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Police Threaten Arrest If Citizens Speak Out Against the State-Sanctioned Death of Baby Alfie Evans

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posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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Alright.

I give up.

You guys win the argument.

As a parent myself, I am sickened by this. But that is emotional.

So I will cede this debate and move on to other things before I get upset.

Have a nice day!





posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
If the parents wanted that for their child, then they should have been free to do so.

I haven't seen anything showing that they were forbidden from doing it.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ArMaP


Only when the medical staff thought it wasn't on the child's best interest to stop keeping him alive did they asked the court for an opinion.


So the medical staff superseded parental rights and authority and the government backed them up.


Parental rights aren't absolute. The reasons should be fairly obvious


What is obvious is that parental rights don't exist.

I'd say that parental rights in the UK are conditional, based on what the government deems appropriate.


You'd say that but the law doesn't agree. Parental rights supercede child rights until the child is of age, unless it is to the detriment of said child.

Which is what happened in this tragic case.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: Kurokage

So now the UK government can shut down all opposing views and opinions about the subject, while threatening legal force, because of a few random social media posts? How do we even know those people are real?

This is the world we're living in now, and it's like something you would read in a George Orwell novel.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Lol, are you saying you don't believe the judge refused to allow continuing care in Italy? Really?

Do you have the court ruling that says that? If you do show it to me, please, as I am able to read.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Kurokage

So now the UK government can shut down all opposing views and opinions about the subject, while threatening legal force, because of a few random social media posts? How do we even know those people are real?

This is the world we're living in now, and it's like something you would read in a George Orwell novel.


No it can't. Stop making stuff up.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Lol, are you saying you don't believe the judge refused to allow continuing care in Italy? Really?

Do you have the court ruling that says that? If you do show it to me, please, as I am able to read.

Will you accept a local newspaper from the city the court was held?
Manchester Evening News


They want treatment to continue and fly him to a hospital in Rome. However Mr Justice Hayden, who oversaw the hearing at the Family Division of the High Court in Manchester, denied the family the right to take Alfie abroad
Or do you think fake news?
The biggest reason this is a story is because alternative care was offered in another EU country but was refused. Why do you not believe that?



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

The "experts" said he would die immediately when taken off life support, but it took 4 days for him to pass. Both President Trump and President Duda of Poland offered to help the parents with the boys treatments, but were denied by the UK government to the point where they used physical force to prevent the family from taking their own child to seek alternative treatments.

But it's okay because the government, doctors and judges are important people and therefore if they say a child must die he must die. On top of all the banning and censorship going on, the UK is becoming satirically authoritarian.

#UKMilgramExperiment


Indeed they are, it is more than just sad to see. Even more sad is that it is already too late to change through non-violent means. The UK government is now empowered and will use violence and force themselves to enforce their "Godhood" status that they now see themselves as, just like you mention. This is also creeping and encroaching as behavior of our US government officials and many other countries in the world following the same pattern.
You can't mock or criticize UK politicians near campaigning time or it's jail. Eventually it will be torture and death, which is already the case in China, and the Chinese leader just recently declared himself Emperor rewriting their own rules..



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:17 PM
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However this case is looked at the parents Tom and Kate have had little say in what happened to their son Alfie. The decision made not only insisted that life support from Alder Hay stop, but also that the parents be unable to seek treatment anywhere else. This was deemed in Alfies best interests. Yet unplugging his life support and letting him slowly weaken over 5 long days is humane and promoting the childs dignity? I have to ask...Could you see the same outcome if the parents were celebrities?



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

The "experts" said he would die immediately when taken off life support, but it took 4 days for him to pass. Both President Trump and President Duda of Poland offered to help the parents with the boys treatments, but were denied by the UK government to the point where they used physical force to prevent the family from taking their own child to seek alternative treatments.

But it's okay because the government, doctors and judges are important people and therefore if they say a child must die he must die. On top of all the banning and censorship going on, the UK is becoming satirically authoritarian.

#UKMilgramExperiment


Indeed they are, it is more than just sad to see. Even more sad is that it is already too late to change through non-violent means. The UK government is now empowered and will use violence and force themselves to enforce their "Godhood" status that they now see themselves as, just like you mention. This is also creeping and encroaching as behavior of our US government officials and many other countries in the world following the same pattern.
You can't mock or criticize UK politicians near campaigning time or it's jail. Eventually it will be torture and death, which is already the case in China, and the Chinese leader just recently declared himself Emperor rewriting their own rules..


