can't involve magnetism because this would obviously rule out brass.

Just thinking about it now, I guess I need to look into exactly how some metal detectors work that detect metals other than iron (i.e. gold, silver, brass, etc). I wonder if the principles could be related(?)

Here's another experiment you can do. Get a smartphone with built in magnetometer and a sensor application. Move it around and see if there is anything that changes. Indoors, the magnetic field can vary from a few hundred nano-Tesla to tens of thousands of nano-Tesla. Not noticeable by anyone, but it is there. By comparison, a MRI scanner is 2 to 3 Tesla.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
So one of my theories is, it must have something to do with electrochemical phenomenon (some sort of galvanic reaction maybe?). It's an interesting topic to be sure.

I like that, a possible galvanic response! I wish science would pretend, for now, that this actually works. Until such time that science can survey a plot of land, cheaply and accurately, to do this bloody double blind study. Meanwhile, acting as if true, tests are carried out to find out the how, maybe this will help develop the tech to finally proves this works!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Ah, dowsing can be done with wood, like hazel or willow or just freshly cut, down to the persons choice.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That sounds like an excellent place to start looking. I'll parallel you and see what we can find.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Dae

I wish science would pretend, for now, that this actually works.

Science tends not to pretend, science has tried to prove it works. To little avail.
One example of many.
www.csicop.org...

a reply to: TheRedneck

Buy Now!

a reply to: Phage

From seller "Enchanted Jewelry" no less! LOL! Ain't capitalism fun to watch?

I once had the idea of gathering cuckleburrs and selling then for porcupine eggs...

TheRedneck

OK, looks like magnetism might be at the core after all...

Metal detectors work by introducing an AC electromagnetic field that induces an AC electrical signal in any type of conductive metal within range. That induced voltage gradient then causes a tiny AC current in the metal that induces magnetic eddies. Those magnetic eddies are then picked up by the detector (probably using a Hall Effect sensor).

Now, thinking about that... consider a person with two metal rods in their hand, witching for water. If a tiny electrical current (much less than what could be felt) were induced from the end of the rod in their right hand to the end of the rod in their left hand, that would create an electrical circuit. The currents would induce magnetic eddies around the rods of opposing polarity and cause any metallic (conductive) rods to be attracted to each other.

For the effect to be so noticeable at such low power levels, the frequency would have to be pretty high.

The question is then, how does water create this induction? I am thinking it may be the side effect of what I mentioned above with the rapidly changing chemical composition at the molecular level. That would mean what we are picking up is essentially white noise from the water itself.

Here's you something to experiment on Phage... once you prove the phenomenon exists to your (scientific) satisfaction, try it again with de-ionized water. See if the effect weakens or disappears.

TheRedneck

a reply to: 3n19m470
It would seem that differences within the body does make a difference since some people cannot do it. Some people cannot remove warts by rubbing them, others can. Some people can't play musical instruments without training, others can. I have no idea why but I do know that several years ago a lot of money was spent on studies of those who could remove warts using only their hands. This was formerly considered voodoo by the ignorant people of the world but after several years and a lot of money spent, they did prove that the people who can remove warts have a slightly different body chemistry. I don't recall off the top of my head how their chemistry was different but they "proved" that wart removal wasn't voodoo or magical.

I've only used the rods made from coat hangers but I've witnessed people using willow wands and pendulums. I've found septic fields and tanks that were unused for decades, drain pipes that were long dry as well as active water pipes. Doesn't matter if the pipes are metal or other materials. I've found abandoned wells that have been filled in as well. Of course, I didn't know what I was finding when I found the large items, like a septic tank. I was quite confused when, early in my career, I found what appeared to be a pipe that was six feet wide. We were pretty sure that there wasn't an underground aqueduct but as I finished walking the grid and looked at the pattern of flags, we were able to make an accurate guess that it was a septic system since it had a single line running to one end of this big anomaly and two lines branching off from the other end.

As I've stated many times---I have no real idea of how it works but from my over 30 years of observations, I can say with confidence that it does work for me and most (80%) of the people who have tried it.

I do know that my late husband was one of the 20% who were unable to do it. We often wondered if his inability to do it was linked to the fact that he had various metal bits and pieces in his body holding different parts together by the time he attempted it for the first time. He had several screws and a rod in his wrist and a platinum plate in his leg that would set off metal detectors in airports and court houses. It would be interesting to know if anyone had lost the dowsing ability after having a knee or hip replacement.

