Police Threaten Arrest If Citizens Speak Out Against the State-Sanctioned Death of Baby Alfie Evans

a reply to: Kurokage

and don't think for a minute that their concern is over the parental rights of the parents...
if the parents wanted to end the suffering of the child, their reaction would be very much similar.
the only thing that might prevent them from wanting to intervene here in the states would be the idea that their precious tax money might be used for the baby's life support.

Is it true that the U.K. Government did not allow the parents to take their little son to the Vatican hospital, even though the Vatican would pay all expenses? Must have been a rumor. Right?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We habe no stake in your politics. This ismt a political outcry. Its moral.

It's some American groups saying "storm the hospital" and "an AR15 would sort this out", it's also certain people not understanding poor Alfies health problems, and what effect this had on him, and some right wing American groups calling British doctors murders and our idea of healthcare wrong!! Why, because it's different to how America does it!!

originally posted by: carewemust
Is it true that the U.K. Government did not allow the parents to take their little son to the Vatican hospital, even though the Vatican would pay all expenses? Must have been a rumor. Right?

This is the crux of the issue and a response I would like to see our "enlightened" EU friends think.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We habe no stake in your politics. This ismt a political outcry. Its moral.

It's some American groups saying "storm the hospital" and "an AR15 would sort this out", it's also certain people not understanding poor Alfies health problems, and what effect this had on him, and some right wing American groups calling British doctors murders and our idea of healthcare wrong!! Why, because it's different to how America does it!!

false.

Did the UK PREVENT the parents from seeking additional help and advice?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We habe no stake in your politics. This ismt a political outcry. Its moral.

It's some American groups saying "storm the hospital" and "an AR15 would sort this out", it's also certain people not understanding poor Alfies health problems, and what effect this had on him, and some right wing American groups calling British doctors murders and our idea of healthcare wrong!! Why, because it's different to how America does it!!

Oh yes those evil Americans criticizing another country

And what did you just say was so true on the last page

This post

“3. the hospital in rome will put him back onto a breathing machine ( which is why the court case was started becouse he cant breath with out it ),
tso they are gonna turn him into a LAB RAT to test their new drugs out so they can earn millions if they might happen to work even the italian doctors say there is a 90% chance they wont work FACT”

So It cool for you and others to criticize the he Italian doctors of selfishly making money off of Alfie?

a reply to: Arnie123


Some members have no idea what "Degenerative brain disease" is, and don't seem to even understand to the basics of it?? All the Vatican wanted to do was put Alfie on the same type of care he was already receiving at Alder Hey Hospital.

I hope that those in the US who are pushing for a "free" US national health care system are paying close attention to this situation.
This is what happens when the government controls your health care.

a reply to: Grambler

The first quote is correct, but at least put up a correct quote from me, it makes you look incredibly stupid when you try to put word in my mouth and quotes I haven't said!!

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
There is something intrinsically evil in a government being the arbiter of peoples best interest.

I agree, especially when another EU member state was willing to take the cost and responsibility of the child's care.

Did you see the the ranting post above stating "The father was caught 5 times giving mouth to mouth" 'CAUGHT' FFS like he did something criminal! What kind of sick animal criticises a father for giving mouth to mouth to his child who is struggling to breath?

It is tragic that so many fellow Brits have blind faith in a judges decision, 'because it's the judge', so obviously it's the correct ethical decision to make. Oh those nasty Italian medics who would keep the child alive a while longer, yep, they're Italian so what do they know.

Fact is, another EU member state was willing to offer an option which would be perfectly legal under EU law, but the judge said no, the Italian method is wrong, bad Italy, you should do it the way the judge says.

I'm as disgusted by this case as you are. If there had been no offer from Italy then I would accept the decision that UK medics were no longer prepared to maintain life support, but there was another option in an EU regulated healthcare system which was refused.
If the parents wanted to take the child to a witch doctor in Papua New Guinea then I'd understand, but no, a fellow EU member state offering perfectly legal care options was deemed inferior and subordinate to a judges decision.
That is what leaves the foul taste in my mouth.

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We habe no stake in your politics. This ismt a political outcry. Its moral.

