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The Serious 9/11 Arguments Compilation.

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posted on Oct, 13 2018 @ 07:17 AM
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neutronflux Have you read this report? ws680.nist.gov...

NIST states that no fires were observed on the lower floors prior to 1.30pm.

That debunks the Skeptics claims fires burned uncontrollably for seven hours.

Why did it take over 2 hours + for fires to break out on the lower floors?

It clear as day the fires were started delibaretly on the eastside. All the photos and video is of fires after 2pm (eastside)




posted on Oct, 13 2018 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: LaBTop

Lets look at the picture



Have YOU ever been on a building site up on a mast or actually did any work or testing on the Facade of a structure, 4 floors of panels still more or less conected so the building FELL away from that elevation thats why they are lower panels and thats why they are against the debris pile.

We have all seen many thread and KNOW that you have not a clue what to look for in images


A few quotes from firemen etc at the scene


As for Building 7 and the evidence for Controlled Demolition, let's review the evidence...

What we do have for sure.

1) Fireman saying there was "a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors." "I would say it was probably about a third of it".

2) A laymen officer the fireman was standing next to said, "that building doesn’t look straight." He then says "It didn’t look right".

3) They put a transit on it and afterward were "pretty sure she was going to collapse."

4) They "saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13".

5) Photographic evidence of a fire directly under the penthouse which collapsed first.

6) The penthouse fell first, followed by the rest of the building shortly after.

7) The collapse happened from the bottom.


Here a link to a video of the elevation not seen on most videos

WTC 7

I spoke to STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS on a daily basis due to my job and spent many a day on site testing structural elements for engineers, not ONE thought it was a demoltion.

People like you resort to the really well worn CONSPIRACY CLICHES when it comes to events like this ie people won't tell the truth because of fear of losing their job/life


Building codes where changed, thermal loadings due to fire were looked at more closley after these events things that people like you don't understand or have a clue about.

Before this event thermal loading wasn't designed / tested for in the same manor as stuctural and wind loads basic assumptions where made that was it.


Professor Barbara Lane, leader of Arup’s fire engineering practice says this approach is being applied globally. “An enormous amount of work has been done with computational analysis to model what’s likely to happen in a fire,” she says, adding that things are totally different from 10 years ago.


More here

WTC 10 Years on

There are hundreds of references on the net to the changes due to this, things that armchair expert keyboard warriors like YOU wouldn't hear about to well after they have been proposed.


Awesome post that keeps getting pushed back by posts based on falsehoods and no evidence of CD after 17 years. The trolls only want to talk about NIST while ignoring the other studies that conclude fire related collapse..... then after they prove they will post any truth movement propagana.... and have no decrement of credible science....



posted on Oct, 13 2018 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: Jesushere




Why did it take over 2 hours + for fires to break out on the lower floors


Another falsehood...….

FDNY pulled their men out of WTC 7 shortly after noon - they were inside assessing building damage

Found that standpipes supplying water were dry and fires spreading in building

Reported there were fires on 13 floors of WTC 7

Incident commanders made decision that conditions were too dangerous with fire spreading and no means to fight them



posted on Oct, 13 2018 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: Jesushere

If there was planted charges at the WTC, you wouldn’t be splitting hairs over reports. You would be citing the video, audio, and seismic evidence. Not ignoring them.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 05:42 AM
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Any reader may use my text from this same post (click), to stop the relentless posting of misinformation by OS trusters :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

SHOW UP the BUCKLED WTC STEEL from WTC1, 2 and 7 on fire and their collapse initiation floors, or SHUT UP!

Why? THIS IS WHY : CLICK HERE




edit on 14/10/18 by LaBTop because: Linked to the reasoning.

edit on 14/10/18 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by: firerescue
A reply to: Jesushere




Why did it take over 2 hours + for fires to break out on the lower floors


Another falsehood...….

FDNY pulled their men out of WTC 7 shortly after noon - they were inside assessing building damage

Found that standpipes supplying water were dry and fires spreading in building

Reported there were fires on 13 floors of WTC 7

Incident commanders made decision that conditions were too dangerous with fire spreading and no means to fight them



Just your opinion ?
Or can you also provide a link, just as Jesushere did.?
Otherwise the reader is apparently expected to just take your word for it.