Strictly anecdotal on my part, but somehow or other, it works for me, as well.

I was 12, I think? Round about that, anyway...

Just messing about, imagine my surprise when the darned things, old pieces of baling wire, went from pointing straight ahead, to crossing, then uncrossing, within a couple of steps...

Having no idea what we'd find, and having nothing better to do with our time...sad, I know. My brother and I dug a hole to see what, if anything was there. We found an old water line about two feet down that ran off in the direction of the old vacant lot next door, which had, so far anyone living had known, there'd been nothing built. Our day got more interesting after that...following along the line of the pipe, it was a 1" pipe, we found where an small shop/storage shed of some sort had been, or it's foundation, anyway. In the process of digging on that a bit, we found a small box of tin horses heads that had been buried there for some odd reason...why they were buried there remains a mystery forever unsolved.

Later we found where the pipe started it was separate from the house water, which is why we didn't know it was there, and we used it for watering the garden and used a lot less hose when my parents got around to buying the lot next door for garden space.

All started because of dousing.

All in all, it was a very interesting day.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
OK, looks like magnetism might be at the core after all...

Metal detectors work by introducing an AC electromagnetic field that induces an AC electrical signal in any type of conductive metal within range. That induced voltage gradient then causes a tiny AC current in the metal that induces magnetic eddies. Those magnetic eddies are then picked up by the detector (probably using a Hall Effect sensor).

This makes perfect sense.

Now, thinking about that... consider a person with two metal rods in their hand, witching for water. If a tiny electrical current (much less than what could be felt) were induced from the end of the rod in their right hand to the end of the rod in their left hand, that would create an electrical circuit. The currents would induce magnetic eddies around the rods of opposing polarity and cause any metallic (conductive) rods to be attracted to each other.

Progress!

For the effect to be so noticeable at such low power levels, the frequency would have to be pretty high.

Hmmmm...I'll have to think about that one for a moment.

The question is then, how does water create this induction?

Well, a galvanic action is an electrochemical one, so if the water was surrounded by a material where this type of a reaction would occur then we'd have a perfect environment for eddy currents around the source of the water, right?

I am thinking it may be the side effect of what I mentioned above with the rapidly changing chemical composition at the molecular level. That would mean what we are picking up is essentially white noise from the water itself.

Interesting. Possible I guess. I'm still thinking it's electrochemical though.

Here's you something to experiment on Phage... once you prove the phenomenon exists to your (scientific) satisfaction, try it again with de-ionized water. See if the effect weakens or disappears.

TheRedneck

Wouldn't it be crazy if we actually solved a several hundred year old myth / riddle like this right here on ATS!!!

What a hoot!

DP

Triple even! Wow

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Could be the type of electrochemical I think you're thinking... the hydrogen bonding in water is electrochemical in nature as well. What surrounding material are you thinking? I'm sure soil would fall into that category, but what about pipes? Would there be a diffrerence in what you're thinking between plastic poly, PVC, iron, and copper? The ones I found long ago were both black poly and PVC... Dad hated using iron pipe... it rusts.

It really would be awesome if we could put together a scientific explanation for water witching, and attribute it to ATS!

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Tired, and must go to the rack, but...

In another life, when I was much younger, I worked in earthwork and underground utility construction. An odd thing I noticed was pipe like PVC and other petroleum based materials became brittle if it didn't have water in it. So, I always wondered if water didn't somehow saturate the pipe material and somehow keep it pliable. If so, this would support an electrochemical reaction with the earth surrounding the pipe material. (i.e. when the pipe had water in it).

I can't honestly say I've ever seen a witch type thing locate empty pipes or voids underground. So my theory only involves water.

I just thought it was interesting how abandoned pipe became brittle with no water in it. The brittleness is not related to the phenomenon, directly, but it might explain some of the whys in galvanic reactions with the water. Hence my thought.

ETA...there are other possible explanations for the pipe being brittle, so this is not absolute evidence. However, some of the 'other' reasons involve the surrounding earth leaching some of the structural properties out of the pipe which, when considered, are the exact same phenomenon in reverse. Just a thought.

a reply to: TheRedneck

It really would be awesome if we could put together a scientific explanation for water witching, and attribute it to ATS!

Even awesomer if you could come up with an experiment to test the hypothesis.