Why The Use Of Online DNA Testing May Not Be The Smartest Thing to Do.

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: Blaine91555
I bet every baby that’s born is having it’s DNA collected

It would not surprise me if that becomes commonplace.

originally posted by: violet
I can’t see cut hair having DNA. DNA would only be in the hair follicle (bulb) pulled from the head. You can test for toxins in cut hair, like if a victim was poisoned.

I couldn't answer that question, when I refused and a snatch squad came from Plymouth all riot geared up to the police station I was held in, they forced me to the floor face down while I felt my hair being pulled as they held me down.
Maybe they swabbed my skin, who knows, I had 5 or 6 dudes holding me down as I struggled.
I only refused as a point of principle because they were going to release me with no charges, I was innocent of any crime.

The local cops were understanding about my point of principle and gave me plenty of chances to change my mind before the snatch squad arrived. They weren't interested in fighting with me, just going through the process...which involved calling dudes from a city miles away who didn't give a # about forcibly taking my DNA.
They come all riot geared up, helmuts, visors, body armour, it was a short struggle and a few bruises later they got my DNA through whatever means as my face was in the floor.

I won the war in my head though, they took it from me, I didn't give it to them.
But even though released without charge I remain on the national police database now...I just fought a valiant resistance on principle.

a reply to: saint4God
A possible scenario.
You dated a girl, was invited to her house. You two played around a bit. Things got a bit heavy and before there was actually penetration she asked you to stop. You did and left. She goes out with some friends. Gets slipped a date rape drug, Is raped by another guy that is careful and uses precautions.

The girl doesn't remember who she was with and can't remember the details of what happened. Just awakens to find herself in a strange hotel room undressed. A sexual assault kit is done. Your DNA is found on her body. Even if you are found not guilty in a court of law, your DNA is in CODIS and you are associated with a crime you did not commit.

Accusations based on DNA evidence can be very erroneous. Presence of DNA does not necessarily make a person guilty, but it can be used to make one a suspect.

In an age where innocent until proven guilty has gone the way of the horse and buggy, Indiscriminate and cavalier surrender of your DNA I don't believe to be prudent.

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: Blaine91555
I bet every baby that’s born is having it’s DNA collected

I recall reports from a good ten years ago, during Dubya, of that already going on.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
No. Dexter is too extreme.

Put me between Bones and SVU.

:

Then what are you going to do about all the ones that slip thru the cracks?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I am an examiner and collector, not the judge, jury, or the prosecutor.

As far as evidentiary evidence goes, lack of evidence does not mean there was no crime. Unfortunately, presence of evidence does not necessarily mean that there was a crime. That is why a case that based on evidentiary evidence alone can lead to false conclusions.

It's not even terribly accurate. The standards used for conviction based on DNA matching are well under 1:1,000,000 in accuracy. That means that you might have 9 matches to your DNA on a legally relevant basis living in your own city (if you live in NYC). Some criminal databases have matched multiple people to the same DNA, and prosecutors really don't care as long as it gets them another win...

Multiple DNA matches

originally posted by: TonyBravada
It's not even terribly accurate. The standards used for conviction based on DNA matching are well under 1:1,000,000 in accuracy. That means that you might have 9 matches to your DNA on a legally relevant basis living in your own city (if you live in NYC). Some criminal databases have matched multiple people to the same DNA, and prosecutors really don't care as long as it gets them another win...

Multiple DNA matches

It is accurate in the UK when people I know have been convicted of historic crimes after being matched on the police DNA database. I know 4 who have all admitted to me they did it and were caught solely because after being arrested for something else for the first time, all their previous flagged up on the database.

EDIT
For clarity, arrests for their first time after DNA samples became mandatory on arrest and custody. Once on the system that's it here.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

But if you give it up, then how are you going tofeed your addiction to stalk prey, pounce on them, and eventually chop them up?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

But if you give it up, then how are you going tofeed your addiction to stalk prey, pounce on them, and eventually chop them up?

I can't that question because I don't understand it.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

that headline should go without saying. Why the f do any people trust any company anymore? I wouldn't give my life code to some company i know nothing about.

Im too paranoid to send in mine, but my dad and sis did theirs. Armenian, Italian, German, Albanian, Jewish, African

Can you tell?

originally posted by: violet
a reply to: Blaine91555
I bet every baby that’s born is having it’s DNA collected

Would not doubt it. After all, the hospital my kids were born at presented new parents with sealed DNA samples for IDing if it ever came to that (like IDing remains, or an amnesiac Jane/John Doe, etc)

Still have those samples locked in a fireproof safe. Would rather have them than not if the worst ever did happen. I'm not sure if it's an opt-in/out thing down there (FL) or not, but people should be given the choice of being given samples to hold on to. Whether or not it's already in a sooper seekrit DNA database.