It's some American groups saying "storm the hospital" and "an AR15 would sort this out", it's also certain people not understanding poor Alfies health problems, and what effect this had on him, and some right wing American groups calling British doctors murders and our idea of healthcare wrong!! Why, because it's different to how America does it!!

false.

Did the UK PREVENT the parents from seeking additional help and advice?

No they didn't prevent them from doing this, it was the fact that all the other medical practitioners that saw Alfie agreed with his doctors out look.

originally posted by: Kurokage
No they didn't prevent them from doing this, it was the fact that all the other medical practitioners that saw Alfie agreed with his doctors out look.

Yes they did prevent the option of care that Italy provides to it's own citizens.
And not all medics agreed, the Italian doctors (who came over and considered his case) offered a different option.
Italian doctors = bad, UK doctors = good - that is what sickened me.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Grambler

The first quote is correct, but at least put up a correct quote from me, it makes you look incredibly stupid when you try to put word in my mouth and quotes I haven't said!!

I said you responded to that quote sayin “so true”

Are you denying that?

Anyone can go back one page and see you said that

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I agree, especially when another EU member state was willing to take the cost and responsibility of the child's care.

If they had something to offer Alfie I don't doubt he would have been allowed to leave but as far as I'm aware they were just offering more of the same , what point extending the life of a child in a coma when there is no hope for his recovery , modern medicine is good but it can't work miracles which is what I guess the Italians were hoping for.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We habe no stake in your politics. This ismt a political outcry. Its moral.

It's some American groups saying "storm the hospital" and "an AR15 would sort this out", it's also certain people not understanding poor Alfies health problems, and what effect this had on him, and some right wing American groups calling British doctors murders and our idea of healthcare wrong!! Why, because it's different to how America does it!!

Why throw "right wing" into this hodge podge?

Random strangers have opinions. But AR 15's are not political.

Id challenge that the morons in charhe of alfies care didmt know much more than the average American. They swore he would die within minutes (under oath). When that failed they had to save face by with holding food from him until he died "naturally" of starvation.

a reply to: gortex

If that was my child, I would never, ever give up. Miracles happen.

The government had no right to overrule the right of the parents and child to fight for every moment of life and hope.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


The father was the one telling people his son was fine off oxygen, but them had give resuscitation to Alfie to keep him breathing. I think people where pointing out that Alfie wasn't as fine as his father was making out. Alfie wasn't aware of his surroundings and Alfies responses where being exaggerated by his father. (which anyone would do the same to keep hope alive).
I don't have blind faith in the judges opinion. I believe that the care givers around Alfie from Alder Hey Hospital who had looked after Alfie for over a year knew what was best for Alfie. Alfie was dying and to turn off his life support, Alfies doctors will have known that Alfie was struggling to keep going, Italy couldn't do anything else for him.

a reply to: notsure1

Politics, the child's life and the suffering of his parent's has become extremely high profile, there is actually an extremely good chance that those treatment's in Rome would actually retard or even reverse the neurological degeneration but of course for the NHS to so provide this kind of offered treatment for the child would cost money that the Tory government simply have no intention whatsoever of ever putting into the system which in fact they are running into the ground as a method to bring privatization in by the back door as indeed did there proxy New Labour party allies.

Alfie is I am extremely saddened to say just one of a very great many victims' of these evil doer's and there drive for greater private participation in our public services and to that end they are most certainly willing to kill in order to have there way.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

I agree, especially when another EU member state was willing to take the cost and responsibility of the child's care.

If they had something to offer Alfie I don't doubt he would have been allowed to leave but as far as I'm aware they were just offering more of the same , what point extending the life of a child in a coma when there is no hope for his recovery , modern medicine is good but it can't work miracles which is what I guess the Italians were hoping for.

That is for the parents to decide in my opinion. As I said, if they wanted to take him to a witch doctor in Papua New Guinea then I'd agree, but it was a fellow EU state offering EU approved and legal care so I disagree with denying the child the same rights as any other Italian citizen.
Basically the judge is saying that Italy's healthcare system keeping a child alive in such circumstances is wrong.
It is that point which disgusts me, EU approved care denied over a subjective ethical opinion.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Even in America a judge would lilely block taking a kid to a witch doctor in a third world nation.

It makes me feel a bit better to see that there are Brits not happy about this