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In Depth Look why Papadopuolos story starting Trump investigation is terrible

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posted on May, 7 2018 @ 12:22 PM
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a reply to: Grambler


At initial appearance, it seems Mifsud is a Russian sympathizing professor who has connections to the Kremlin. This would make his relationship with GP and his attempts to connect him with Russians seem more nefarious.

However, there is more than meets the eye.

It turns out that Mifsud’s connections to Russia are rather vague and not as apparent as the NYT article would appear to suggest. However, his ties to the Italian Intel community (and by proxy the CIA) are actually much more obvious yet seem to not be reported on nearly as much.


Your argument seems to be:

"Misfud's ties to Russia are vague but here's an even more vague tie to Clinton!"

Are you saying that in March of 2016, Misfud was working as a Clinton operative, setting up George Papadopoulos so that he would later have a conversation with an Australian diplomat who would then wait a few months to share information with the US about the conversation so that the FBI could open an investigation, so that months later they could obtain a FISA warrant for an ex-campaign staffer which yielded nothing?

It's strange that with all this 2000-dimension chess the Clinton's play and the implied involvement of the "deep state" that the grand scheme to do *something bad* hasn't taken down Trump. Funny that they'd go to all these *amazing* lengths to get that far but would stop short of fabricating something actionable.

Let's talk again about Misfud's ties to Russia.

1. Misfud told Papadopoulos out of his own mouth that he ties to Russia and that the Russians had these stolen emails.

2. Misfud introduced Papadopoulos to an attractive college-aged Russian woman who was apparently described initially as Putin's niece. (the mysterious "Olga Polonskya" who nobody in the media at least has been able to track down — "Red Sparrow" anyone?)

3. Misfud did in fact put Papadopoulos in contact with Ivan Timofeev, director of the Russian International Affairs Council (RIAC):


The Russian International Affairs Council (RIAC) – is a non-profit academic and diplomatic think tank established by the presidential decree dated 2 February 2010.[1][2] The founders of the RIAC are the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, Ministry of Education and Science, Russian Academy of Science, the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs and Russian news agency Interfax.

The Russian International Affairs Council was founded on orders of then-President Dmitry Medvedev to contribute to Russia's soft power efforts.[3]


4. This is one you missed. Misfud has gone off the grid. Nobody seems to know where he is, this includes his Ukrainian fiance/baby's mama.

The Professor At The Center Of The Trump-Russia Probe Boasted To His Girlfriend In Ukraine That He Was Friends With Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov


Neither can Anna, his 31-year-old Ukrainian fiancé, who says he is the father of her newborn child. And her story, snatched from the pages of a John le Carré novel, offers a glimpse at the human collateral damage of an intelligence operation in which the mysterious Mifsud was allegedly a central figure.

“He said, ‘I have dinner with Lavrov tonight. Lavrov is my friend. Lavrov this, Lavrov that,’” Anna said. “He even show me picture with Lavrov.”

Anna told BuzzFeed News that she first met Mifsud about four years ago at the Bolshoi Theatre in Moscow.

He approached her while she was taking a selfie and, using English, offered to take her picture. They spoke for a bit, and he invited her to dinner, she said.

The two met again in Moscow a few months later — and “then he came to Ukraine,” Anna said, “to celebrate my niece’s birthday.”

Over the next three years, Mifsud visited Ukraine about 10 times, Anna said. “He came to celebrate a New Year, birthdays, my sister’s baby. He knew all my family. Something we celebrate, he would come. We had a good relationship,” she said.

In late October 2015, Mifsud proposed to her. Anna says they were at a restaurant overlooking the Kremlin in Moscow celebrating Anna’s sister’s birthday. The Maltese academic asked Anna to marry him at the restaurant, and gave her a ring.


This was in the last week:

The Professor At The Center Of The Trump-Russia Probe Was In Moscow Just Weeks Before Court Documents Were Unsealed

Misfud was in Moscow, speaking at the invitation of Timofeev, three weeks before the world at large became aware of his existence. That was in early October of 2017. He was last seen publicly in Rome on October 31st. As of a week ago, his whereabouts are unknown.
edit on 2018-5-7 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 7 2018 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Grambler

Where to begin.


It just says emails that are dirt on Hillary. It doesn’t say from the DNC server, or from John Podesta’s emails. The Russian is making a claim that everyone had been worrying about for months; that Russia hacked Hillary’s server and had dirt her.

