The Ukraine again pushing for entry in NATO?

a reply to: RadioRobert

I see your point.

Yet name me any organization that we've joined that has retained it's original goal or intention?

I see this Chamberlain-like appeasement in too many European nations and history repeating itself. Putin obviously wants more buffer states and all the crap we went through in the cold war...and won, is being handed right back via hand-wringing fear of upsetting Putin.

Amazing. We'll get nose to nose with him in Syria and Putin largely backs down on his rhetoric of defending Syria but the Ukraine? No way. The irony is Russia isn't my concern in the ME anyways. It surely is Israel and Iran.

Is there another option you can think of?

I see this Chamberlain-like appeasement in too many European nations and history repeating itself

There was close to 40% approval in Germany for Putin's annexation of Crimea. Germany is currently completely against military intervention in nearly any form. I am not sure a Russian invasion of Poland toward the eastern frontier of Germany woud stir them. Ask the Weremacht how defending a front in eastern europe with noncommital troops worked out in '44.

And if you recognize this complete aversion to armed conflict from current member nations (indeed, they won't even undertake their own treaty obligations to defense spending for their own armed forces) as you seem to, doesn't that argue against chaining our own foreign policy to them? At what point does Europe get to make it's own bed? Or do we continue to commit ourselves to enormous defense spending to protect everyone worldwide?

a reply to: RadioRobert

Trouble is we get sucked into their machinations in any event. That's my worry. "Pay me now...or pay me later"?

'44? They were out of gas.

I don't want to fight anywhere the natives don't have the will to. Whether that's alongside Romanians in 44 or ARVN in 69.

Ukraine and Georgia cannot and should not be in NATO due to the area of influence they are in. Any further expansion of NATO will be seen as direct threat to every country.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Sorry but didn't they have a vote overseen by the UN to see if Crimea wanted to join the Russian Federation? why not have a vote to see if anywhere else does as well, then their will be no need for anymore fighting.

originally posted by: RadioRobert
I don't want to fight anywhere the natives don't have the will to. Whether that's alongside Romanians in 44 or ARVN in 69.

Now that's a very good point.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: RadioRobert

Sorry but didn't they have a vote overseen by the UN to see if Crimea wanted to join the Russian Federation? why not have a vote to see if anywhere else does as well, then their will be no need for anymore fighting.

No Vote "overseen' by the U.N..

Wiki has the full story an it's a lot different than many assume. The vote was 'overseen' by paid gunmen in the actual assembly!