Boy Scouts of America agree 'inclusive' name change

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: bulwarkz

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: bulwarkz
Then what the hell are they required to do it with boys? Go and frickin camp. Just do it.

eriktheawful

Leaders of the Boy Scout chose to do this, essentially expanding the venturing program that already existed.

“Why are they forced to do this?”
They’re not, read the thread, get educated.

I have to admit, I am not supporting the BSA. They lost me years ago. They are in no way at all representative of the ideals I gleaned as a scout from the awesome mentors I had as scoutmasters.

I can only speak of scouting as I know it. Todays BSA leadership might as well be all women from top down and bottom up as it is lost in a P.C. world that hates little boys.

Other than opening a wider range of their activities to girls, how have they changed?

BOY scouts? Dude?

So nothing else?

Just checking.

Nothing else. I started with the basic fact that it is not boys as implied in the name. I used this as a foundational point in foundational changes, that includes, exculusionof the name boy, in the boyscouts. This is asinine to think I cannot express it any deeper. The changes are so dramatic the name boy does not adequately represent a boys organization. So they removed the name boy from boyscouts. But it is still the same organization. Yeah right. Next thing you know you guys will claim it is hate speech if we use examples of what changes destroyed this "boys" organization.

If the shoe fits - but before we digress into amateur psychology, everything expressed in this thread indications the only foundational change is that of the more inclusionary stance they’re taking for girls, and thus the name change to better reflect who they are/want to be as an organization.

You fail to express any fundamental changes within the organization other than that. I just find it an incredibly shallow objection.

originally posted by: bulwarkz
I was responding to his many examples of girls doing anything boys can do, as if that is all that is needed for why boys cannot hang with boys under male tutelage learning to be men from mena reply to: eNumbra

Oh good god, just how ignorant are you?

You think scouting is nothing but camping? It's a LOT more than just that.

The point of Boy Scouts is not to provide MALE tutelage to boys. The core values of scouting apply to ALL HUMANS.

The reason it started out that way just over a 100 years ago, is that IS how society was back then, and for several decades after.

But times change. Males realize that females can do just about everything they can, and yes, even enjoy doing the same things as males.

However: the BSA is not a Men's Only Club It was never intended to be that.

Scouting is about YOUTH TRAINING. How to be self reliable. How to also work as a team. How to care for and be a good steward of nature (Leave No Trace), how to be a good citizen in your community, nation and the world itself. How to be helpful. How to be respectful.

The GSA fails in some of these areas because in many cases they are still in a era of women needing to know their place.

The BSA gave young women a chance to do the very things that they were being excluded from starting in the 1990s, and in the almost 30 years that they began that program, those very same women have excelled. All they are doing now is offering it for girls that are even younger so they don't have to wait until they are 14.

originally posted by: eriktheawful

originally posted by: bulwarkz
I was responding to his many examples of girls doing anything boys can do, as if that is all that is needed for why boys cannot hang with boys under male tutelage learning to be men from mena reply to: eNumbra

Oh good god, just how ignorant are you?

You think scouting is nothing but camping? It's a LOT more than just that.

The point of Boy Scouts is not to provide MALE tutelage to boys. The core values of scouting apply to ALL HUMANS.

The reason it started out that way just over a 100 years ago, is that IS how society was back then, and for several decades after.

But times change. Males realize that females can do just about everything they can, and yes, even enjoy doing the same things as males.

However: the BSA is not a Men's Only Club It was never intended to be that.

Scouting is about YOUTH TRAINING. How to be self reliable. How to also work as a team. How to care for and be a good steward of nature (Leave No Trace), how to be a good citizen in your community, nation and the world itself. How to be helpful. How to be respectful.

The GSA fails in some of these areas because in many cases they are still in a era of women needing to know their place.

The BSA gave young women a chance to do the very things that they were being excluded from starting in the 1990s, and in the almost 30 years that they began that program, those very same women have excelled. All they are doing now is offering it for girls that are even younger so they don't have to wait until they are 14.

dude almost every example you used was about camping

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: dug88

There was definately no boys in the girls camp, not when I was a kid. If they were caught they'd be tied to a steak and slowly cooked.We had tents back then. There were cabins but we had a choice between the two.