Edit: My mother sent hers in, and was greatly disappointed to find it just confirmed the genealogy research -- predominantly Scandinavian, Russian & Irish descent with some Eastern & Central European in there. The only new info was a very tiny minority percentage of "Red Sea", whatever the hell that means. Arab or Hebrew, I guess.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

You don't say!
Hoo Haa!
S&F

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Government probably gets your DNA when your born,otherwise the government would stop them,too many paranoid people with skeletons in closet

a reply to: Blaine91555

Cloning was banned in the U.S.
at one point.
Does that go for subtle genetic alteration?

I am not certain.

I believe the results are walking among'st
the rest of us right now.

The results of these experiments require a
long term conclusion.

From what I can gather currently,
sociopathy is on the rise.

Perfect promises help sales.
Perfect results have yet to be seen.

S&F Again

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: rickymouse

I'm sure that may be the case for some, and if it suits you and your family I'm all for you doing it. To me personally, the value of leverage in our society is greater than the benefit it would provide me. Even those who seem benevolent want something out life, climbing ladders takes more than just a physical action.

That being said if somebody high enough wants to get to you or use you then any resistance would be futile anyway.

I expected to find that my oldest daughter by my ex was not mine. We were trying to have a kid and I had testing done. After the baby was born the doctor told me and the ex that the baby could not be mine, according to the test I could not have kids. When we got the DNA done, my daughter was under me as my kid. Kind of weird, I guess those tests to test a guy can be way wrong. I told the doctor that day I wanted my oldest daughter listed as my kid on the certificate.

When I had my second daughter with my present wife, I was skeptical it was mine too, but told both daughters that no matter what, they would both be my daughters. My second daughter was there as my kid too. How relieving it is to know that I have two real daughters. But it would not make any difference to me anyway, I still considered them my kids. My oldest daughter knew for many years about what the doctor said, my ex actually talked me into giving her up for adoption but she still came to live with us when she was a teen anyway, they could not get along. So the courts made her send her to me or they would have taken her away since I was the supposed biological father. Miracles never cease to impress me.

I would be more concerned with the ability for one to take DNA from the database and synthesize it, and use it to frame someone for a crime with supported DNA evidence. After all, it's possible.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.extremetech.com...

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

We kinda had this conversation when 23 and Me came out. Uh, big data and machine learning algorithms are real (most call it “AI” which is a shame because it is not). Anyway, yeah, knowledge is money so give data, which can be turned into knowledge, away for free!

no learn the pimp game dude... its not free.. you get people to pay for their own servitude lol. I give you -2 pimp hands and 1+ hearts.

actually Im so jaded I don't really care. I can't affect enough of you... So I might test my dna personally. actually where ive worked including the Army and DHS.. I doubt Im unknown.

but I hope most people are.

You will all be network nodes at some point
lols.

you already know.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

It really doesn't matter.

All you have to have is a relative do a DNA test and it'll be guilt/medical condition by association.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
Part of my job is to collect evidentiary evidence for forensic purposes. The collection of DNA that will be entered into CODIS is something that I do not take lightly. I realize the importance of the evidence I collect, for the innocent, as well as the guilty. I also realize that DNA information in the wrong hands could be your worse nightmare.

The United States national DNA database is called Combined DNA Index System (CODIS). It is maintained at three levels: national, state and local. ... As of March 2011, 361,176 forensic profiles and 9,404,747 offender profiles have been accumulated, making it the largest DNA database in the world.

en.wikipedia.org...

While there are many that think the way they were able to catch a serial killer, through the use of familial DNA, is a testimony to the power and the importance of new technology in our lives, and that it is a wonderful thing, I think it is something that should give us all pause, and that we should think really hard about not just the potential, but to all the places it could ultimately lead.

I know there are many that will think that if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about. For those, I would ask them to think about how DNA evidence can be manipulated, how long it can last, and how it can be used against even those that are innocent.

I think this is more than a slippery slope. This is a cliff that many innocent people may find themselves at the precipice.

Golden State Killer Caught By the Use of Genealogy. DNA

THank you for this. You would be providing a valued service to the ATS community if you could see your way to write and or post other articles on this theme.

The claim that if we have done nothing wrong is deliberately deceptive and is designed to forestall further resisitance to opressive laws.

The deception being an inference that its going us who determines whether or not we have done anything wrong or have anything to hide.

The reality is that the first person to determine if we have done something wrong or not is someone sitting in front of a computer screen somewhere, anywhere, in the world.

The second person who will determeine whether or not we have done something wrong or not, will be two cops in our face at our front door.

the third person will be magistrate or judge and the forth person will be us.