Originally posted by Heartagram
Who in the hell says this thread is about anti-America disguise with sugarcoatings kozmo?My point is straight and frank-SHOULD the U.S be stop?See at
the end of the phrase there's a question mark and this shows a question.I am asking and not shutting everyone up and saying America should be
Anyways,I'd love for you to explain to me and the others about the "WMD,oh no!let's change it to operation Iraqi freedom!" issue,kozmo.Explained
with full details and links than I'll shut my gap up and call myself naughty.
[edit on 25/2/05 by Heartagram]
Oh heartagram, you have just crossed the threashold into the realm of Pandora's box. You want to discuss WMD in Iraq? Gladly! Links? No problem,
I could actually furnish THOUSANDS!
Let's begin with the UN, shall we? 18, that's EIGHTEEN, UN resolutions passed by the UN in an attempt to delivery transparency to the
Iraq/Saddam/WMD issue. Click this link for resolutions: www.state.gov...
In reviewing the above link, I am hopeful that you took the time to read, CAREFULLY, the details of each resolution, their goals and objectives and
the implied consequences for failure to comply. What is necessary to address is that these resolutions were PASSED by the UN Security Council. A
"yes" vote for the passage of such resolution indicates a vote of both confidence in and agreement with the content and context of said resolution.
Each resolution was passed unanamously with the exception of 1441 which saw two abstaining votes and zero "no" votes.
While vigorously campaigning the UN Security Council, Colin Powell made it perfectly clear that the "Serious consequences" in Res 1441 would mean
military action and he implored each representative of the council to either abstain from the vote or enter a "no" vote if they felt that they could
not support military action against a Iraq as a consequence for non-compliance. The following is the excerpt from Res 1441: "13. Recalls, in that
context, the the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of it's continued violations of it's
obligations; " Neither Powell nor the US minced words on it's intent to fully enforce this resolution once passed, with or without the direct aid
of the UN recognizing it's full legal authority to independently preside over such article as mandated by the UN bylaws.
For a full text version of this resolution, click the following: www.state.gov...
Now, heartagram, let me ask you a question... What good is the UN if it requires the passage of EIGHTEEN resolutions against a nation, each
containing the same premise, followed by blatant violations by the nation in question and then fails to act in accordance with it's own mandates?
The simple passage of such resolution clearly demonstrates that the ENTIRE WORLD believed, via it's UN representatives "Yes" votes supporting said
resolutions, that Saddam Hussein had WMD?
Now let's take a closer look at those WMDs, shall we? Read the following for a listing of clandestine weapon programs as believed by the CIA:
. Click here for information from both the CIA and the UK, including the testominy of Blix
and Albaredei along with UNMOVIC AND IAEA reports, regarding these programs: middleeastreference.org.uk...
. Also, I am
providing alink to David Kay's testimony with respect to these programs AFTER the conflict began, it is here:
Of particular importance is the following excerpt from his testimony: "Why are we having such difficulty in finding weapons or in reaching a
confident conclusion that they do not exist or that they once existed but have been removed? Our search efforts are being hindered by six principal
From birth all of Iraq's WMD activities were highly compartmentalized within a regime that ruled and kept its secrets through fear and terror and
with deception and denial built into each program.
Deliberate dispersal and destruction of material and documentation related to weapons programs began pre-conflict and ran trans- to post-conflict.
Post-OIF looting destroyed or dispersed important and easily collectable material and forensic evidence concerning Iraq's WMD program. As the report
covers in detail, significant elements of this looting were carried out in a systematic and deliberate manner, with the clear aim of concealing
pre-OIF activities of Saddam's regime.
Some WMD personnel crossed borders in the pre/trans-conflict period and may have taken evidence and even weapons-related materials with them.
Any actual WMD weapons or material is likely to be small in relation to the total conventional armaments footprint and difficult to near impossible to
identify with normal search procedures. It is important to keep in mind that even the bulkiest materials we are searching for, in the quantities we
would expect to find, can be concealed in spaces not much larger than a two-car garage.
