The issue with atheism

a reply to: randyvs

Subjective evidence is evidence you can't evaluate, it's just feelings at the end of the day.
Or do you got a special kind of subjective evidence I never heard of?

a reply to: noonebutme

And I still disagree. How was that even argument?

a reply to: randyvs

Because it doesn't matter what I or anyone else says. You believe in a God of some sort. I do not. You claim to have special, secret divine knowledge that I do not.

I look at probability. What are the chances that is true? It has never been true in human history and I highly suspect it is not true of you now.

I could go into the long diatribe about how if such a being existed, he's the most disgusting, abhorrent thing to have ever existed, based on the REAL evidence of human history. But that wouldn't convince you, because you believe... well, on faith. I do not.

Or are you saying you don't love you mum? O_o

a reply to: Peeple

I guess I do. It's called experience and this
is usually greeted by ridicule and hate that
should be considered childish and beneath
the scientific intellect. But it sure as hell isn't.

a reply to: noonebutme

Now you've gone too far for my taste too. "It has never been true in human history..." is also a statemrnt you can't make with all certainty, because you only got a very selective small window into documentation of the time and haven't been present (even if you were you don't remember in this life) since always.

And that being is maybe like a gardener who let's thousands of seeds blossom to pick than only a few for continuation of his breeding project, just as possible example.

And I hate my mom. Lots of things are possible we can't even imagine, is what I want to say with that.

a reply to: randyvs

Because your experience and my experience become truth

where they overlap. There's a lot of empty meaningless space left which is simply your brain filling in blanks which are part of your experience but not truth.

a reply to: noonebutme

Simply put you take a supreme being from
the equasion. And you take away the only
real existential explanation.

originally posted by: Peeple
Now you've gone too far for my taste too. "It has never been true in human history..." is also a statemrnt you can't make with all certainty, because you only got a very selective small window into documentation of the time and haven't been present (even if you were you don't remember in this life) since always.

Ok, I'm *almost certain*, "it has never been true in human history.."

But, let's be honest. It hasn't. For the sake of being 'open and fair', I'll cope to your point. But... it's hasnt

a reply to: noonebutme

It has. Might be a matter of definition, but how else have become the freak monkeys we are now?

originally posted by: Peeple
"It has never been true in human history..." is also a statemrnt you can't make with all certainty, because you only got a very selective small window into documentation of the time and haven't been present

I'm with you on that, if I was down the beach and some guy walked on the waves turning donuts into fried battered cod and chips/fries, then Slush Puppies into high strength cocktails I'd probably be convinced.
Pity the alleged gods seemed to give up with public miracles like thousands of years ago.
Crap god if you asked me, I'd pull off some worldwide TV trending on social media miracle if I was a god these days, I'd recruit billions of followers pretty quick.

a reply to: randyvs

So, are you saying there is nothing magical or mystical about the universe *without* the assumption in a supreme being? That there are no existential questions to be asked if God isn't a variable ?

Why does a supreme being have to be in the equation? If you're using God or a supreme being as your benchmark or measure of what we do not understand, or what gives meaning and 'specialness' to the universe, then your specialness and meaning of everything would, and is, slowly receding as we gain more and more insight into the universe around us.

Or did I miss the point? Not sure I understood your reply.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Woodcarver

I don’t think i am a god. All i have ever asked is that one of the religious people explain their beliefs in a way that makes sense. Most religios just turn away in frustration.

"All you've ever asked" c' mon Carver. I've
explained how what I believe makes way more
sense than what you don't believe ad nauseam.
Stop lying and get a life.

You have never explained anything. All you do is assert that you believe things.

a reply to: Peeple

Uhm.. evolution? A proven biological process we have piles of evidence for..?

And if you look on the tin of evolution, it's 100% God-free!

a reply to: Peeple

I understand your point but it doesn't phase
the truth in my minds eye.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: noonebutme

Simply put you take a supreme being from
the equasion. And you take away the only
real existential explanation.

You seem to forget that chemistry and other natural events explain things quite well. Hence your computer and all of the medical advances we all take advantage of.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Peeple

I understand your point but it doesn't phase
the truth in my minds eye.

The truth in your minds eye? Don’t you mean your opinion?

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm with you on that, if I was down the beach and some guy walked on the waves turning donuts into fried battered cod and chips/fries, then Slush Puppies into high strength cocktails I'd probably be convinced.

Yeh, me too!

And your operative conjunction, *if* sums it up!

IF I saw a guy in a blue suit and red cape flying in the sky I'd believe in Superman.
IF I saw hippie in sandals and dodgy beard walking on water, I'd believe in the supernatural. Or superheroes.. whichever..
IF I saw a guy in a white beard and red suit come down the chimney with presents I'd believe in Father Christmas.

Operative word: if.

a reply to: noonebutme

Really? Since when? Our cultural/social/spiritual/consciousness evolution is full of god. There was a time when the wind in the trees was god, moon and the sun and the stars were god... There was quite the evolution going on up to you and your modern understanding of science.

a reply to: Woodcarver

You have never explained anything. All you do is assert that you believe things.

Don't play at words like a child. I just explained
again for the whole world to read.

originally posted by: Peeple
Really? Since when? Our cultural/social/spiritual/consciousness evolution is full of god. There was a time when the wind in the trees was god, moon and the sun and the stars were god... There was quite the evolution going on up to you and your modern understanding of science.

No, I was talking evolution of the human species, in reference to your incomprehension of how we came to be, not the non-biological definition of "the gradual development of something" -- in your reference above: human understanding.

I don't deny that people we ill educated and ill informed of the world around them and religion was the first attempt at making sense of reality. I completely agree.

But as we became smarter, equipped ourselves with tools and instruments to further study and analyse our world, we made incredible discoveries and advances. That was completely an 'evolution' in our awareness and intelligence.

Not the same as the biological process of evolution, where the human species came to be over millions of years of mutation.