John Kerry colluded with hostile foreign power to influence US policy

a reply to: JBurns

his actions could be construed as intentionally undermining the US government's stance on the matter.

Which was what?

This could easily meet the legal definition of the crime. This is why I emphasized "Approaching" treason

Not even close! Petitioning foreign entities as a private citizen, from no governmental position of authority, regarding an agreement that includes several countries and affects countless foreign and domestic industry's bottom line is not illegal, and comes no where near treason.

Did he aid a hostile foreign power? Give them aid or comfort? It is "treason" if he did those things.

How could he have? What sanctuary can Kerry possible offer?

On the hand, Trump has done exactly that for Russia. Russia benifits greatly from the US withdrawing from the Iran deal and impsing banking sanctions. A strategic and financial boon for them, and probably China too, as Iran seeks alternative currancy.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Iran ratted out Kerry.

He met with Iran's foreign minister in New York, specifically to try to keep the Iran deal in place.

What Kerry possibly to Iran, and what could Iran possible do to keep the deal in place? Iran has not violated the agreement and has say in the US withdrawing from the deal. Macron and Merkel both tried to convince Trump not to violate their agreement. They has no influence over Trump. Kerry has no influence over Trump, and it's Trump that is making or breaking the deal, not Iran, not Kerry. This is all Trump's doing!

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Would you agree that Iran, a nation who chants "Death to America! Death to Israel!" and denies the holocaust, is a hostile foreign power? The same nation that engages in terrorism around the globe, funds/arms/trains terrorist groups, engages in proxy warfare against US forces/allies and threatens to destabilize the world via its breakout nuclear program.

Do you not find the double-standard striking?

It is OK to admit "your side" also makes mistakes. You can do so without compromising your core values. But for the love of God, if we're going to hold people accountable for every mistake (past, present and future) then it needs to be consistent. Having a (D) by your name or being a former Obama Admin appointee shouldn't grant you special immunity from the law.

Either that, or folks could stop trying to take out their anger through the legal system and start using the ballot box again. I'd like to know how many folks (on both sides of the aisle) didn't even bother to show up to vote. Yet a good portion of the left make abhorrent claims against a President half this country's voters cast a ballot for. They minimize our views, opinions, concerns and beliefs by casting those aside, and claiming we only voted for him "because of Russians" while ignoring every single provable example on their own side (the left). From Hillary Clinton (British + Russian "collusion") to FBI insiders (who worked on both Clinton & Trump's case) "colluding" to destroy the President's reputation to Lynch/Clinton's secret meeting to John Kerry consorting with the Iranians to achieve goals contrary to stated official policy and many other examples.

Some shouldn't be so quick to throw stones. There are examples of "collusion" everywhere, depending on how one views the particular event. Me? I prefer to stick to well-defined and tested legal theories and precedent and defined USC

a reply to: JBurns

Good thing for John Kerry that team Trump is trying to get rid of the Logan Act, huh?

[U) Due to the lack of prosecutions un- der t he Logan Act and despite the various apparent violations since its passage, Con- gress should evaluate the la1.-v's utility and consider repealing it

From the HPSCI report:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Iran did factually violate the deal. This is proven thanks to information obtained by an Israeli intelligence operation against Iran. Per the terms of the JCPOA, Iran would not pursue nuclear weapons. Through the intelligence collected by the Israeli government, we see that Iran was in fact pursuing nuclear weapons technology and requisite scientific knowledge to bring about a nuclear detonation.

The JCPOA also required the US government to re-certify the agreement, which was part of the effort to monitor the deal. It gave the US government an opportunity to (among other solutions) refuse to re-certify the agreement, thus voiding the agreement.

We did not violate the agreement. We refused to re-certify Iran's compliance with the agreement, since our country received evidence of Iran's non-compliance.

You should read up on the design of "Little boy" from WW2. Its design concept is terrifyingly simple, and wasn't even tested prior to its deployment. While these weapons are limited in their overall potential destructive yield, I would hardly consider Nagasaki/Hiroshima sized damage "limited." A nation with a professed intent to turn Israel into ash can not be allowed to hold the World hostage with nuclear weapons.

Kim Jong-un, for all his faults, has apparently seen the wisdom in denuclearizing. He apparently has entered into negotiations with an open mind, and an attitude of real change for his country. Would be nice to see Iran sit down to seriously consider how to responsibly move forward. Attacking Israel with missiles from Syria is certainly not a responsible choice, and shows its true intent.

a reply to: JBurns


How is this about me, or whomever you perceive to be "my side".

You claimed that Kerry may be close to committing treason, because he has been talking to Iranian officials about the possibility of Trump violating their agreement.

Your claim is whack. Kerry has no clout and doesn't represent the US government. He couldn't have promised Iran anything. He has no sanctuary to offer. This is just dumb!

He could have possibly given insight into what he knows about Trump and his agenda, like Michael Cohen apparently did for ATT, et al, and/or possibly lobbied on behalf of any of several interested entities.

But, you guys go ahead and go crazy over every nut job theory Rudy Guiliani throws out there, and this is Guiliani's theory, he teased it on the weekend media blitze he did last weekend. At least your talking abou Kerry and not Russia, or Stormy Daniels.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I should clarify, I meant "you" in the generic sense of Russia-gate conspiracy theorists. I apologize if it sounded like I intended those comments for you personally Sookiechacha

a reply to: JBurns


Citation needed, please. Because, if you're talking about Netenyahu's dramatic presentation of Iran lies, that was proven to be out of date, information from before the deal was made.

