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Shouldn’t consent laws be couched around a firm rejection??

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posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:08 AM
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Shouldn’t any movement around improving consent be couched in a firm rejection..


For example...

If you have sex with someone who is black out drunk. That’s not a consent issue.. that is a rape charge..

If someone firmly tells you no.. that is not a consent issue.. that is a rape..


It seems to me the issue of questionable consent comes from the lack of a firm rejection..

Because with a firm rejection. Consent is off the table.. now you have moved on to rape..


It just seems like attempting to put the responsibility of consent on the male. Is confusing and counterproductive when they are not usually the ones where the issue comes from..


Atleast when I think of consent issues. I think the female didn’t want to, but didn’t want or feel safe enough to level a firm rejection.

Well..

A) if your afraid to tell someone no. You probably shouldn’t be dating them..

B) if you tell someone no, everyone in the situation knows that is rape.. so if he continues, he knows he is a rapist and the full force of the US government will back the victim in seeking justice.


Then they regret it during or later and say they really didn’t consent..

Well, they really didn’t reject them either..


If the person who doesn’t want to have sex levels a firm rejection. I’m not seeing how consent is even a thing... and we can’t be assigning emotions to legal ramifications..


Seems to me we should be impowering people to say no if they are uncomfortable. Not expecting the other person to mind read or fill out a pre-sex contract.

That’s just not realistic.


It just seems to me that the base problem of consent is 100% because of the lack of a firm refusal..


The problem of rape is a different animal completely and really shouldn’t be included in a conversation on consent... because there really would be no consent issue if the victim spoke up.



edit on 11-5-2018 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-5-2018 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:23 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Consent is an interesting topic.
In a town near me a 25yr old tattoo artist was trading his work for sexual favors with 15 and 16 year old girls.

He's in jail for statutory rape.

Did the girls get raped?
No
Did the get prostitution charges?
No
We're they innocent little virgins being taken advantage of by an older man?
No

He's still in prison.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:24 AM
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If getting drunk and screwing is rape...I've been raped many times.
Yeah...you may regret it in the morning, but nobody twisted my arm and it is what it is.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: Bluntone22

And he deserves to be.. a child cannot consent to sex....



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: skunkape23

I said black out drunk .. basically having sex with someone passed out..



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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So if a guy can intimate a girl into not speaking that isn't rape? Really?



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

What is worse than rape that could be used as intimidation??





I’ll kill you if you say no”?


That would still be rape lol..


By anyone’s definition...

Consent is only an issue in questionable circumstances...

I see no way to intimidate someone where rape is still questionable



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:46 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: ScepticScot

What is worse than rape that could be used as intimidation??





I’ll kill you if you say no”?


That would still be rape lol..


By anyone’s definition...

Consent is only an issue in questionable circumstances...

I see no way to intimidate someone where rape is still questionable


I think its massively simplistic to suggest that you can define consent or not as saying no.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

My wife firmly rejects me all the time.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: skunkape23
If getting drunk and screwing is rape...I've been raped many times.
Yeah...you may regret it in the morning, but nobody twisted my arm and it is what it is.

Here's what I reject about many consent laws. Inability to give consent while intoxicated isn't based on physical strength, it's ostensibly based on mental ability to give consent due to impairment. If that's true, a woman should be guilty of rape too in these situations because men can be severely intoxicated. However, these laws are not often implemented equally, and usually it's some woman claiming the intoxication rape argument, and courts or college campuses agreeing. It's quite the double standard.

And, as you and many people have said, people of all genders go out regularly, get high or drunk, and hook up. This hypothetically means that a majority of people could claim rape retroactively if desired. It's ripe for abuse.

A friend of mine was seeing a woman for a while and they were active sexually. Then, he broke up with her and she told people that he had taken advantage of her drunk, even though they had been having sex drunk and sober for a while.

I don't think some of these trends are good nor just.


edit on 11-5-2018 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-5-2018 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

So let me get this right...

The male is supposed to get a signed contract, but the female cannot even be expected to utter the word no...


That makes sense....



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: BlueJacket

And I assume you know if you force her after that it is rape...



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:03 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: ScepticScot

So let me get this right...

The male is supposed to get a signed contract, but the female cannot even be expected to utter the word no...


That makes sense....


No one mentioned signed contract. That is sad MRA fantasist hyperbole.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Name one situation where the victim saying no wouldn’t have instantly changed it from a consent issue to a rape issue???
edit on 11-5-2018 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

So how are teens screwing each other like jackrabbits throughout their years in school? You telling me getting laid in high school made me a rapist?

Sure if an older person manipulates a teen into sex that would be statutory but to say a child can't consent is pretty silly...that's why we have laws determining how much of an age difference is not ok when it cones to minors.
edit on 11-5-2018 by RickyD because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: ScepticScot

Name one situation where the victim saying no wouldn’t have changed it from a consent issue to a rape issue???


Ignoring all the circumstances when a women would be too scared or intimidated to say no.



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Sounds subjective...how does one legislate that?



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: ScepticScot

Sounds subjective...how does one legislate that?


The law is almost always subjective. For very good reasons



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: RickyD

No.. kids having sex with other kids is not illegal..

Adults having sex with kids is...



That is not hard math..



posted on May, 11 2018 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

When is the law being subjective a good thing?!?!




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