If you were a Russian trying to convince someone you had goods on Hillary, this is exactly what you would say seeing as how the entire world knew Hillary was careless with her server and may have been hacked.


The way Assange hinted at the DNC release in the June 12 interview was that it (the release of DNC emails) would be damaging to Clinton ("harm Hillary Clinton's chances to win the presidency").

When Misfud and Papadopoulos were having their meetings, the Russians were actively collecting emails not from the Clinton email server (which had by then been down for what 2 years?) but from the DNC server. And it was only a few weeks or less between the May conversation between Papadopoulos and Downer and when it was revealed that that the DNC network had been compromised.

You want to believe that it's more plausible that it was a reference to emails from the Clinton email server (which had been taken offline what? 2 years prior?) but a) unlike the DNC hack, there's no actual evidence that the Russians hacked the Clinton email server and b) the known hack was actually taking place while these other events were happening.

(I'll break the responses down across a few posts)


I'm confused...

If Mifsud told Papadopoulos that Russia had thousands of emails that made Hillary look bad, in late April 2016, then that would have been before the DNC hack, wouldn't it?

The DNC emails span January 2015 to May 25, 2016 and they were all obtained (hacked/leaked) at the same time, weren't they?

So how could Mifsud be referring to the DNC emails in late April when they hadn't even been obtained (hacked/leaked) yet?

...or am I misremembering/mistaken about something?

ETA: I see now that it was two reported breaches in May of 2016. Still...that's after Misfud told Papadopoulos about the thousands of emails.
edit on 5/7/2018 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

My point on Mifsud is that he has just as strong if not stronger provable connections to Hillarys friends as he does to russia.

I think its hilarious how anyone tied to any russian right out of the gate is insinuated as somehow devastating and shady.

So given your tendency to throw around the name LAVROV in many threads as proof of something, why should his other connections to hillary not be looked at?

BTW, funny of you to criticize pointing out these connections as some far fetched conspiracy while you liken Olga to the Movie Red Sparrow, imply she is what, some brainwashed or blackmailed russian secret agent?

Please.

Even you article on his Ukranian girlfriend points out how this all seems out of a novel.

To sum it all up;

Why is any small connection or mention of Mifsud with russians made such as huge deal (as you are doing) yet his connections to Italian intel or to EU MP's that are campaigning for hillary are rarely discussed?

edit on 7-5-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

A few things.

Keep in mind that this conversation was in May. Downer didn't pass this information along immediately. He did so two months later, I believe after WikiLeaks started releasing emails.

Are you honestly saying that if in May, a Trump campaign staffer told you that the Russians had thousands of emails that they were going to use to damage Clinton and that in June, it was revealed that the Russians had hacked the DNC and then in July, a bunch of emails were released to damage the DNC/Clinton, that you would think back and ignore all that and conclude, "he must have been talking about the email server that Fox News pundits claim was most likely hacked!"

Come on! If you were being objective, you would *clearly* see that as *way* more than coincidence. I think the main reason for this is that you have never accepted that the Russians were behind the hacking. Which brings me to this:


which is garbage there is still no publicly available proof that Russia hacked the DNC


There is ample proof, not only publicly available but sourced to multiple independent sources, that the DNC was hacked. None of the deniers have ever addressed any of it. They usually just plug their ears and screech, "Seth Rich! Not a hack! It was 'proven' that it wasn't a hack!"

As far as the attribution to Russia — attribution is a bitch — but all the indications are that it was the Russians. The phishing campaigns had all the hallmarks of the Russians, the targets were many and diverse (and far beyond the DNC, the Clinton campaign, etc) but the common link was Russian interests (including some like Russian journalists who would be of little interest to anyone but Russians). The implants found on the servers are in the same family as those connected to numerous other hacks attributed to the Russians.

Yes, it's largely circumstantial, yes it's *possible* that somebody made it look like the Russians but there's a lot different threads pointing to Russia and nothing exculpatory or seriously pointing to anyone else except Assange claiming that WikiLeaks didn't get the emails from the Russians.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Grambler


Are you honestly saying that if in May, a Trump campaign staffer told you that the Russians had thousands of emails that they were going to use to damage Clinton and that in June, it was revealed that the Russians had hacked the DNC and then in July, a bunch of emails were released to damage the DNC/Clinton, that you would think back and ignore all that and conclude, "he must have been talking about the email server that Fox News pundits claim was most likely hacked!"