I once (15 years ago or so) posted that snippet about a fireman that checked out all rooms at the WTC7 fifth to seventh floor, after WTC1 collapsed at 10:28:31. He did not find any fires, nor damage in the rooms on the southern facade side.
edit on 14/10/18 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by: neutronflux
A reply to: Jesushere

If there was (were) planted charges at the WTC, you wouldn’t be splitting hairs over reports. You would be citing the video, audio, and seismic evidence. Not ignoring them (it).


This one deserves a Pull it zer Price....the Mockingbird one.

For completely ignoring tons of evidence posted in this thread alone for video, audio, and seismic evidence. With all the links to it....don't wanting to read and view it, is definitely no excuse here.
And you never took the time to read my signature links in every post of mine, there below ?
edit on 14/10/18 by LaBTop because: Forgot the pesky details.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:31 AM
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The following three posts were intended to go as my opening post (OP) in this thread, sadly I could not find the link anymore at that time. Now I have.
It is the ideal lead, to go by, when OS trusters and doubters want to address this huge list of Serious 9/11 Arguments.

It would be a lot better, if some friendly moderator would leave these 3 posts here too, and puts them also in my OP.
Thanks in advance.! (Just add then a small guide to this post, so new readers will understand then that in effect, it was posted much later on in this thread)

Now, if you, the rookie 9/11 researcher, are looking for snippets of 9/11 Truth, and don't know where to find it, it's all here.
In Encyclopedic form, you can choose any 9/11 subject, from the three Index lists :

Free duplication and distribution of all DVDs by Massimo Mazzucco is encouraged.
See his fully indexed EXCELLENT 5 hrs long film in 3 parts on one web page, go to :
www.luogocomune.net...

"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (1/3) 1:55:06
www.youtube.com...



INDEX for DVD 1

INTRODUCTION

0.01:02 - 12 parallels between Pearl
Harbor and September 11
0.14:10 - The debate: main issues

PART 1 - AIR DEFENSE

0.14:55 - Where are the interceptors?
0.16:12 - The "incompetence theory"
(radars, transponders)
0.22:00 - The military drills
0.29:40 - Specific warnings
0.33:08 - The chain of command
0.38:10 - Promotions, not punishments
0.39:50 - The Mineta case
0.47:38 - Debunkers: "Mineta was mistaken"
0.53:18 - The Mineta case - A summary

PART 2 - THE HIJACKERS

0.57:15 - "Piss-poor student pilots"
0.59:38 - Marwan al-Sheikki (UA175)
1.01:52 - Ziad Jarrah (UA93)
1.03:06 - Hani Hanjour (AA77)
1.04:00 - The debunkers' positions
1.06:00 - 2 simulations of the Pentagon attack
1.13:10 - Someone knew?
1.16:40 - Airport security cameras
1.20.15 - The missing black boxes

PART 3 - THE AIRPLANES

1.26:50 - Passenger planes or military drones?
1.28:20 - Impossible speeds
1.37:30 - What happened to the passengers?
1.38:35 - The cellphone calls
1.48:30 - The debunkers' position
1.50:38 - If not from the planes, from where?



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:34 AM
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"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (2/3) 1:30:23
www.youtube.com...


INDEX for DVD 2

PART 4 - THE PENTAGON

0.02:35 - Downed light poles
0.03:30 - The missing plane
0.04:30 - The official version
0.05:24 - Problems with the official version (wing, ailerons, tail, engines)
0.13:09 - The mystery hole
0.14:10 - The debunkers' explanations
0.16:20 - Conclusions on damage analysis
0.17:00 - The missing tapes
0.18:30 - Security video analysis
0.23.40 - Pentagon summary

PART 5 - FLIGHT 93

0.24.15 - The empty hole
0.28.00 - The debunkers' explanations
0.33:00 - Plane crash or bomb explosion?
0.34:50 - The debris field
0.37.20 - The shootdown hypothesis
0.38:50 - The small white plane
0.41:40 - "Let's roll"
0.44:25 - Summary of Flight 93

PART 6 - THE TWIN TOWERS

0.45:10 - Introduction
0.47:45 - The Towers' small dirty secret
0.53:10 - Larry Silverstein
0.56:15 - NIST vs. Architects & Engineers
0.58:00 - Robust or fragile buildings?
1.04:45 - The initial collapse - Explanation #1
1.05:45 - The initial collapse - Explanation #2
1.07:35 - Problems with the official explanation
1.18:00 - The full collapse - No official explanation
1.18:50 - Law of physics violated
1.20:50 - The Twin Towers and freefall
1.27:50 - Debunkers' response to A&E



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:36 AM
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"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (3/3) 1:28:09
www.youtube.com...


