Police Threaten Arrest If Citizens Speak Out Against the State-Sanctioned Death of Baby Alfie Evans

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: MissPronounce
Then you will notice that even back in February, Justice Hayden identified multiple reasons as to why flying to Italy may not be appropriate.

But he didn't rule against it, so the parents couldn't be forbidden from moving the child to Italy based on that ruling.

The inadmissability decision on the European Courts of Human Rights states that:

The case concerned the family’s argument that the prevention of Alfie’s transfer from Alder Hey Hospital constituted deprivation of liberty and a violation of Article 5 (right to liberty and security).

,%22contentcategory%22:[%22News%22]]]European Court of Human Rights Link

a reply to: MissPronounce
Unfortunately, they do not say why it was inadmissible.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Kurokage

So now the UK government can shut down all opposing views and opinions about the subject, while threatening legal force, because of a few random social media posts? How do we even know those people are real?

This is the world we're living in now, and it's like something you would read in a George Orwell novel.

No it can't. Stop making stuff up.

It can't? Didn't they just fine a girl and sentence her to community service for posting rap lyrics on her own page? Didn't they also do the same for a guy and his dog video on YouTube???? Sorry buddy recent history flies in the face of your denial

That is LITERALLY legal and criminal action for posts on social media, which your denying exists....

You keep saying "people are making stuff up" but you post no rebutals w evidence other than your opinion..... These two cases LITERALLY just happened in the last few months.

Maybe you should do more research

Which has nothing to do with what you claimed.

Now not only are you making stuff up you can't even remember what you made up.

Lol yes it does. The state def DOES arrest people for social media posts

YouTuber arrested UK

Teen charged in UK for rap lyrics

Talk in circles all you want, stick fingers in your ears.... Deny deny deny

But to sit here and say that the UK doesnt take legal and police action against social media posts is a flat out lie

Again the facts are against you

Never claimed they can't or won't take action against social media posts. They can in fairly limited circumstances.


They can't however stop criticism of the government on social media, that was the claim.

a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Have to wonder if it was the judges' child, or any other bastard in a position of power, if nonconventional experimental treatment in another nation would even have been an issue?

Wee guy would have been off to Italy in no time sharp without any intervention from authorities.

Our laws area contributing factor to that poor child's end!

The fact of the matter is our children, just like ourselves, are the property of the government.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

Have to wonder if it was the judges' child, or any other bastard in a position of power, if nonconventional experimental treatment in another nation would even have been an issue?

We guy would have been off to Italy in no time sharp without any intervention from authorities.

Our laws area contributing factor to that poor child's end!

The fact of the matter is our children, just like ourselves, are the property of the government.

There was no alternative treatment on offer so a rather mute point.

a reply to: gortex

Are you aware of a treatment that can reverse brain damage ?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I am. Here are three:

Oxygen therapies: Scientists Have Reversed Brain Damage in a 2-Year-Old Girl Who Drowned in a Swimming Pool

Zolpidem (sleeping drug): The "miracle" treatment that's bringing the brain-damaged back to life

ISRIB (memory-enhancing compound): Memory-enhancing drug reverses effects of traumatic brain injury in mice

Do I know if any of these treatments would have helped Alfie? Nope, I don't. Did the NHS try any of those treatments? I have no idea. But there are treatments available, and it's not the NHS' place to tell anyone they cannot try for themselves.

a reply to: ScepticScot

"They can't however stop criticism of the government on social media."

Not quite yet.

"They" can, and do, however, monitor our criticism, and find numerous other nefarious ways and means of taking action against the average British citizen.

GCHQ specialize in such antics.

The arrest thing is because the thugs outside who support the child and parents were also threatening both verbally and physically the staff of the hospital and any one on the case, this also consisted of death threats attempts to break in to the hospital.

So a bunch of people who didn't like what was going on were going to take matters in to their own hands and probably interfere with the childs care and endanger hospital staff..

Sorry, that isn't the way to do things..

Also, there was and never has been any care offered, the kid at best was going to be a guinea pig for specialists to play with.

Feeling ill yet?

The poor child had ZERO quality of life, the many pictures of the poor child holding on to mum and toys were engineered to look like the child had conscious ability which he didn't, the parents staged the photo's to garner support. Sadly the ultimate test was the removal of breathing help and although the child struggled and appeared to be coping it was a lost cause as the child depended on these things purely to breath, beyond that the child had no ability.

Now I'm a parent of a girl who has had some serious issues including Anorexia, Osteoporosis, mental health issues and other issues caused by the lack of weight. She has made a wonderful recovery from being close to death but she has to live with these other issues.