Another poster just making stuff up. This site is becoming just pure fiction.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Will you accept a local newspaper from the city the court was held?
Manchester Evening News

Sorry, but I do not accept that, if I am to comment on a court ruling (or something else) I need to read it, I do not like to base my opinions on someone else's description of events.


Or do you think fake news?

I don't follow trends, so I don't think about "news" and "fake news", I prefer facts.


The biggest reason this is a story is because alternative care was offered in another EU country but was refused. Why do you not believe that?

Because I haven't seen any official order against the moving to another hospital and I don't believe everything I see on the Internet.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Kurokage

So now the UK government can shut down all opposing views and opinions about the subject, while threatening legal force, because of a few random social media posts? How do we even know those people are real?

This is the world we're living in now, and it's like something you would read in a George Orwell novel.


No, the goverment can't shut down opposing views, just watch parliment, the opposition do it all the time.

They weren't random social media posts, they were death threats. See what happens, try sending threats to your local childrens Hospital??



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
You can't mock or criticize UK politicians near campaigning time or it's jail.

Yes we can, I criticise my MP on Twitter and Facebook regularly. I've called him a warmonger, heartless, soulless, someone with the morals of a Victorian mill owner, shameless, bereft of compassion, and many other things.

What I cannot legally do is promote violence towards him or threaten it from myself, I can however say things like "I would shed no tears if you dropped dead tomorrow" and similar.
I don't find the law to be particularly restrictive to be honest.
edit on 28-4-2018 by CornishCeltGuy because: spelling, I'm a spelling nazi to myself, but not to others, bit like an OCD



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: ArMaP

Oh, okay, the child clearly wasn't denied travel to Italy for continuing care then [/sarcasm]



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: ArMaP

Do you have the court ruling that says that? If you do show it to me, please, as I am able to read.


So you think Tom and Kate wanted to move him ...and then just didnt....for no reason. Do you think they appealed multiple times simply for something to do? Facepalm



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
You can't mock or criticize UK politicians near campaigning time or it's jail.

Yes we can, I criticise my MP on Twitter and Facebook regularly. I've called him a warmonger, heartless, souless, someone with the morals of a Victorian mill owner, shameless, bereft of compassion, and many other things.

What I cannot legally do is promote violence towards him or threaten it from myself, I can however say things like "I would shed no tears if you dropped dead tomorrow" and similar.
I don't find the law to be particularly restrictive to be honest.


Well that's good news at least, although it isn't helping much. I remember a couple years ago hearing about people being punished and threatened by UK politicians if they criticized them during election times, which must have been fake news.

On another note for a different poster, the more tyranny people allow to happen, the more people will deny it is happening to them.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:43 PM
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This is what you get with "socialized (universal) healthcare". Pulling "the plug" becomes the best cost saving measure for all the "Investors" (taxpayer). It's the "social" thing to do. That old line?... "The good of the many, outway the needs of the few"."Socialism" creates weakness in society. You give "Government" the power to do? You also give them the power to pull the plug and be lazy. They are getting "paid" to give the kid a life. Not to find "reasons" he should die. They should've refused "service" to begin with if they were going to crap out halfway through the job/mission. This kid/child is a hero! Defying all "medical" not an "exact science" hospital form/waver, every hospital makes you sign before "treatment". These "educated" "Doctors" need to put up, or shut up until the end. Try and/or DO! Or fail, trying!
edit on 28-4-2018 by murphy22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:45 PM
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originally posted by: murphy22
This is what you get with "socialized (universal) healthcare". Pulling "the plug" becomes the best cost saving measure for all the "Investors" (taxpayer). It's the "social" thing to do. That old line?... "The good of the many, outway the needs of the few"."Socialism" creates weakness in society. You give "Government" the power to do? You also give them the power to pull the plug and be lazy. They are getting "paid" to give the kid a life. Not to find "reasons" he should die. They should've refused "service" to begin with if they were going to crap out halfway through the job/mission.


Completely wrong on every level.

It is nothing to do with cost (unlike if it had been in the US). The decision made by the courts (not the NHS or the government) was based on what's best for the child.



posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
You can't mock or criticize UK politicians near campaigning time or it's jail.

Yes we can, I criticise my MP on Twitter and Facebook regularly. I've called him a warmonger, heartless, soulless, someone with the morals of a Victorian mill owner, shameless, bereft of compassion, and many other things.




posted on Apr, 28 2018 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy

If I am suppose to comment on an official document I need to read that document, otherwise I will only comment on someone else's version of what the document says.

As far as I have see after a few searches there were two court rulings denying two appeals, but I can't find anywhere what ruling they were appealing against. If it was the one for which you provided the link, that one doesn't forbid them to move the child to another hospital.




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