Come on! If you were being objective, you would *clearly* see that as *way* more than coincidence.


If a staffer told me that, I would have probably told my intel agency (australia in this case) aabout it once the wikileaks came out. I would also probaably have spoke to the FBI.

I would have still assumed at this point that this was1 not proof of anything, as it was a drunk low level guy telling me this, and he was only told the russians had emails whcih could have been referencing her previous server.

But Downer either didnt speak to australian intel, or they apparently didnt find it credible enough to tell the FBI.

I certainly wouldn't expect the FBI to open an over 2 year long investigation including wiretaps etc. based merely on my conversations with that drunk, especially considering my connections to hillary.

As much as you want to assert that tghis is somehow proof that GP talked to a russian that was in the know that Russia was hacking the dnc, this doesnt come close to proving that.

Again, the FBI launched this entire investigation into trump and his team because a low level drunk told a hillary friend that some russian guy said russia had incriminating hillary emails.

That is absurd and you know it.









As far as the attribution to Russia — attribution is a bitch — but all the indications are that it was the Russians. The phishing campaigns had all the hallmarks of the Russians, the targets were many and diverse (and far beyond the DNC, the Clinton campaign, etc) but the common link was Russian interests (including some like Russian journalists who would be of little interest to anyone but Russians). The implants found on the servers are in the same family as those connected to numerous other hacks attributed to the Russians.

Yes, it's largely circumstantial, yes it's *possible* that somebody made it look like the Russians but there's a lot different threads pointing to Russia and nothing exculpatory or seriously pointing to anyone else except Assange claiming that WikiLeaks didn't get the emails from the Russians.


Yes we know!

Those super intelligent russian spies, creating Red Sparrow's, getting Maltese professors to be their spies years in advance, having elaborate intel networks set up all over the world.

They accidentally left their signature on the hacks! Sounds legit!

Oh, and btw, at least you admit the evidence of it being russia is largely "circumstantial".

Well seeing as how that is the case, I think the FBI would have been interested in looking at the actual PHYSICAL evidence of the actual server, rather than relying on a dnc paid firm to look at it.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

It's amazing how you ignore all the context. The DNC was hacked. Podesta was phished. Paul Manafort did lead Trump's campaign for months. George Papadopoulos was telling people that he knew from his Russian connections that the Russians had emails that would be damaging to Clinton. Carter Page did fly off to Moscow in July and meet with Russian officials.

And think about all the things they didn't know about at the time like the Trump Tower debacle, Manafort's attempts to peddle influence to Deripaska, Michael Cohen reaching out to Putin's spox about the Moscow Trump Tower deal ("I don't have business in Russia!") at the behest of Sater, Sater's emails about getting Putin's people on board to "get their boy elected"), Flynn's back channel undermining of sanctions imposed against Russia — for meddling in the election, Kushner inquiring of Kislyak if the Russian embassy could be used for meetings between Team Trump and Russians, Kushner meeting with Sergey Gorkov, head of VEB (which had been used as a cover for the spy ring which Carter Page had been entangled with) at Kisylak's recommendation in December 2016, Erik Prince's odd meeting in the Seychelles, etc etc etc.

Oh, and did I mention all the lying? Was this all the Democrats and Clinton? I mean, they really are something to have created this "Russia narrative" and then orchestrated all these events to frame Trump and then to make Team Trump lie about it two.

Hell, I bet they hopped in their time machine and left that Forbes magazine for Stormy Daniels to roll up and spank Trump with.




posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Those emails must be worth a case of Lafifte Rothschild vintage wine by now. A few cases.
Apparently everyone has them but... They're in the wine cellar aging and no one wants to be the first to open them.

Otherwise where are they? Everyone else's including GWs painting images have been stolen and released. Guccifer stole and published immediatly. Cozy Bear stole and published immediately but for some crazy unknown reason Hillary's emails are being held...because...
She left the state department in Feb 2013. Five years now...where are those hacked emails and why are hers so precious they hoard them?

🍷



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye


I'm confused...

If Mifsud told Papadopoulos that Russia had thousands of emails that made Hillary look bad, in late April 2016, then that would have been before the DNC hack, wouldn't it?


No, the DNC hacks started in 2015. Their network was compromised for months. They weren't discovered until May and announced in June.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:05 PM
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And don't forget Papadapolous' history with HIllary:


He has been awarded by the U.S. State Department as a finalist to represent the United States at UNESCO in 2011.


