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Doesn’t the Bible specifically condemn prophecy and such????

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posted on May, 9 2018 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: ElGoobero
if a Christian, especially a leader/pastor, says 'God told me XXX is going to happen' and it doesn't, he's false and not to be believed or listened to...

Many times a prophecy is going to be conditional.

Remember Nineveh, this is especially relevant in the US currently...


you are correct. some prophecies are if/then warnings.

chr0naut, you are correct in defining 'prophecy'. the term is better understood as 'revealing', not necessarily revealing the future. I have observed pastors pray over people and revealing, under the Spirit, what that person's issues are, or what their relevant past was.




posted on May, 9 2018 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: ElGoobero

I look at them more as signs and wonders...

Prophecy is proof that God is who He says He is and not who WE think he is.

God always gives proof before He expects faith and He always endorses what he does through signs and wonders.


God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will ~ Hebrews 2:4


He also never sends judgment without first revealing to his prophets what he plans to do:


"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." ~ Amos 3:7


Throughout recorded history, God has always sent prophets to “restore” a knowledge of the gospel back to the earth. Amos also said that “People will stagger from sea to sea and wander from north to east, searching for the word of the Lord, but they will not find it.” (Amos 8:11-12) Pretty much…you could search the entire earth for the gospel of God and no matter how hard you search…if there is no prophet on the earth…you won’t find it. No one ever just “figured out” the will of God without it being reveled to them first through prophets.

So a basic fact exists. You cannot accept Christ without first accepting His prophets. It’s a logical impossibility. We would have no clue who Christ is without the teachings of the prophets. It would be crazy to say that we accept and believe in Christ while simultaneously rejecting the witness of John the Baptist.

This pattern of God sending prophets to His children has been going on for thousands of years. It started with Adam. He was rejected. He sent Noah, and Abraham, and Moses. They were rejected. Prophets were sent to people in the American continent. Rejected. Does this sound crazy? It’s scriptural. So when someone tells you that there’s no need for prophets in our day…introduce them to a few whose fruits are worthy of careful consideration.

www.gregtrimble.com...



posted on May, 9 2018 @ 05:17 PM
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originally posted by: Sump3
a reply to: Woodcarver

Now you are just assuming on my behalf, nitpicking my words and extrapolating your belief on me.

I have given you my response which I have no need to expand on, it's all there. If you wish to feel it and live it for yourself, ask for repentance, get born again and ask for the Holy Spirit in to your life.
Sorry to put you on the spot, it’s just that you were implying that you knew what you were talking about, and then you didn’t.



posted on May, 9 2018 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

I forgive you if you feel that way. You've done me no wrong.

I can't provide you physical evidence for God.

I know for myself. If you want to know it for yourself you need only read my previous response.

I have seen, skimming through threads over the years how you act towards those with faith on these boards. I have given you all I will give you.

God bless you.



posted on May, 9 2018 @ 11:06 PM
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It seems to me that spiritual people are the first to turn away from someone when asked for help. I just asked you to explain what you mean. It seems to me, that you would want to share this thing, but everyone just snubs the disbeliever. If what you have is spirit, i’ll have none of it.



posted on May, 9 2018 @ 11:18 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
It seems to me that spiritual people are the first to turn away from someone when asked for help. I just asked you to explain what you mean. It seems to me, that you would want to share this thing, but everyone just snubs the disbeliever. If what you have is spirit, i’ll have none of it.


There is a saying in the bible, a little harsh but relevant
Do not cast your pearls before swine
In other words, if a person is not going to accept what a Christian has to say, don't say anything to them
If you think about the statement, it's a good one. It means you don't have to listen to crazy Christians harping on and on
It's funny Woody, you are asking someone to preach at you then condemn people preaching, you are a hypocrite

Have you ever sat down and thought about why you go on and on like you do, really considered your motivation



posted on May, 10 2018 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Woodcarver
It seems to me that spiritual people are the first to turn away from someone when asked for help. I just asked you to explain what you mean. It seems to me, that you would want to share this thing, but everyone just snubs the disbeliever. If what you have is spirit, i’ll have none of it.


