Israel fires back overnight.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Alright, see I think you could have started that and people would have at least seen where you're coming from. Now I agree with you to an extent.

The only problem I have is after last night everyone has been wording it like Iran struck first, which isn't true.

And just to reiterate, I don't care much for either of them. I don't have a dog in the fight. I just don't want us involved or footing more of a bill than we already give Israel.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Yeah... This could evolve into a tit-for-tat argument very quickly huh?

You say Israel is surrounded then I say Iran is surrounded... You say supporting a terrorist/political group is illegal then I say the Iraq war was illegal.

Both sides are as guilty as hell.

I'm sure the Nazis were just defended the fatherland and the Serbs were a really good bunch of guys... Blah blah blah.

International law isn't important, the west are hypocrites and the Hague is just a tribunal service to smite down wannabes.

With that kind of attitude you might as well give a good old Roman salute to the likes of Pol Pot and light a candle in your window for the untimely death of Adolf Hitler.

Sieg Heil !

And yeah... I'm being sarcastic.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Yeah.

I'm an idiot but I'm not stupid. I know Israel won't give up an inch of the lands they've taken in conquest, doesn't mean I agree with it.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Yeah.

I'm an idiot but I'm not stupid. I know Israel won't give up an inch of the lands they've taken in conquest, doesn't mean I agree with it.

Understood....

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: nwtrucker

Yeah... This could evolve into a tit-for-tat argument very quickly huh?

You say Israel is surrounded then I say Iran is surrounded... You say supporting a terrorist/political group is illegal then I say the Iraq war was illegal.

Both sides are as guilty as hell.

I'm sure the Nazis were just defended the fatherland and the Serbs were a really good bunch of guys... Blah blah blah.

International law isn't important, the west are hypocrites and the Hague is just a tribunal service to smite down wannabes.

With that kind of attitude you might as well give a good old Roman salute to the likes of Pol Pot and light a candle in your window for the untimely death of Adolf Hitler.

Sieg Heil !

And yeah... I'm being sarcastic.

Yep, Assad and the Ayatollahs are perfect saints. To their own citizens and their neighbors.

a reply to: DerBeobachter

Because to keep the peace if someone throws a beer at you then you have to crack their knees with a baseball bat. Otherwise it just keeps up.

Lines from the movie Untouchables.

Jim Malone: You wanna get Capone? Here's how you get him. He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way.

Double post.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

The Golan Heights were taken in a time of Declared War .To the Victor Go the Spoils . It is Now Israeli Territory until Someone takes it from them . You Know

Illegally occupied land is illegally occupied land under international law.

The United States considers the Golan Heights to be Syrian territory held under Israeli occupation subject to negotiation and Israeli withdrawal. The United States considers the application of Israeli law to the Golan Heights to be a violation of international law, both the Fourth Geneva Convention's prohibition on the acquisition of territory by force and United Nations Security Council Resolution 242.
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

The Golan Heights were taken in a time of Declared War .To the Victor Go the Spoils . It is Now Israeli Territory until Someone takes it from them . You Know

Illegally occupied land is illegally occupied land under international law.

Its not that simple. You could argue that the occupation (annexation is a different matter) of the Golan Heights is legal because the territory was gained in a defensive war. If you actually look at the relevant statues, international law only prohibit occupation (and annexation) of territories gained in a war of aggression. As long as you act in self defense its (technically) legal to occupy your enemies territories.
This is the reason why there are actually many statues in international law regulating occupation of territories. If occupation is illegal under any circumstances anways, there would be no need for it since cant regulate illegal acts.

Also read UNSCR 242 - Israel is acutally required to continue to occupy the territories gained in 67 until some sort of understanding is reached through negotiations. Its is certainly not required to leave immediately or anything of the sort. And while the resolution suggests (!) the eventual withdrawal of Israeli armed forces its only supposed to happen in context of a general agreement between the beligerent states that also ensures secure borders for Israel.
Its also entirely possible and perfectly legal that Syria will eventually cede to Golan Heights to Israel in exchange for peace. In any event, legally speaking its perfectly fine for the the current situation to continue in perpetuity.

And as possesion is9/10s of the law anyway it likley will.

a reply to: mightmight

Golan is essential to defending Israel, the Hula plain below is impossible to defend if the Israeli air force is taken out in a Yom Kippur style surprise attack. The tanks will just roll to Tel Aviv. Golan is now an essential part of Israel, even more so with what is unfolding the other side of the border. Any idea of the military in Israel allowing the Golan to pass into Arab hands for the next two generations is unimaginable.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: mightmight

Golan is essential to defending Israel, the Hula plain below is impossible to defend if the Israeli air force is taken out in a Yom Kippur style surprise attack. The tanks will just roll to Tel Aviv. Golan is now an essential part of Israel, even more so with what is unfolding the other side of the border. Any idea of the military in Israel allowing the Golan to pass into Arab hands for the next two generations is unimaginable.