George Papadapolous


In 2011 Hillary Rodham Clinton became the first sitting Secretary of State to visit UNESCO where she helped launch a partnership promoting education for women and girls.


U.S. State Department

Everyone seems to have forgotten this bit.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

And it wasn't just ol' Georgie's art that Guccifer got a hold of:




These new doodles, hacked by the politically-minded Guccifer and published for the first time here on Gawker, appear to be the Bill Clinton doodles that the world has patiently been waiting for.

Presidential doodles are commonly made public, and were even the subject of a book, "Presidential Doodlings," but for years, the Clinton Foundation has refused requests through its press office.


Here's Some New Hacked Presidential Art From The Clinton White House - Gawker

Gee, where did Guccifer find former president Bill Clinton' doodles?

From a server Bill and Hillary shared, that's where...



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




 How do you knopw how drunk Papadopoulos was? Does he even remember what he himself said?


He's a cooperating witness who pled guilty. I bet Mueller got the story from the horses mouth.
edit on 572018 by Sillyolme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: jadedANDcynical

No . Just no.
God you're a fountain of debunked conspiracy theories and misinformation.
edit on 572018 by Sillyolme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

First, funny at how you want to look at all of that "context" but any context regarding double standards or bias by investigators, or shadiness by Hillary and cpompany is constantly written off in a vacuum as no big deal.

For example, I couldnt help but notice your loack of opoinion on this thread discussing the FBI losing chain of custody on Hillarys server.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is concrete evidence of FBI corruption or incompetence, yet you have no comment on it.

As to all of your context, not one bit of that suggests any collusion with trump personally with russia.

Not one of it suggests that Trump or anyone asked russia to hack the DNC or offered to give them something for doing it.

Not one of those shows that anyone on trumps team were aware that Russia had hacked the DNC.

What you have falls in to two catergories.

1. shady people like manafort and others doing shady things with russsian people.

Yeah ok. I can poiint to hillary connected people with shady connections to russia as well. Hell I can point to her husband meeting with Putin in sercet and then getting half a million from a russian bank.

Where are the special counsel on that, where are the wiretaps, where are the raids of their lawyers? And where is your calls for all of that?

Oh thats right; the gloves only come off when its people connected to trump, corruption from others with russians is no need to investigate.

2. People connected to trump wanting to have good relations with Russia, like Flynn.

And so what? I support this as well. Yes, we know that the "Party of Peace" democrats want to start WW3 with russia; I dont like that idea. I agreed with campaign trump- that we should be working with russia to defeat isis.

You cite the flynn deal? Somehow its shady to have the incoming admin contacting foriegn leaders about wanting a good relationship?

SO then I assume you are for a full investigation of the Obama admin seeing as how is SOS Kerry is out there now dealing with an enemy of the US, Iran, in seeking to undermine the sitting President?

Bring in the wiretaps and special counsel!!! Oh wait, never mind, its only a big deal when trump does it.

Will finish below.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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I guess the part that amazes me the most is that people believe a billionaire businessman with public connections to a foreign government WOULDN’T already be under almost constant surveillance.

What do people think our intel agencies get paid to do? To try and hinge this conspiracy on Papadopalous being the reason for the investigation into team Trump is extremely short sighted and misinformed.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

The point ius we have three big events that people cite as to why the investigation got started or was needed.

1. GP and the story in this thread, 2. the dossier, 3. The don jr trump tower meeting.

all three have connections to hillary clinton.

Why do you ignore this context?

And then we have the context of the intel agency particularly the FBI having double standards over and over and over again that always seem to be light on Hillary and hard on trump.

But we have to ignore this context too for some reason.

No for you, trump having shady people around (whioch I admit is true) warrants this never ending witch hunt against him, but Hillary or any other people having shady people around them is no reason for even the slightest of invetsigations.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I've got to get ready to go into the office for a meeting here but briefly:


My point on Mifsud is that he has just as strong if not stronger provable connections to Hillarys friends as he does to russia.


Now his colleague is Hillary's "friend?" Even if that were true, what does that have to do with Misfud? Misfud is friends with a guy who apparently campaigned for Hillary. And?

How does that compare to Misfud flat out claiming ties to the Kremlin out of his own mouth? Did Misfud claim ties to Clinton or the DNC through his friend?

Misfud's self-described connections to the Kremlin are far more direct than a friend who was in Philly saying nice things about Clinton. And let's forget that he claimed to have knowledge from inside the Kremlin.