There is a saying in the bible, a little harsh but relevant
Do not cast your pearls before swine
In other words, if a person is not going to accept what a Christian has to say, don't say anything to them
If you think about the statement, it's a good one. It means you don't have to listen to crazy Christians harping on and on
It's funny Woody, you are asking someone to preach at you then condemn people preaching, you are a hypocrite

Have you ever sat down and thought about why you go on and on like you do, really considered your motivation

Always with the insults.

I have questions like everybody else, maybe one day, someone will care enough about their religious beliefs, to try and understand them.
edit on 10-5-2018 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2018 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

a reply to: Raggedyman

Yes Raggedyman that was what I was thinking. I am told by scripture not to exert bullets that end up being blanks at those who have rejected the teachings over and over. It's useless and a waste of time to try and penetrate a "heart of stone".

Woodcarver, I am not going to go into detail on my personal life here on these boards where anyone can access it. These experiences were for me and I disclose them with those close to me and to my brethren whom I know.

Your last sentence also made it very clear that I will not commune more with you at this time. You appear to have made your stance very clear, though granted, I don't know the first thing about you except what I've read.

Peace be with you and God bless.



posted on May, 10 2018 @ 08:59 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver
No you don't



posted on May, 10 2018 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Woodcarver
No you don't



Lol. This is exactly what i am talking about.



posted on May, 10 2018 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: Sump3

They are not bullets, Jesus never used aggression
Just love bro

Don't waste love, give it
edit on 10-5-2018 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2018 @ 04:39 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

It was a metaphor.

God bless.



posted on May, 10 2018 @ 05:06 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: chr0naut




Or it is saying that all men die
He is comparing their death to men ..."But ye shall die like men," Someone from Boston is called a Bostonian .Someone from the unseen realm is a Elohim .


The psalmist (Asaph) is referring to men, who will all die like men. He is talking about the universality of human mortality, even if we are called "gods". The theme of the Psalm is that everything other than the one true God is subject to Him, the false gods because they are nothing and even men called gods because they are, in reality, just mortals.

Perhaps if you used a better translation than the KJV, it would be clearer?



posted on May, 12 2018 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut

ESV ...

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satanb also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8And the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
KJV+

Satan Allowed to Test Job Job 1:6 Now there wasH1961 a dayH3117 when the sonsH1121 of GodH430 cameH935 to present themselvesH3320 beforeH5921 the LORD,H3068 and SatanH7854 cameH935 alsoH1571 amongH8432 them. Job 1:7 And the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Satan,H7854 WhenceH4480 H370 comestH935 thou? Then SatanH7854 answeredH6030 (H853) the LORD,H3068 and said,H559 From going to and froH4480 H7751 in the earth,H776 and from walking up and downH4480 H1980 in it. Job 1:8 And the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Satan,H7854 Hast thou consideredH7760 H3820 H5921 my servantH5650 Job,H347 thatH3588 there is noneH369 like himH3644 in the earth,H776 a perfectH8535 and an uprightH3477 man,H376 one that fearethH3373 God,H430 and eschewethH5493 evil?H4480 H7451 Job 1:9 Then SatanH7854 answeredH6030 (H853) the LORD,H3068 and said,H559 Doth JobH347 fearH3372 GodH430 for nought?H2600 Job 1:10 Hast notH3808 thouH859 made an hedgeH7753 aboutH1157 him, and aboutH1157 his house,H1004 and aboutH1157 allH3605 thatH834 he hath on every side?H4480 H5439 thou hast blessedH1288 the workH4639 of his hands,H3027 and his substanceH4735 is increasedH6555 in the land.H776 Job 1:11 ButH199 put forthH7971 thine handH3027 now,H4994 and touchH5060 allH3605 thatH834 he hath, andH518 he will curseH1288 thee toH5921 thy face.H6440 Job 1:12 And the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Satan,H7854 Behold,H2009 allH3605 thatH834 he hath is in thy power;H3027 onlyH7535 uponH413 himself put not forthH408 H7971 thine hand.H3027 So SatanH7854 went forthH3318 fromH4480 H5973 the presenceH6440 of the LORD.H3068
Scholars see this scene as happening in Heaven .

