In Venezuela, five years of severance pay now buys a coffee

a reply to: Bone75

Kulak = landowner

Could it be that government dictated fixed prices on agricultural products and at 13,000% inflation rate it's not worth cost to get to market?

Therefore cheaper to burn crops and let fields go fallow.

That the moniker "kulak" was used is very telling.

originally posted by: Metallicus
You are spot on...Socialism is equality through shared misery. It does nothing to motivate excellence and instead of lifting others up it tears everyone down.

This is what happens when a former leader calls Bush a "donkey." It has very little to do with socialism. After Chavez there was a power void and the two main opponents were ripping off the public coffers and destroying everything they could touch.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: Metallicus
You are spot on...Socialism is equality through shared misery. It does nothing to motivate excellence and instead of lifting others up it tears everyone down.

This is what happens when a former leader calls Bush a "donkey." It has very little to do with socialism. After Chavez there was a power void and the two main opponents were ripping off the public coffers and destroying everything they could touch.

Nope. Venezuela's collapse was well on its way by the time Chavez died. When he started nationalizing industries, all the foreign investors took their money and fled. Why should (let's say) General Motors invest money in an auto plant that could get confiscated at any moment? After he re-nationalized the oil industry, Chavez never bothered to spend the money required to keep the facilities running. So of course everything broke down.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I told them the media tells us it is the fault of socialism and they laughed, they thought that was hysterical, dumb and not even close to the reality. Their words were something along the lines of " we are paying a heavy price for not towing the line to American interests ".

Sounds like something out of Russia during the 80s...some people will never learn.

why do people not understand that the real reason america fears socialism and communism is because both ideologies disrupt the free market and threaten economic stability of the world.

once a nation goes on that path they usually nationalize businesses and isolate themselves as a result, their economy becomes a mess because nobody wants to invest anymore and many professionals of every sector leave the country.

the reason capitalism works is because it embraces human nature, socialism and communism will never work because it denies human nature and tries to force unnatural behavior, it's idealistic and unrealistic, it's a sign of a failed society that has given up, living like a hermit hiding from others because they are afraid to let anyone in close to them.

socialism and communism are not good for humanity period.

originally posted by: namehere
why do people not understand that the real reason america fears socialism and communism is because both ideologies disrupt the free market and threaten economic stability of the world.

once a nation goes on that path they usually nationalize businesses and isolate themselves as a result, their economy becomes a mess because nobody wants to invest anymore and many professionals of every sector leave the country.

the reason capitalism works is because it embraces human nature, socialism and communism will never work because it denies human nature and tries to force unnatural behavior, it's idealistic and unrealistic, it's a sign of a failed society that has given up, living like a hermit hiding from others because they are afraid to let anyone in close to them.

socialism and communism are not good for humanity period.

Have you ever heard of the Great Depression? That actually DID wreck the economic stability of the world. Apparently Capitalism isn't good for humanity either.

originally posted by: namehere

the reason capitalism works is because it embraces human nature, socialism and communism will never work because it denies human nature

Explain this "human nature" concept to me, because I'm seriously having a hard time wrapping my brain around it.

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Bone75

Kulak = landowner

Could it be that government dictated fixed prices on agricultural products and at 13,000% inflation rate it's not worth cost to get to market?

Therefore cheaper to burn crops and let fields go fallow.

That the moniker "kulak" was used is very telling.

Collectivization worked. Of course Stalin wound up killing 3 million murderers to make it work, but eventually it worked.

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: 727Sky
Can you imagine the state of affairs in Venezuela now that the country has just about fallen to a point of no return ? What if the present monetary worth of what ever you use for money was devalued to the point it has in Venezuela...? Several years ago just about the same thing happened in Argentina and the stories of survival/crime were horrendous from what I read. youtu.be... Argentina

Venezuela was once upon a time a great and safe destination....However even back as late as 2000 time frame (if not earlier) my Spanish speaking flight attendants (some were born in Venezuela) would not leave our over night hotel for fear of BAD THINGS... Stuff like this is so sad on many different levels... Who's fault is this ? I would say look no farther than the socialist who took over the country...

There is a saying I have heard more than once that the Marxist or socialist want everyone at the same misery level (except for the inner circle and the leaders which seem do do quite well until they lose their heads).. If one looks at history I would say that is pretty spot on. Socialism takes the incentive out of being productive IMO.

CARACAS (AFP) -

When Yolanda Abreu got her check for severance pay after five years working as a cardiologist, she let out a laugh of sheer disbelief: it was barely enough for a cup of coffee.

Like her, millions of Venezuelans have seen their salaries decimated by rampant hyperinflation that is expected to drive prices up by 13,000 percent this year, IMF figures show.