I think its hilarious how anyone tied to any russian right out of the gate is insinuated as somehow devastating and shady.


Because that's why anyone cares about Misfud? He flat out told Papadopoulos that he had knowledge of something that would have only come from inside the Russian government ffs. This is just Misfud has some ties to Russia, out of his own mouth he claimed something that would require some pretty damn high level connections to the Russian government.

That's without getting into the mystery girl, setting up meetings with Kremlin-connected people, bragging to his baby's mama about his dinners with the Russian Foreign Minister, etc.

All connections are not equal.


BTW, funny of you to criticize pointing out these connections as some far fetched conspiracy while you liken Olga to the Movie Red Sparrow, imply she is what, some brainwashed or blackmailed russian secret agent?


That was half (timely) joke but you don't find it at all curious that he's hooked up with this woman by Misfud and they immediately start emailing about setting up a meeting between the Trump campaign and Russian officials, using her connections?

‘Putin’s Niece,’ Olga Polonskaya, Disappears From the Internet


Federal prosecutors, though, allege that Papadopoulos, the Trump advisor, hoped that Putin’s “niece” would introduce him to the Russian ambassador in London. Papadopoulos was likewise interested in the professor “because, among other reasons, the professor claimed to have substantial connections with Russian government officials, which defendant Papadopoulos thought could increase his importance as a policy advisor to the campaign.”

After he first met the “niece,” Papadopoulos emailed the Trump campaign to report that he had talked with her about arranging “a meeting between us and the Russian leadership to discuss U.S.-Russia ties under President Trump,” according to the complaint.

“Great Work,” a campaign supervisor replied. (The Washington Post identified the man as national campaign co-chairman Sam Clovis, though he wasn’t named in court documents.)

But the criminal information sheet filed along with Papadopoulos’ guilty plea tells a different story. “I have already alerted my personal links to our conversation and your request [for a foreign policy trip to Russia],” Polonskaya allegedly wrote to Papadopoulos.

“As mentioned we are all very excited by the possibility of a good relationship with Mr. Trump. The Russian federation would love to welcome him once his candidature would be officially announced.”


Who would ever think that she was anything more than a "very good-looking" "student" from St. Petersburg?



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
And don't forget Papadapolous' history with HIllary:


He has been awarded by the U.S. State Department as a finalist to represent the United States at UNESCO in 2011.


George Papadapolous


In 2011 Hillary Rodham Clinton became the first sitting Secretary of State to visit UNESCO where she helped launch a partnership promoting education for women and girls.


U.S. State Department

Everyone seems to have forgotten this bit.


Yes thank you so much, I knew I was forgetting something.

Mifsud, Pittella, Downer, and GP himself; all connected to hillary.

Yet we are supposed to believe that this story of a drunk saying a russian said they had emails that were dirt on hillary were reason for this never ending investigation of trump that morphs every day (to now raiding his lawyer of him banging a porn star).

And GP didnt even say he or trumps team offered russians anything in return, or that they asked russia to hack, or even that they asked for these emails once they supposedly knew Russia had them.

If this story was all it took for comeys (obamas) fbi to start this investigation, then its proof they didnt like trump and were looking for any reason to go after him.

Big surprise given the actions of all of the leaders of the intel community we have seen since then.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
I guess the part that amazes me the most is that people believe a billionaire businessman with public connections to a foreign government WOULDN’T already be under almost constant surveillance.

What do people think our intel agencies get paid to do? To try and hinge this conspiracy on Papadopalous being the reason for the investigation into team Trump is extremely short sighted and misinformed.


Tell that to the democrat anti trumpers.

They came out with this story as the start of the investigation once they realized that if the Clinton paid for dossier was the start, it would look real bad.

And as usual it backfires, and using the GP story still looks really bad.



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
I guess the part that amazes me the most is that people believe a billionaire businessman with public connections to a foreign government WOULDN’T already be under almost constant surveillance.

What do people think our intel agencies get paid to do? To try and hinge this conspiracy on Papadopalous being the reason for the investigation into team Trump is extremely short sighted and misinformed.


WOW
Surveillance state 24/7
JFC that verifies EVERYTHING the founders were fearful of

Boy was I naive to think our rights would have to be take away, it appears they have already been given willingly in exchange for serving up a political opponent....



posted on May, 7 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Great post OP
...Very well done




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