The issue with atheism

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
amazing how for some reality is falling apart

I know, right?

originally posted by: noonebutme
Debunked as bunk: www.metabunk.org...

A lot of broken links, but one if them link back to ATS old thread. I'm dishearten to read that many pages. I assume you are not going to make it easy for me?

originally posted by: noonebutme
How? How does having a soul prove life doesn't spontaneously happen?

Soul connected to consciousness of being in existence as "You" and "I". It is part of existence that can't be manufactured physically even if you have neurological wires all over the brain. It's a signal we detect in form of microwave pattern. If you loose it, you're clinical dead.

originally posted by: noonebutme
This is what people are arguing about life. You don't look at a human and say, "See?? It's impossible to get to that from nothing or inorganic components!" And sure.. from a single atom to a full human it is impossible. But you need to UNDERSTAND the process that took billions of years to get here.

I argue Earth don't have that much time to evolve most primitive single cell into complex trillion multi-block cells human. You don't even know who this common ape-human ancestors and their ancestors to begin with, and how many thousands changes it already took.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
I argue Earth don't have that much time to evolve most primitive single cell into complex trillion multi-block cells human.

You can argue that, yet here we are, some 3.x billions years later. And as I said previously, it's a long gradual process of building blocks. Evolution isn't sentient; it doesn't mutate because an organism 'wants' to fly.

You don't even know who this common human ancestor to begin with, and how many thousands changes it already took.

Exactly. How many times since the Earth cooled did the building blocks of life come together, only to fail and fall apart because the conditions just didn't match? No idea. But science is investigating and trying to figure it out. It can admit it doesn't know.

What it doesn't do, is say, Well we don't know, so it must be God.

a reply to: noonebutme

I'm not being stupid at all esse. I asked for observable evidence that life can come from
some place other than life in a hostile
environment?

And you give me a lab experimemt. That
claims to duplicate earths environment at
what time? How many billions of years ago
would that have to be? For this just to happen
somewhere on a molten piece of rock flying
away from a big bang.

You don't see how impossible all this sounds
and you call me stupid?

The impossibilities of it all should tell you
there has to be a God.

a reply to: randyvs

Life only comes from life and I
don't have to point to lab experiment
to prove it.

What it doesn't do, is say, Well we don't know, so it must be God. 

And that gives you room to criticize others?
And call people stupid?
Wow you're somethin else.

originally posted by: noonebutme
You can argue that, yet here we are, some 3.x billions years later. And as I said previously, it's a long gradual process of building blocks. Evolution isn't sentient; it doesn't mutate because an organism 'wants' to fly.

Sentient or not, each time evolution occurs, even minor, it take million of years. And you believe 3.x billions years is suffient for single atom to transform into organic living matter and evolve into human being, against all environmental odds?

You do have some kind of faith.

a reply to: EasternShadow

You do have some kind of faith.

No way because atheism.

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: noonebutme
You can argue that, yet here we are, some 3.x billions years later. And as I said previously, it's a long gradual process of building blocks. Evolution isn't sentient; it doesn't mutate because an organism 'wants' to fly.

Sentient or not, each time evolution occurs, even minor, it take million of years. And you believe 3.x billions years is suffient for single atom to transform into organic living matter and evolve into human being, against all environmental odds?

You do have some kind of faith.

Evolution happens with every new generation of a species on a very very very small scale. It is with the compounding of those changes over many many generations that result in significant changes of diversity. Also, this isn't "faith". Evolution has been proven in a lab. Saying otherwise is just willful ignorance.

Also, how is it against environmental odds for humans to evolve? It clearly happened so the odds aren't 0. Plus the universe is SUPER large and time scales are super long. That's a lot of dice rolls for this to happen. Humans have only existed less than 1% of the total time life has been on the planet too.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Evolution happens with every new generation of a species on a very very very small scale. It is with the compounding of those changes over many many generations that result in significant changes of diversity. Also, this isn't "faith". Evolution has been proven in a lab. Saying otherwise is just willful ignorance.

Also, how is it against environmental odds for humans to evolve? It clearly happened so the odds aren't 0. Plus the universe is SUPER large and time scales are super long. That's a lot of dice rolls for this to happen. Humans have only existed less than 1% of the total time life has been on the planet too.

I don't care with your mechanism. I've read it so many times. You make the claim it takes only 3.x billion years for single atom to evolve into living human being.

Now prove it scientifically.

originally posted by: randyvs
What it doesn't do, is say, Well we don't know, so it must be God. 
And that gives you room to criticize others?

Yes. For 2 reasons.

First, you, the believer in God, choose to attribute all things you don't know or understand to the divine, or the 'mystery of God'. If we can't explain it, if we don't understand it, it must be God's doing. What a sad way to live your life, running from the thunder and lightning. No thanks.

Secondly, you're shooting yourself in the foot. As we learn and progress our knowledge, we discover more. More unknown things become known. And that will never cease so long as mankind exists. We will always be progressing our knowledge. (well, some of us will!) And for you, the believer in God where all unknown things come from, that 'mystery of God' is an ever receding blanket. As we learn and understand the unknown, your God dies

Wow you're somethin else.

Thanks man

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Evolution happens with every new generation of a species on a very very very small scale. It is with the compounding of those changes over many many generations that result in significant changes of diversity. Also, this isn't "faith". Evolution has been proven in a lab. Saying otherwise is just willful ignorance.