INDEX for DVD 3

( -Twin Towers continued- )

0.00:20 - The hypothesis of controlled demolitions
0.01:08 - Debunkers: "Impossible to place explosives"
0.07:34 - Explosions in the Twin Towers (witnesses)
0.15:00 - "Fuel in elevators shafts" theory
0.23:25 - Debunkers: "Explosions not recorded by tv cameras"
0.30:26 - Squibs
0.33:00 - Explosive force (montage)
0.35:00 - Ejecta
0.38:00 - Diagonal cuts Kevin McPadden (38:50)
Kevin : 8 o'clock at night, on the 11th, tons and tons of beams that were cut, no ironworkers to do work..!
0.40:15 - What happened to the hat trusses?
0.42:20 - Extreme temperatures Up to 2800 F !!!
0.45:30 - Debunkers' explanations
0.46:45 - Twisted and mangled beams
0.47:40 - Molten steel
0.51:05 - Molten concrete
0.53:50 - Pulverization
0.57:40 - Victims vaporized
1.02:20 - Conclusion on the Twin Towers

PART 7 - BUILDING 7

1.05:10 - Introduction
1.06:35 - Official version by NIST
1.09:36 - Collapse computer simulation
1.11:00 - Fire computer simulation NIST's fire simulation is nullified by their own 4 o'clock pictures that show that the fires had already disappeared at the northeastern row of windows, while their 4 o'clock NE-fire simulation shows RAGING fires all over the whole NE region...! Same goes for their collapse simulation. They categorically deny anyone to see the data they based their flimsy simulation on..!
And that's why the Prof. Hulsley et al team is preparing their own simulation, using also ABAQUS and another latest version computer program, to calculate the real events that caused the symmetrical descent of WTC7. They say that their simulation will mimic the real one.
Unlike the NIST ones, which by far did not mimic the real time WTC7 collapse videos..!!!
1.12:20 - Debunkers: "Building 7 weaker"
1.14:25 - Foreknowledge 1:17:15
""We heard this sound that sounded like a clap of thunder"' ( = Thermobaric Bomb - a TB.! ) ""... turned around - we were shocked to see that the building was, Ahh, well it looked like there was a shock-wave ripping through the building and the windows all busted out... it was horrifying... about a second later the bottom floor caved out and, Ahh, the building followed after that"''
1:17:50 Kevin McPadden heard a countdown, moments before the building collapsed. He was stationed at WTC7, waiting on orders from the Red Cross representative, and they were asking the Red Cross representative : What's going on, what's going on, and all the time he had his hand over the radio, while he was getting a countdown, and then he was just like.. the last three seconds he takes his hands off, and you hear : Three, Two, One, and he had this all heartbroken face and he said : Just run for your life .! : "" There was about a second or two after the countdown ended, that Eh, you started hearing the explosions. Now, we're talking about bombs, because you, you know, heard like -BahBammm-, you know, like it was a little explosion and then the force...and then, Booom, booom,booom, booom, booom ,booom, booom. That was the building coming down.""
1.19:00 - Symmetry
1.20:00 - Free-fall NIST admitted WTC7 was in Free Fall Acceleration for more than one THIRD of its global collapse..!
Shyam Sunder (NIST Lead Investigator) : ""Free fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it""



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:39 AM
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EPILOGUE DVD 3

1.22:30 - John McCain
1.24:33 - The last word

files.abovetopsecret.com...



1:24:44 David Miller, first responder Ground Zero NY. His short and very moving speech in 2006 :
1:25:52 ""We are still dying from 9/11""
1:26:15 David Miller :
""WE WERE ALSO KILLED ON 9/11...AVENGE US...!""

He died December 2010.....and that's one of the many reasons I am relentlessly confronting all these 9/11 false prophets, here and elsewhere.
And for Bobby McElvaine's father, who keeps fighting against the bastards that did this.
And for all the online friends, I lost or who gave up, during these long years of fighting those 9/11 Planners their despicable, dirty, online and media propaganda campaigns. It has been a long, uphill fighting endeavor. The final fight is in sight by now.

files.abovetopsecret.com...



files.abovetopsecret.com...



files.abovetopsecret.com...