I remember one camping trip in a tent another in a cabin. The one in the tent was at some Rv campground with water and electricity and such, the cabins were fancier than the house i lived in. This was in cub scouts though...I quit at the start of the cabin camping trip because I kinda hated scouts and ended up going on an epic camping trip with my dad and sister instead.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Here's a great interview about the history of the BSA and GSA, how they've been traditionally at each other's throats, and how the creation of the GSA was because girls were trying to get involved with the boy scouts (though they lost their way down the line).
Why Do the Boy Scouts Want to Include Girls?

When [Robert Baden-Powell's guide book for scouting] Scouting for Boys was first published serially in 1907, there was a lot of interest among both boys and girls. It was a movement designed for boys, but a lot of girls got a hold of the book and were doing scouting. In some cases, they even wrote-in to headquarters using their initials rather than their first names, so they were kind of unofficial girl scouts. But early leadership got concerned because they were afraid that boys would be turned off from a youth movement that had girls in it. They thought it would be unappealing; it wouldn’t be manly.

Baden-Powell enlisted his sister as head of the girls version of the movement, called the Girl Guides, and published the first girls version in 1909 and then the organization got off the ground in 1910. These early years were kind of messy and they really felt strongly that it should be a single-sex movement for each, that their development was different. When the movement spread to other countries, including the U.S., it did so as a single-sex movement. The British Boy Scouts developed boy scouting movements in other places and the Girl Guides developed girl scout movements in other places—and they weren’t always at the same time.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SKEPTEK

Ask them. Girl Scouts of America isn't the same organization as the Boy Scouts of America. They aren't beholden to the decisions that the BSA makes. Why is it that everyone has to come in and mention them in some weak attempt to sound smart? Especially when I covered this on page 1.

Because whayaboutism is easy, and private organizations can only do things of their own volition when they agree with them.
Denying ignorance hasn’t been a strong suit here for a while.

That's only a half-truth. Fact is, groups such as the National Organization of Women have been lobbying the BSA to allow girls for years.

"In its resolution, NOW also calls on the federal government to prohibit any federal support for the Boy Scouts until the organization ends its discriminatory ban against girls."

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SKEPTEK

Ask them. Girl Scouts of America isn't the same organization as the Boy Scouts of America. They aren't beholden to the decisions that the BSA makes. Why is it that everyone has to come in and mention them in some weak attempt to sound smart? Especially when I covered this on page 1.

Because whayaboutism is easy, and private organizations can only do things of their own volition when they agree with them.
Denying ignorance hasn’t been a strong suit here for a while.

That's only a half-truth. Fact is, groups such as the National Organization of Women have been lobbying the BSA to allow girls for years.

"In its resolution, NOW also calls on the federal government to prohibit any federal support for the Boy Scouts until the organization ends its discriminatory ban against girls."

Doesn't surprise me. The only gender specific national organisation for young people left in the UK now is the Girl Guides (spinoff scouts created by Baden Powell's sister), boys are not allowed to join.
Every other national organisation, from military cadets to St Johns Ambulance are open to girls and boys. Strange how the Girl Guides are the only one to discriminate on gender. Not that I care of course, I couldn't give a # to be honest, just pointing it out.

Why can't boys have anything only for boys?
We've gone from segregation to forced integration.
Everyone should be free to associate with whoever they want.
On the flip side they should be allowed to NOT associate with whoever they want.
Do we want boys staying over at teenage girl sleepovers?
I'm sure that would fly like a lead balloon.
It isn't fair to make boys wrestle against girls or play football with them.
It's not fair to the girls because they are at a disadvantage.
The last winner of girl's wrestling was a boy who identified as a girl.
Fine, wear a dress - that is freedom.
But wrestling against girls?
I guess he couldn't stand the idea of competition.

We are destroying our youth with the T&$^#! up ideas about gender.
1 kid in 1,000 has issues so we force everyone to do this or not do that to accomodate that 1 child.
We used to call it mental illness, I don't agree but by the same token don't force society to change on their account.