a. Now there was a day: This reveals the scene in heaven; unseen to Job and others on earth, but absolutely real nonetheless. The story of Job can really only be properly understood by taking into account what happened in heaven, and by having more than an earthly perspective. i. “Without this prologue the Job of the dialogues and monologues might justly be considered a man with an insufferable self-righteousness, and the reader would be left without a heavenly perspective.” (Smick) b. When the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD: The phrase sons of God is used in the Old Testament to describe angelic beings (Gen_6:1-4 and Job_38:7). Among this group of angelic beings, Satan also came among them.
Scholar's have well documented "The Divine Council" settings in scripture . And to top off it off God has a chat with Job and says ...ESV "The LORD Answers Job

1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

2“Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
3Dress for actiona like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.

4“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy? "
edit on 12-5-2018 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)
ETA

The concept of a divine assembly (or council) is attested in the archaic Sumerian, Akkadian, Old Babylonian, Ancient Egyptian, Babylonian, Caananite, Israelite, Celtic, Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman and Nordic pantheons. Ancient Egyptian literature reveals the existence of a "synod of the gods". Some of our most complete descriptions of the activities of the divine assembly are found in the literature from Mesopotamia. Their assembly of the gods, headed by the high god Anu, would meet to address various concerns.[1] The term used in Sumerian to describe this concept was Ukkin, and in later Akkadian and Aramaic was puhru.[2]
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 12-5-2018 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2018 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: chr0naut

ESV ...

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satanb also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8And the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
KJV+

Satan Allowed to Test Job Job 1:6 Now there wasH1961 a dayH3117 when the sonsH1121 of GodH430 cameH935 to present themselvesH3320 beforeH5921 the LORD,H3068 and SatanH7854 cameH935 alsoH1571 amongH8432 them. Job 1:7 And the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Satan,H7854 WhenceH4480 H370 comestH935 thou? Then SatanH7854 answeredH6030 (H853) the LORD,H3068 and said,H559 From going to and froH4480 H7751 in the earth,H776 and from walking up and downH4480 H1980 in it. Job 1:8 And the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Satan,H7854 Hast thou consideredH7760 H3820 H5921 my servantH5650 Job,H347 thatH3588 there is noneH369 like himH3644 in the earth,H776 a perfectH8535 and an uprightH3477 man,H376 one that fearethH3373 God,H430 and eschewethH5493 evil?H4480 H7451 Job 1:9 Then SatanH7854 answeredH6030 (H853) the LORD,H3068 and said,H559 Doth JobH347 fearH3372 GodH430 for nought?H2600 Job 1:10 Hast notH3808 thouH859 made an hedgeH7753 aboutH1157 him, and aboutH1157 his house,H1004 and aboutH1157 allH3605 thatH834 he hath on every side?H4480 H5439 thou hast blessedH1288 the workH4639 of his hands,H3027 and his substanceH4735 is increasedH6555 in the land.H776 Job 1:11 ButH199 put forthH7971 thine handH3027 now,H4994 and touchH5060 allH3605 thatH834 he hath, andH518 he will curseH1288 thee toH5921 thy face.H6440 Job 1:12 And the LORDH3068 saidH559 untoH413 Satan,H7854 Behold,H2009 allH3605 thatH834 he hath is in thy power;H3027 onlyH7535 uponH413 himself put not forthH408 H7971 thine hand.H3027 So SatanH7854 went forthH3318 fromH4480 H5973 the presenceH6440 of the LORD.H3068
Scholars see this scene as happening in Heaven .

a. Now there was a day: This reveals the scene in heaven; unseen to Job and others on earth, but absolutely real nonetheless. The story of Job can really only be properly understood by taking into account what happened in heaven, and by having more than an earthly perspective. i. “Without this prologue the Job of the dialogues and monologues might justly be considered a man with an insufferable self-righteousness, and the reader would be left without a heavenly perspective.” (Smick) b. When the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD: The phrase sons of God is used in the Old Testament to describe angelic beings (Gen_6:1-4 and Job_38:7). Among this group of angelic beings, Satan also came among them.
Scholar's have well documented "The Divine Council" settings in scripture . And to top off it off God has a chat with Job and says ...ESV "The LORD Answers Job

1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

2“Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
3Dress for actiona like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.