The environment in Iraq remains far from permissive for our activities, with many Iraqis that we talk to reporting threats and overt acts of
intimidation and our own personnel being the subject of threats and attacks. In September alone we have had three attacks on ISG facilities or teams:
The ISG base in Irbil was bombed and four staff injured, two very seriously; a two-person team had their vehicle blocked by gunmen and only escaped by
firing back through their own windshield; and on Wednesday, September 24, the ISG Headquarters in Baghdad again was subject to mortar attack.
What have we found and what have we not found in the first three months of our work?
We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during
the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi
scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has
discovered that should have been declared to the U.N."
Notice, this statement supports SPECIFICALLY a material breach of any and ALL UN resolutions pertaining to Saddam's WMD program.
Furthermore, the international community was aware of Saddam's prior use of such weapons against his own people. In addition, evidence was surfacing
regarding Saddam's material support to terrorist organizations around the the world. Some examples include paying $25K to the family of Palestinian
suicide bombers, the exsistence of the Salman Pak hijacking training camp located south of Baghdad, and countless other examples. According to
Ambassador Bremmer's comments, he stated, "it is incontestable that Iraq has supported terrorism. Iraq has been on the State Department list of
states that support terrorism for more than twenty years. At least two major terrorist groups have had their headquarters openly in Baghdad for most
of that time--the Palestine Liberation Front and the Mujahedin-e Khalq. Moreover, as the President said last night, known international terrorists
like Abu Abbas and Abu Nidal have lived openly in Baghdad--in the case of Abu Abbas, more than twenty years, and Abu Nidal, for more than a decade. So
it is incontestable that Iraq is a supporter of terrorism, and on that there is no disagreement. [NOTE: Public denunciation of Iraq's sponsorship of
terrorism predates 9/11. The cases cited by the President were covered, for example, in the Patterns of Global Terrorism report for 2000, especially
in the report's Overview, which can be accessed at: www.state.gov...
Now, heartagram, let's be honest here... a direct absence of evidence does not translate into evidence of absence. In fact, given just the few
examples (with documentation) to support my claim, it is inherently evident that there was clearly evidence to support the existence of such weapons
and programs. Were we, as a country, as the sole super-power, in the wake of a colossal terrorist attack upon our own soil, supposed to sit back and
wait for the proliferation of such weapons and programs and their subsequent use prior to taking such action? Such an approach has proven to be
fruitless in dealing with the likes of North Korea and Iran, both of which either possess or are near possession of nuclear capabilities.
Additionally, taking a passive approach to the problem has led to massive proliferation from the likes of Pakistan's own Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan.
Am I to believe that you advocate the reactionary approach to these global problems as opposed to a proactive and preventative approach?
Now, to address the underlying contect of this thread regarding America-bashing, which is evidenct here. We, the United States, are being condemned
for taking the VERY ACTION that has been repeatedly threatened by the international community. A dog's bark is not so effective as it's bite. A
barking dog in the absence of it's ability to bite quickly becomes ignored. In the case of Iraq the international community had been barking for
over a decade with no bite. It was becoming apparent that Saddam was becoming emboldened in the absence of real consequences.
We, the US, are not an imperialist nation. As I have stated numerous times in other threads, we have failed to take both necessary action or
appropriate action in the past and I remain concinved that we, as nation, have learned from those mistakes and strive to make the global community a
safer and prosperous place. As evidenced in my prior post, we have NEVER taken either unilateral or pre-emptive action against another nation without
first consulting with the UN or the global community.
In the absence of strong UN resolutions against either N Korea and Iran, we have NOT threatened military, especially unilateral or pre-emptive, action
against either nation. In fact, we continue to lobby both the UN AND the international community for aid in solving this problem through diplomatic
channels, although the threat of military action remains. That is the potential bite of the barking dog which we hope will persuade these countries
to act in the greater interest of it's people and the international community in general.
Can I now expect you to "Roll over and call yourself naughty"?