Her story hit the headlines after she tweeted a photo of the check for 156,584.29 bolivars, which equates to about $0.20 on the black market.

"They called me from Caracas University Hospital to come and collect my check for benefits accrued over five years of service as a level 2 specialist in cardiology and electrophysiology," she wrote on Twitter.

And what will it buy, she wondered indignantly. "A coffee?"

www.france24.com...

Who's fault is this ? I would say look no farther than the socialist who took over the country... Text

I've read threads of a very similar vein, tone and tenor to this thread. Perhaps they have been written by the same ATS member, While I do not know, they all seem to similar in format and construction. It therefore appears to me that someone is using the situation in Venezuela to peddle their political ideology.

By attributing the cause of the situation in Venezuela to socialism to the total exclusion of all and any other causes and factors, the thread seems to show the thread exists for no other reason than to attack socialism.

There was a national strike in protest at the government trying to "level" salaries to make the country more "fair".
Then the oil industry workers joined in. The government seeing that a critical national resource was under threat, then fired those workers and had them replaced. The only problem is that the geology of Venezuela is very difficult and it takes experienced geologists to successfully explore, drill and extract oil. The replacements kept making mistakes and ended up damaging machines and pipelines. Those cost money to repair and every time a particular system breaks down that's less oil revenue.

If they government hadn't tried to reduce those high paying salaries, they wouldn't be in that mess. Socialists do this all over the world. They started putting mega-taxes on the CEO's of Silicon Valley, to the point 50% of those salaries were being used to subsidize the low income immgrants (legal and illegal). These those CEO's moved out along with
other high earners leaving California with a deficit and a tax on those leaving.

"I spoke to a couple from Venezuela the other day, I asked why in their opinion the country is in such trouble, their opinion was the puppet dictator installed by the American government is the cause of woes.

I told them the media tells us it is the fault of socialism and they laughed, they thought that was hysterical, dumb and not even close to the reality. Their words were something along the lines of " we are paying a heavy price for not towing the line to American interests "."



You left out the part where the C.I.A. assassinated Hugo Chavez with a top secret cancer super weapon. Pew, pew, pew!

So what you're getting at is when capitalism fails, it's capitalism's fault. And when socialism fails harder, it's capitalism's fault. Ok, got it! Socialism is an all powerful ideology that can never fail unless undermined by a devious actor just like Germany could have never lost World War I without being undermined by a certain group of people.

The lesson we need to be taking away here is that rampant anything is very bad - be it socialism or capitalism. Heaven help us if it national socialism. But it is very quickly turning into a case of all that is going to be left standing are these two extremes pitted against each other. I can most assuredly tell you that it doesn't matter which one wins that fight. It will end the same either way - badly. And the same psychopaths that are benefiting now will benefit then firmly implanted betwixt two warring factions without a care in the world who will be the victor because they got theirs and then they got out.

If you sit down and analyze it the new left is very much the same beast as the old right. Right down to their greed for control and even their social stances. What was the old religious right but the identity politics of yesteryear? Look at that story the other day about a college teaching young males that they have a mental illness if they follow their nature and be masculine. Is that not the same thing the left has always railed against the religious right for doing to the homosexuals? It's like when Elvis copied the same music black people were making and suddenly white people were buying it. It's the same music, just a different target audience.

I just wish the new left and the old right would realize how laughably the same they are. And also how very wrong they all are. It would save the rest of us with any shred of sense left a lot of grief.

a reply to: Ameilia

The new Dem platform will likely include a guaranteed job and $15 an hour federal minimum wage.

a reply to: sooth

If when you analyze the left and right and pay little attention to the bigger picture you get a limited view.

Your views may be capitalism this and socialism that, they are not mine however, I find it difficult to talk in such extremes, the system is far more complex than simply jumping to one ideology to the next, it's all connected and intertwined in many different ways.

originally posted by: watchitburn
Whether socialism was a factor or not is up for debate, it seems to me that corrupt Govt is the main cause here and usually is.

Unchecked socialism always leads to corruption. Ditto unchecked capitalism, corruption and plutocracy.

Below, you will see some of the most socialistic nations in the world today:
◾China
◾Denmark
◾Finland
◾Netherlands
◾Canada
◾Sweden
◾Norway
◾Ireland
◾New Zealand
◾Belgium

Despite popular myths, there is very little connection between economic performance and welfare expenditure. Many of the countries on this list are proof of that, such as Denmark and Finland. Even though both countries are more socialistic than America, the workforce remains stronger.

blog.peerform.com...

I am not advocating for socialism. I am a capitalist.
But making socialist policy in it's entirety, a "boogyman" is a Straw-Man argument