Also, how is it against environmental odds for humans to evolve? It clearly happened so the odds aren't 0. Plus the universe is SUPER large and time scales are super long. That's a lot of dice rolls for this to happen. Humans have only existed less than 1% of the total time life has been on the planet too.

I don't care with your mechanism. I've read it so many times. You make the claim it takes only 3.x billion years for single atom to evolve into living human being.

Actually, you just made that claim. I never said that or claimed that.

Now prove it scientifically.

This thread isn't about evolution and proving it. It's about atheism. Plus I wager you won't listen to or read anything I post regardless and feel you've already made up your mind on this and closed it to the idea that evolution is true. So I'm not going to waste my time by derailing the thread further on the matter. If you truly cared to educate yourself then you can easily go read up on this stuff on your own time. I imagine you know how Google works and don't need me to use it for you.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
You make the claim it takes only 3.x billion years for single atom to evolve into living human being.

Krazysh0t didn't, I did. And I didnt claim an atom evolves into a living being. I said, or tried to imply, that atoms for elements, those elements can interact and become compounds, those compounds can interact to create organic compounds.

And, provided those conditions and circumstances are correct, they can form some of the basic building blocks of life, like amino acids.

Now prove it scientifically.

I already did -- I pointed you to a really good article about scientists who replicated this in the lab and documented it.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
You make the claim it takes only 3.x billion years for single atom to evolve into living human being.

Krazysh0t didn't, I did. And I didnt claim an atom evolves into a living being. I said, or tried to imply, that atoms for elements, those elements can interact and become compounds, those compounds can interact to create organic compounds.

And, provided those conditions and circumstances are correct, they can form some of the basic building blocks of life, like amino acids.

Now prove it scientifically.

I already did -- I pointed you to a really good article about scientists who replicated this in the lab and documented it.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This thread isn't about evolution and proving it. It's about atheism.

I have no intention to bring in evolution. My previous post was about Life and consciousness as evidence of god.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Plus I wager you won't listen to or read anything I post regardless and feel you've already made up your mind on this and closed it to the idea that evolution is true.

Evolution is irrelevant to the question of life and consciousness.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
So I'm not going to waste my time by derailing the thread further on the matter. If you truly cared to educate yourself then you can easily go read up on this stuff on your own time. I imagine you know how Google works and don't need me to use it for you.

I did. That is why I don't believe it took 3.x billion years to develop an atom into multi-trillion complex cell blocks human.

If you don't make such claim, then I advise you to stay out from this.

originally posted by: noonebutme
I already did -- I pointed you to a really good article about scientists who replicated this in the lab and documented it.

I know. I've read it. Amino Acid, even RNA can can be duplicated. They are the building blocks of life, I agree. I have yet to see this building blocks create most basic primitive live cell. ( assuming this primitive cell is the one responsible for human life )

Having created a brick doesn't mean you can create correct building.

Double bubbled!

a reply to: noonebutme

Yes. For 2 reasons. 

First, you, the believer in God, choose to attribute all things you don't know or understand to the divine, or the 'mystery of God'. If we can't explain it, if we don't understand it, it must be God's doing. What a sad way to live your life, running from the thunder and lightning. No thanks. 

The meaning of God is that all things are
attributed to him. I have no choice in the
matter.

No need for thanks you can go on believing
what ever men tell you. And critcize me all
you want for believing in someone higher.
But you'll never convince me thar man is
the sharpest tool in the shed.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
I have no intention to bring in evolution. My previous post was about Life and consciousness as evidence of god.

You mentioned it so you brought it up.

Evolution is irrelevant to the question of life and consciousness.

Consciousness evolved just like any other aspect of life, so no evolution isn't irrelevant to consciousness. Life was likely started through abiogenesis but how it changed over time since then is what evolution is.

I did. That is why I don't believe it took 3.x billion years to develop an atom into multi-trillion complex cell blocks human.

If you don't make such claim, then I advise you to stay out from this.

But evolution doesn't even make that claim. Atoms developing is part of fusion in stars. Then the creation of heavier atoms is created through star supernovas. Atoms turning into molecules is chemistry. Next molecules turning into proteins and other basic building blocks of life is abiogensis. Finally, evolution took over from there. You literally just sandwiched several different scientific processes into one to describe evolution. You are wrong and it shows that you didn't adequately research the topic to even understand it properly let alone research it with an open mind to see if it is true or not.

originally posted by: randyvs
But you'll never convince me thar man is the sharpest tool in the shed.

Dude, I've never tried to imply man is the sharpest tool in the shed. We have so much to learn, always and forever.

I'm only saying that we're more intelligent than something that never existed in the first place.

I've presented several posts with reasons why and evidence. I still haven't seen anything from your camp demonstrating the evidence of a God or supreme being, or that it is responsible for life in general. Only your opinion. Whereas we have empirical evidence to show that life can in fact come from inorganic material under the right conditions.

a reply to: noonebutme

Under the right conditions?
The conditions made up from an
assumption. And performed in
a lab by scientists. But Jesus Christ
isn''t proof of anything because you just
know better?

How do you ignore the fact we
don't see molecules producing amino
acids right now somewhere under the
right conditions?