While i agree with that viewpoint, many Israeli government including Netanyahu at one point have shown a perplexing flexiblity on the issue. The Heights were put on the negotiating table a couple of times in the past decades and it looked like Israel was willing to give them up in exchange for peace and some serious US Military hardware. Whether or not those negotiations were always conducted in good faith is a differen question.

Anyway, today the idea of an Israeli withdrawl from the Golan is indeed a pipedream. Been dead since at Hezbollah Setting up shop in southern Lebanon after the Israeli withdrawl from there really. Netanyahu should actually try to raise the annexation issue with Trump again. He tried it with Obama at the height of the Syrian civil war ('Syria falls apart anyway gimme a part of it') but Obama obviously shot him down. A US statement of the issue could go along way to cement Israeli rule on the Golan for decades to come.

a reply to: mightmight

And as possesion is9/10s of the law anyway it likley will.

As we've seen over the decades International law doesn't apply to Israel so I don't doubt it will continue to occupy the land along with that they've possessed in the Palestinian territories and that which they will posses in the future.

Legally possession isn't nine-tenths of the law.

a reply to: mightmight

Yes that's true. Many times Israeli leaders have been willing to cede Golan to Syria for a genuine peace, just like they left occupied Egyptian land for a genuine peace. Most Israeli's would not care if it went today assuming Syria was a state willing to make peace with Israel and more importantly was at peace with itself. But who in the right mind would cede that land today? Israel has very real enemies right on their northern borders they will massacre Israel's population if given the chance, too much hatred out there now for at leats a generatin or two. Propaganda has brainwashed the Hezbollah etc to despise Israel, given half a chance they would over run Israel and then it's game over for the Zion experiment. I also genuinely believe peace is getting harder to achieve from an Israeli perspective too. The old Israeli who thought there might be acceptance of their state one day is dying off, the young in Israel are much different, they know the world hates them at least the world surrounding them. They know they stole that land as settlers. They seen what happened to the settlers in South Africa even after 400 years and how they went for peace and are now really feeling the wrath of not keeping up the fight as they get massacred at every opportunity. Israeli's don't want to go down that route, they need to stay strong and keeping the Golan is an essential component to maintaining a defendable peace in the north.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Did I not say both sides are guilty???

a reply to: nwtrucker

The day after scuttling the nuke deal tie into this with Bibi and his misleading power points aimed at an audience of one, days before that.
Yes we are being dragged into a war by the Israelis and the House of Saud.

Easy prediction, no crystal balls needed, regime change will take place ,insurgents will flood the region this time the crazy assed apocalyptic Shia extremist with their own end time narrative, the same as Christian end time folks with pretty much the same goal, don't see this ending well if at all.

originally posted by: Arnie123

The isrealis are tough, infact, I believe they are much tougher then most militaries.

So tough they get the USA to fight for them

originally posted by: nightbringr


Iran has weekly rallies where the clergy encourage chants of, "Death to Israel, Death to USA!". Is this even sane behavior? Can you imagine if that was attempted here, they would be shut down and labeled as insane hatemongers, and rightfully so.

No you just have politicians chanting "bomb bomb bomb Iran".........

And they likely see Americans salivating for the chance to bomb or invade them.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Zanti Misfit

The Golan Heights were taken in a time of Declared War .To the Victor Go the Spoils . It is Now Israeli Territory until Someone takes it from them . You Know

Illegally occupied land is illegally occupied land under international law.

The United States considers the Golan Heights to be Syrian territory held under Israeli occupation subject to negotiation and Israeli withdrawal. The United States considers the application of Israeli law to the Golan Heights to be a violation of international law, both the Fourth Geneva Convention's prohibition on the acquisition of territory by force and United Nations Security Council Resolution 242.
en.wikipedia.org...

Who cares? I have no sympathy for a country that attacks another, loses, then complains they lost land.

originally posted by: Notmyfinalform

originally posted by: nightbringr


Iran has weekly rallies where the clergy encourage chants of, "Death to Israel, Death to USA!". Is this even sane behavior? Can you imagine if that was attempted here, they would be shut down and labeled as insane hatemongers, and rightfully so.

No you just have politicians chanting "bomb bomb bomb Iran".........

And they likely see Americans salivating for the chance to bomb or invade them.

Show us any politician chanting "bomb, bomb, bomb."

a reply to: nwtrucker



You mean like this Senator and former Republican Presidential nominee?