9/11 : NEVER GIVE UP - NEVER FORGIVE - NEVER FORGET !



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 08:48 AM
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www.luogocomune.net...
Here you can download the "Pentagon video analysis" in ZIP form, by digital expert P.P. Murru (in Italian) :
download.luogocomune.net...
Use f.ex WinRAR or 7ZIP to get the 95 pages of the original PDF file.

It's a VERY sophisticated and thorough video analysis of the two videos shot by DoD security camera boots that were situated at the entrance of the Northern Parking lot of the Pentagon Headquarters in Washington, during the last moments of flight 77, a B757-200, nearing and then hitting the Pentagon's west wall on 9/11/2001.
It's LOADED with crisp photos and diagrams, and accompanying explanatory texts, however in Italian.
Use Google Translate; Italian to English(US) : translate.google.com.../en/

It is the most comprehensive and clear analysis of those two Pentagon parking boot its security cameras, their video frames, EVER to be found.
He proves without doubt, that the two frames 23 (736) from Cam1 and Cam2 were modified and thus falsified. See PDF page 22 and 31.
Those are the ONLY ones you could see a presumed plane or plane part in.
Those "plane parts"were INSERTED, no doubt about that, after reading Mr Murru's detailed expertise :

files.abovetopsecret.com...




The DoD Video Analysis & Fake Test Procedure
Release version 1.3, October 2006. PDF : 95 pages. By Pier Paolo Murru.


8) CONCLUSIONE
Se esiste anche una sola minima compatibilità fra il frame 736-Cam1 e la rappresentazione del B757-
200 questo da ancor più valore all’incoerenza con lo stesso fotogramma della Cam2 che invece non
mostra assolutamente niente di compatibile ne con il B757-200 ne con tutto il contesto tecnico che ha
reso questi fotogrammi. Se ora riponiamo queste ultime analisi all’interno dell’intero rapporto fra le due
camere lo scenario si presenta a dir poco confuso e assolutamente non attendibile da qualsivoglia punto
di vista. Se sulla Cam1 non v’è alcuna evidenza ma una minima compatibilità (non di certo con un B757
ma con un emitter più piccolo), sulla Cam2 mancano etrambe e l’incompatibilità si presenta sia sul fronte
della rappresentazione dell’aereo sia sulla coerenza con il sistema che ha generato la sequenza video.
Svariate decine di variabili che sono state sempre assolutamente identiche e compatibili fra centinaia
di coppie di fotogrammi cessano di esserlo all’interno di una sola coppia di fotogrammi generando un
evidente dimostrazione di manipolazione/omissione. Si tratta guardacaso dei fotogrammi dove avrebbe
dovuto presentarsi l’aereo. In definitiva i due video non sono in grado di dimostrare nulla se non la loro
intrinseca tendenza a nascondere l’emitter in due modi totalmente differenti.
Ci tengo a precisare che questo rapporto è il frutto di analisi poste su tutti i fotogrammi delle due sequenze.
Ho analizzato frame by frame centinaia di fotogrammi, passandoli alla “lente di ingrandimento” sotto
diversi punti di vista. Per quanto possano apparire insignificanti questi video per la loro bassa qualità
e risoluzione sono da considerarsi ad oggi l’unica prova filmata di uno schianto di B757-200 portata
alla luce dal DoD dal Settembre 2001. Sono quindi da prendere in seria considerazione le analisi poste
sulle sequenze per l’importanza che gli stessi video hanno avuto all’interno della versione ufficiale e più
recentemente nel processo contro Zacarias Moussaoui.

Google Translate (With minor corrections by me, it's still not a fluent translation, any fluent Italian member taker? ) :

8) CONCLUSION
If there is even only a minimal compatibility between the 736-Cam1 frame and the B757-200 representation, then this gives even more value to the inconsistency with the same 736-Cam2 frame that instead doesn't show absolutely nothing compatible with the B757-200 and with all the technical context with which these frames have been made . If we now put these last analyzes into the whole relationship between the two camera scenarios, which is presented, then to say the least, it's confusing and absolutely unreliable from any point of view.
If on the Cam1 frame there is no evidence but only a minimum compatibility (certainly not with a B757 but with a much smaller machine), on the Cam2 frame they are lacking both, and the incompatibility presents itself both on the front part of the aircraft's representation, and also on the coherence with the system that generated the video sequence.
Several dozens of variables have all the time been absolutely identical and compatible among hundreds of frame pairs, except within a single pair of frames, thus generating an evident demonstration of manipulation / omission.
It is a matter of the frames where the plane would have been able to show up . Ultimately the two videos are not able to prove anything but their intrinsic tendency to hide the device in two totally different ways.