Lets imagine she was brain damaged at birth, my wife and I would have to have made heartbreaking choices but the one thing we both would have wanted was her to not go through pain and lack of life, the idea of her on a monitor for the rest of her life with zero quality of life would have left us making an unpopular choice but WHAT IS BEST FOR HER...

Its horrible but if you are faced with a clearly non treatable, life destroying illness then think what is best for the child, not just what you believe in or what YOU as a parent would like, think what that little being has in front of it and think wisely..

a reply to: ScepticScot

Well, the poor wee guy nor his parents will ever get the opportunity to discover if there was any alternative treatment now that's for sure.

Why do you imagine he was forced to die in a hospital bed?

Why not at home?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

Well, the poor wee guy nor his parents will ever get the opportunity to discover if there was any alternative treatment now that's for sure.

Why do you imagine he was forced to die in a hospital bed?

Why not at home?

In the real world medical developments don't work like that.

Perhaps because taking the child home was too stressful for him?

As for a cure, if the best in the world all said there was no cure but they would try different things to make the child more comfortable then when does the child stop being thought of and when then does it become a science experiment?

As we the thread writers probably don't have all the facts I think its far too easy to immerse yourself too emotionally in this, if we knew exactly what all the doctors knew than perhaps our thoughts may well be different.

Imagine keeping a relative in a coma simply because there was no cure and you knew they would wake up (if at all) with total brain death with only machines keeping them alive, at what point do you show that person how much you love them by letting their body go and maybe if its your bag you might believe they will have a better after life, that isn't my bag but I believe being human is sometimes letting people go rather than holding on to a shell.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I thought in the real world my kids welfare was my concern and not the gooberments or doctors?

Who is to say what is real or even possible?

More to the point whys it any one's business other than the parents???

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

I thought in the real world my kids welfare was my concern and not the gooberments or doctors?

Who is to say what is real or even possible?

More to the point whys it any one's business other than the parents???

Because parents don't and shouldn't have absolute rights over their children.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes they darn well should because they have there kids best interest at heart.

The government, not so much!

They never gave a rats arse about that kid, they are far more interested in Storm Shadow missiles and Syria really.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes they darn well should because they have there kids best interest at heart.

The government, not so much!

They never gave a rats arse about that kid, they are far more interested in Storm Shadow missiles and Syria really.

Not all parents have their kids best interests at heart.

Many also don't know what the best interests are.

a reply to: ScepticScot

But our oppressive government that likes to meddle in affairs where they have no right to be somehow do know what's best?

Have to admire your level of confidence in totalitarian self-serving money grabbing bastards really. LoL

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

But our oppressive government that likes to meddle in affairs where they have no right to be somehow do know what's best?

Have to admire your level of confidence in totalitarian self-serving money grabbing bastards really.

LoL

The government didn't meddle.

A decision was made in a court of law.

originally posted by: Argyll
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

What treatment were the Italian doctors going to offer that the UK doctors couldn't/wouldn't offer?

Continuing care in an EU regulated and approved health service.
I've said many times I have no problem with UK doctors deciding that 'they' wished to discontinue life support, that's fair enough. The problem I have is a point of principle that another EU country was offering continuing care, legally, and in that health service's opinion not pointless, yet a judge denied freedom of movement over the opinion of Italian doctors.
You may disagree, and it remains a question of ethics so you cannot say I am wrong, as I cannot say you are wrong, but on that specific point refusing continuing care in another EU country, I think the judge was wrong.

Now I've kind of left this thread to be honest, I only replied out of courtesy, my opinion is clearly stated and explained so if anyone disagrees that's cool, but the health service of Italy, indeed the Italian state who issued citizenship to the poor mite agree with me.

a reply to: andy06shake

I thought in the real world my kids welfare was my concern and not the gooberments or doctors?
Who is to say what is real or even possible?
More to the point whys it any one's business other than the parents???

Because sometimes parents get it wrong, sometimes unintentionally and sometimes purposely, and if the parents get it wrong who's going to look after the childrens best interests?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ScepticScot

Yes they darn well should because they have there kids best interest at heart.

The government, not so much!

They never gave a rats arse about that kid, they are far more interested in Storm Shadow missiles and Syria really.

You are missing the point, parents are great parents but when it comes to the clinical care of a child some get caught up in some rather distasteful liberal-onics of forgetting what is best for the child and not what the baying crowd of pro-life supporters want, trust me, I'll presume you have not been in that situation of not knowing if your child will die but we have and the thoughts MUST turn as to what is best for the child and not simply what the parent wants, some parents put their children through utter nightmares to match what they believe in..Think about that please..

I trust a doctor and not a politician and Doctors have been at the heart of this childs case and yet NONE offered the child a future..Perhaps because they could not....Maybe its worth thinking about why a Doctor would not offer a future instead of making this in to a conspiracy of death against that poor child..