4“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy? " ETA

The concept of a divine assembly (or council) is attested in the archaic Sumerian, Akkadian, Old Babylonian, Ancient Egyptian, Babylonian, Caananite, Israelite, Celtic, Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman and Nordic pantheons. Ancient Egyptian literature reveals the existence of a "synod of the gods". Some of our most complete descriptions of the activities of the divine assembly are found in the literature from Mesopotamia. Their assembly of the gods, headed by the high god Anu, would meet to address various concerns.[1] The term used in Sumerian to describe this concept was Ukkin, and in later Akkadian and Aramaic was puhru.[2]
en.wikipedia.org...


The "sons of God" in these verses are in all cases are taken to be angels, that is, created spiritual beings, not gods or demigods.

To give some perspective on things, one of the things Satan holds against mankind is that he is aware that; while the angels are elevated above man at the current time, there will come a time when mankind will ascend above the angels in the heavenly order.

To believe that there is some council of gods, of which YHWH is a peer, is a complete ignorance of understanding of monotheism, which is the primary theological thesis of the Bible.

The implication that Jewish monotheism arose from Caananite polytheism is also unfounded and based upon the assumption that the Bible is a fiction built up over time. Right from the earliest writings (most likely the Book of Job) the concepts of monotheism and divine revelation argue against such accrual.

The very structure of Genesis suggests observer histories written on clay tablets (carrying limited text on each tablet due to physical fragility if the tablet became too large and the requirement of repetition of terminal and initial verses around an attribution to allow sequence to be established between tablets).

The whole 'documentary hypothesis' and Babylonian exilic origin of the Biblical canon was soundly debunked 100 years ago with the discovery of pre-exilic archeological finds such as coins, architecture and inscriptions.

edit on 12/5/2018 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2018 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut




To give some perspective on things, one of the things Satan holds against mankind is that he is aware that; while the angels are elevated above man at the current time, there will come a time when mankind will ascend above the angels in the heavenly order.
This is true but it is seen or should be understood as we humans will replace those fallen ones in Gods Council . Is Satan a Angle ? Are all Angel's good guys ? Are all heavenly beings messengers (angels) of God ?



posted on May, 18 2018 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: chr0naut




To give some perspective on things, one of the things Satan holds against mankind is that he is aware that; while the angels are elevated above man at the current time, there will come a time when mankind will ascend above the angels in the heavenly order.
This is true but it is seen or should be understood as we humans will replace those fallen ones in Gods Council . Is Satan a Angle ? Are all Angel's good guys ? Are all heavenly beings messengers (angels) of God ?


Not all angels are the 'good guys'. One third of the angels fell and followed Satan. Also, since it is possible for angels to rebel, they must have free will. Rationally, this means that from time to time, it is likely that angels will make wrong choices. This means that they aren't good, just because they are angels (no-one is good but God).

Yes, Satan is an angel and there are hierarchies among the angels, fallen and unfallen. This probably means that there are 'governing bodies' within that 'org chart'. One instance of this is the suggestion that there were appointed angels who were the spiritual leaders of each of the human nations (the 70 nations are itemized in the "table of nations" in Genesis 10). There is further reference to this idea of 'an angel over each nation' mentioned in Deuteronomy 32 (which is sometimes called "the Song of Moses").

Most of Heiser's support verses for the idea of a single "divine council" is from the Psalms, i.e: they are song lyrics (as is the above Deuteronomy 32).

Songs strongly use metaphor and figures of speech. As such, a reference to a cultural paradigm, like some divine reflection of human political rule, would be possible but does not mean that there is actually "a divine council". In all cases in the Psalms, God presides over such councils and is supreme. The supremacy of God over everything is the point of those passages from the Psalms. It clearly isn't intended as a technical document of political structure.



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