Pretty much everyone, including Isreali intelligence and Trump's own generals and cabinet members, before he fired them, confirms that Iran has kept to their side of the deal, everyone except Trump and (Iraqi WMDs) Bolton!

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: JBurns


What proof is there that Kerry was in the Middle East trying to undermine US policy? I thought the Iran deal was a matter of US policy.

Perhaps, like Mike Flynn did with Russia regarding newly imposed sanctions, Kerry was trying to smooth feathers, and ask Iran for patience with Trump's threats, and consider ahead of time, what they (Iran) might want to bring to the table under NEW negotiations.

Logan act violation. Just look at his family connections to Iran to see where his motivation was.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

someone who is no longer employed, and not being recruited for employment...that is called "treason".

LOL, "TREASON"...Drama Queen much!

No, It's called lobbying.

It can't be lobbying when its the former SOS travelling to a country to prop up his own deal. To "lobby" he'd have had to effect his own government, as his own government was the one pulling the plug and was the only one with any control over anything.

From where I stand he was conspiring. What other effort could be made to Iran to salvage a deal we were going to stop honoring?

You have no idea what Kerry did or said. He certainly had no leverage to make any promises for the Trump administration like Flynn did.

Nor do you. What we have are media reports. If they are wrong, its just another reason for Trump to yank credentials as they are not publishing anything but propaganda.

Until that time, im going to take the media reports in good faith, and discuss them here. If you don't want to participate, feel free to not.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: JBurns


Citation needed, please. Because, if you're talking about Netenyahu's dramatic presentation of Iran lies, that was proven to be out of date, information from before the deal was made.

Pretty much everyone, including Isreali intelligence and Trump's own generals and cabinet members, before he fired them, confirms that Iran has kept to their side of the deal, everyone except Trump and (Iraqi WMDs) Bolton!

Ahem, citation needed.

Please.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

www.dailywire.com...

They already have nukes.

I don't think any argument can be made that Kerry did not violate the Logan Act, which he did and did knowingly.

The Logan Act will never be enforced or used, it's a meaningless thing. The Logan Act is the law of the land, but it simply does not apply to Party insiders from either Party, much as other laws never seem to apply to those with power. Insider Trading anyone?

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

Kerry did exactly that, but it will never matter.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I appreciate your particular view on this matter, but nuclear weapon material does not expire. The physics and weapon construction knowledge from the 1940's is perfectly valid today (for a Fission bomb). Coupled with their HEU program & stockpiles, this is a formidable risk. Their ballistic missile technology gives them a credible delivery method, further increasing the potential threat posed by Iran.

The scary part is that most adults can lift more weight than the amount of special nuclear material required to cause a nuclear detonation.

Israel's documents have been verified as authentic (confirmation from our own IC), and although some of the material pre-dated the JCPOA, possessing this type of material in conjunction with their agreement-permissible HEU gives them a short pathway to "the bomb" which the agreement specifically sought to prevent (as well as direct acquisition)

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

From where I stand he was conspiring. What other effort could be made to Iran to salvage a deal we were going to stop honoring?

My thoughts as well BFFT

I just can't see a legitimate reason he would be working against US objectives

a reply to: JBurns

Isn't that illegal?

As the Boston Globe reported last week, former secretary of state John Kerry has been engaged in secret talks with Iranian foreign minister Javad Zarif, as the two have “strategized” about how to preserve the nuclear deal the pair helped negotiate. If true — and Kerry has not only not denied this activity but has reportedly discussed it with members of Congress and others whom he hopes will assist him in thwarting the Trump administration’s apparent intent to either junk or revise the pact — this crosses an important line between legitimate advocacy and illegitimate efforts to sabotage the actions of a sitting U.S. government.

www.nationalreview.com...

Oh, yeah....now I remember....The Logan Act!

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799) is a United States federal law that criminalizes negotiation by unauthorized persons with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. The intent behind the Act is to prevent unauthorized negotiations from undermining the government's position.

Somehow I doubt this will make the evening news oO

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: JBurns
Someone needs to explain to Kerry and the world that he does not represent us in any official capacity! He has no authority and certainly has no clue into how the Trump administration will be handling these matters.

Can we do the same with private citizen Donald Trump Jr? He secretly met with Russians to discuss changes to the Magnitsky Act... at least, if you believe his own story.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JBurns

Kerry is still SoS and Obama is still president.


At least that is what the MSM and the DNC still believe.

OMG!! Your statements are dead on! After 2 years the MSM can't accept the fact that Barry isn't president anymore. Glad someone finally said it!

a reply to: JBurns

I feel sessions should send marshals to pick him on Logan act violations and racketeering and Rico violations if others were four d to put him up to it. The only think care should be discussing is which Heinz condiments Iran wants to import in bulk.

a reply to: KnightFire

DBCowboy has a way of making the most fitting statements in these threads

Wish I could come up with half of these posts!

Watching Maxine Waters the other night made this fact abundantly clear. Some people just don't know how to shut up and not speak out of turn. I guess she feels everyone needs to be respectful to her and hang on to every word and just let her interrupt as desired.

Sorry Maxy, but your brand of bullying smear-politics is over. Go make up some more lies about the Bernie folks at the NV convention though. You are doing wonders for Dem party unity.