NASA Cancels Moon Mission Despite Trump's Space Policy Directive 1

a reply to: oldcarpy

I don't think that there are any power issues arising from an orbital observatory as moving it uses propellant which has nothing to do with operating the equipment.

Ah, but think about that for a second. Yes, propulsion itself is often achieved by way of releasing gas of some kind. But there has to be a system on board to do that, a system for firing and controlling the gas flow, the pipes to carry it, the weight of gas necessary to last some time, and so on and so forth.

Resupplying a Moon based one would prove expensive.

Resupplying with what though? Sure, you could have it manned, but what I am proposing is that the thing be automated, largely speaking, only requiring human interaction (after the completion of its construction at least), if something goes wrong. The whole idea would be to create an observatory which uses no finite resource. It would need to be solar powered of course, and a communications relay point would need to be established on the Earth facing side of the moon, so that instructions could be sent to the observatory, directing it to acquire a new target region of space for examination.

But like I say, you could very well man the base, and it would be a project of some significant import, not to mention scientific interest. No matter whether we think in terms of the sociological and biological stresses applied to people that far from home, for that long, or whether we are interested in the environmental factors, increased risk of radiation damage, prolonged exposure to low gravity conditions, and so on and so forth, there is something to be learned, JUST in the doing of the thing. When you add the potential value of a large, powerful observatory on the Moon though, the whole idea takes on a totally different scope (see what I did there?).

But yes, I would like to see a Moon based habitat - perhaps a bit like Moonbase Alpha?

Perhaps. Probably less complex, without the flying vehicles and over the top moon buggies the size of small houses. There is a great deal more to learn about our Moon than many are willing to credit it with. Couple that with the need for better data about the space immediate to us, as well as the space beyond, as well as the often overlooked importance of early warning for the approach of asteroids, I think it is a project which ought to go ahead. WHEN we, the human race, return to the Moon, it should be with the intention of making use of the fact that this is an orbiting body that we do not need to control the orbit of, that this orbiting body provides advantages to an observation effort, that no mere man made satellite can provide.

And in all honesty, I think that when we return, we should do so with the intention that some of the people who go, should stay a significant while.

a reply to: TrueBrit


An interesting article from Space.Com on the advantages and disadvantages of the Moon and free space:

Grand Plans and Clear Problems

Lunar dust is a problem, apparently, due to it's abrasiveness. Interestingly, there are some scientists who argue that the Moon is a good place to observe the Earth rather than space.

I think that man's focus will now be fixed on Mars, but who knows?

a reply to: oldcarpy

I can understand the fascination with Mars, but as we have previously discussed on these boards, currently, transit to Mars takes FAR too long to be practical, and I certainly would not expect anyone of any intelligence at all, to elect to go on a Mars mission as of today, using todays most advanced gear, because frankly and with the greatest respect, its none of it up to snuff.

First of all, we have the propulsion issue. When the lads went to the Moon, for a bit of joyriding and golfing, the transit time was approximately three days. Rescue, although difficult, was neither impossible to conceive, nor would it have been impossible to pull off. Three days is a long time in a high pressure situation, but tough people do tough things, and the men who were sent up there had the mental strength required to survive anything that could have been survived. But Mars is six to eight MONTHS away, depending on the departure date and relative positions of Earth and Mars in their orbits. Until we build propulsion methods that can get us there in days not months, we should not consider a manned mission there. Its simply irresponsible to the crew of whatever craft we send, to throw them into the void with no hope of recovery in the event of an accident.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Crap like this simply lends credence towards the idea that we already have some kind of secret space program, like Solar Warden.

After all, there is no way humanity is not interested in whats up there, or out there, especially TPTB and the like.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
What makes you think new tech wouldn't come from this?

Not saying that it didn't. But I also know that a lot of that technology developed because of WWII and very likely would have continued to develop even without a space race. But there was a space race, so on the opposite side of the coin you can't say that it wouldn't have developed without it.

originally posted by: randyvs
You gotta be kidding me ?
LMAO

Rand McNally never lets me down in my
truck.

Thing about GPS is that it only works on the surface of the Earth. Once you're in space, you're back to using string and chewing gum to navigate to where you're going.

EDIT: Although I suppose nowadays they have much more sophisticated computers and guidance systems, and if nothing else they can zero on on the reflective modules left by the Apollo missions and lunar landers. So maybe they won't need the sextant.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Don't forget that with much less surface gravity, vehicles launched from the moon would be much lighter and reach transit speed far quicker than a vehicle launched from Earth. I'm seeing the moon base idea as sort of a starting point from which to reach Mars in a shorter time span. Six to eight months is indeed problematic.

TheRedneck

Jim Bridenstine sounds like a giant idiot. To be in charge of NASA, and not want to go explore the space around you is completely insane..

that is unless, they know something we don't..... like, aliens????? cue the X-Files theme.....

a reply to: Blue Shift

Lasers(range finding/lock on) and radar(general direction finding) would be my guess as to how we navigate in space.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
[...] what I am proposing is that the thing be automated, largely speaking, only requiring human interaction (after the completion of its construction at least), if something goes wrong.

I remember thinking years ago that it would be great to send up a bunch of robotic spiders that would carve and smooth out a good-sized crater on the farside, then weave a web of wiring that would create a huge radio telescope there, nicely shielded from most of the Earth's noise. A human being wouldn't even have to be there.

a reply to: TheRedneck

This is also a fundamentally important reason to make the Moon the next port of call. Good shout, TheRedneck!

a reply to: TheRedneck

I think its also advantageous to use the moon for all of our more exotic experiments and the more volatile substances etc that we would normally house on the green and blue earth!

the lunar surface is a good place to have bacteriology , virology , chemical / nuclear research because there is less risk to human lives !

all of our more dangerous practices could be carried out in relative safety on the moon!

a reply to: sapien82


You are forgetting that getting all this dangerous stuff to the Moon involves putting them on top of a rocket, which may well malfunction with rather nasty consequences for us all.

a reply to: sapien82

I doubt we see that any time soon. When I mention a moon base, I am discussing something akin to a space station anchored to a relatively stable body, not some resort with a stocked lab and equipment. The research you mention requires quite a lot of support and quite a lot of researchers skilled in different fields. There's just nowhere near the infrastructure needed on the moon, and likely won't be for quite some time.

Your idea would make more sense on Mars, since there is more room and more resources, not to mention more gravity to hold things down.

Initial infrastructure on both will not be geared towards research un-associated with the planet itself. It will be eared toward survival and construction.

TheRedneck