We fail to give our culture enough credit, it got us through for the last few centuries.
Obviously it works and if it ain't broke - don't fix it.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: SKEPTEK

Ask them. Girl Scouts of America isn't the same organization as the Boy Scouts of America. They aren't beholden to the decisions that the BSA makes. Why is it that everyone has to come in and mention them in some weak attempt to sound smart? Especially when I covered this on page 1.

Because whayaboutism is easy, and private organizations can only do things of their own volition when they agree with them.
Denying ignorance hasn’t been a strong suit here for a while.

That's only a half-truth. Fact is, groups such as the National Organization of Women have been lobbying the BSA to allow girls for years.

"In its resolution, NOW also calls on the federal government to prohibit any federal support for the Boy Scouts until the organization ends its discriminatory ban against girls."

Organizations are constantly calling for the pulling of public funds/governmental support against one another when they see practices as discriminatory or going against their own political leanings.
They can choose to take path A or B, it’s still their choice.

I’ll grant a quarter, maybe a third of a truth here:

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

We've gone from segregation to forced integration.
Everyone should be free to associate with whoever they want.
On the flip side they should be allowed to NOT associate with whoever they want.

The BSA did this voluntarily and no one makes anyone else join the BSA.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I think this change sucks. Honest answer.

originally posted by: BotheLumberJack
a reply to: Asktheanimals

I think this change sucks. Honest answer.

I agree, you already have the Girl Scouts.
Want to start the Gay Scouts?
Fine, that's your choice.
No Gender Scouts?
Start your own chapter of that too.
I don't even want to know what you get merit badges for in that organization.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Just be "The Scouts" like in the UK...what is so troublesome about that?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I can only speak for my country here but consider this:

There are summer/holiday camps in Germany similar to what "scouts" do. Very often it´s organized by the (catholic) church. But most of them are mixed and you would not believe how many girls want to go there.

Seperate tents of course. Traditional "boy"-stuff and traditional "girls"-stuff is both accessible to each group. They camp at the same place, eat and cook the same but the activities vary greatly. There will be activities that often only boys will subscribe to and vice versa.

That all works well until they get 13-14 years old. Then you have to keep watch on the tents at night.

But besides that, having girls around benefits the team spirit as in the sense of, rope pulling winner team will always be boys

But like I said, I can´t speak for the situation with the boy scouts. What you wrote, I can only agree:

Everyone should be free to associate with whoever they want.
On the flip side they should be allowed to NOT associate with whoever they want.

Resume:
It can work, as seen here, but it also needs to be possible the other way, just like you wrote.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Just be "The Scouts" like in the UK...what is so troublesome about that?

It's been the Boy Scouts for over 100 years.
What's wrong with just leaving that alone?
I joined BSA when I was 10.
I wouldn't have if it included girls.
My best friend was a girl but I wasn't interested in being around girls at that age.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Just be "The Scouts" like in the UK...what is so troublesome about that?

It's been the Boy Scouts for over 100 years.
What's wrong with just leaving that alone?

...urm...girls being able to join brand revamp don't you think?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

i know at least 1 person who is pissed about girl scouts. he is always taking his daughter to their # and he was going to set up for them to sell cookies. he said for every box they sell they only get like a 70 cents credit to save up to do some #.

i dont know how it works in the scouts bsa but he is not happy about that. i feel like he had to come out of his pocket for something too but maybe with fewer kids joining this stupid # and the girl scouts sounding like a racket theyre trying to appeal to more people?

how can that be though



all seems lame to me.

maybe we should go back to it being a sausage fest with molester type daddy scout leaders.

I foresee positive pregnancy tests after camping trips.

It will happen.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
maybe we should go back to it being a sausage fest with molester type daddy scout leaders.

Mad crazy you triggered a memory with that, all my mates in cadets knew in our subconscious minds that scouts were more vulnerable than us.
Girls were actually safer in cadets because military rules.

Actually it is in the rules now that the molesters can be leaders. Unless you are saying that the molester type daddy scout leaders are being wronged because they joined the boyscouts for the sausages?a reply to: TinySickTears