I would like to point out that this report is the result of analysis on all the frames of the two sequences.
I analyzed frame by frame hundreds of frames, passing them to the "magnifying glass" under different points of view. Although these videos may appear insignificant due to their low quality and resolution, they are to be considered today the only filmed testimony of a crash of a B757-200 in the light of the DoD scope since September 2001. Therefore, the analyzes carried out must be taken into serious consideration regarding the sequences, due to the importance that the videos themselves had, within the official version and more recently in the trial against Zacarias Moussaoui.


In other, clearer words, the bastards failed MAJESTICALLY in Hollywooding us all....!



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 01:23 PM
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Well, pfttt, let's again work on all the disinfo, sidestepping of clear evidence, and full blown knowingly lying, down to each page bottom. I'll start at the top of page 62 again :


Originally posted by: neutronflux
A reply to: LaBTop

Sad you are right right down delusional... ( LT : Insults, insults, watch out for the rules here.. )

""LT : And for sure all evidence for cutting demolition was in the first three days already disappeared. By the small group of fake "first respondents", especially hired for that task, from one of your beloved Agencies.""

Another blatant falsehood. How from a pile that took 3 months of heavy equipment to move? How would it be possible to get through the edges of the debris field to work the heart of the collapse and remove evidence. From 1,000,000 tons of rubble supposedly cut floor by floor to achieve the witnessed collapse rates. The areas of collapse initiation buried under at least 11 and 29 floors of rubble.
(LT : Easy. Remove the lighter cut facade evidence, but first make a few photos with an iron-worker with a gas tank and acetylene torch beneath the, in the initiation, already CUT core and perimeter stumps. Instant whitewash of that problem. ""We offered you the reason, so believe us or not, we don't care."" Typical CIA textbook operation mode)

From a smoldering pile that had to be constantly sprayed and cooled with water to allow workers to move and remove debris.
(LT : Only a few places that were FLIR photographed by that NASA plane every day, were that hot. It rained extremely hard the next day.... )

Thanks for your willingness to repeat any truth movement lie.
(LT : what a comical remark, coming from such an obsessive dis-info poster.... )


To explain this, is an easy one, you clearly don't understand the utterly importance from the total lack of any PRESERVED buckled core column steel from collapse initiation floors of all three WTC towers, by first FEMA, then The 9/11 Commission and last but not least, the NIST.

They HAVE NOT ONE PIECE of that for their collapse theories, so utterly important core column and facade column buckled steel, from the three collapse initiation floors in all three towers.
They have clearly not found ANY of that buckled steel from initiation floors, and thus they have removed ANY explosively CUT STEEL that they, logically thinking, MUST have found, to be able to just begin to explain the collapses, since either one of these steel pieces HAD to be found, to be able to solidly explain to us, the logical thinking ones, how on earth those THREE towers otherwise could have collapsed, the way we saw it ALL happen in real time :

SHOW UP the BUCKLED WTC STEEL from WTC1, 2 and 7, from all three their on fire and collapse initiation floors, or SHUT UP! (Click that text for the post link, with its other link in it, to get to the post with the explicit explanation)

Because, if you can't offer that buckled steel evidence, AND YOU CAN'T, all these three reports can be thrown immediately in the dust bins they belong in.

And if you hadn't read this snippet yet, here it is, to spill more salt in your OS wounds :
www.abovetopsecret.com...


0.38:00 - Diagonal cuts. Kevin McPadden (0:38:50)
Kevin : 8 o'clock at night, on the 11th, tons and tons of beams that were CUT, NO iron-workers to do work..!


I'll spell it out for you : He saw already at 20:00 hr in the evening of 9/11/2001, just two hours and forty minutes after WTC7 collapsed at 17:20 hr, a whole wood of CUT steel beams....CAPICE ?
There were no welders/cutters with acetylene cutting flask anywhere to see in that short time after the last collapse.

But they had readily at their hands, HUNDREDS of BRAND-NEW dump-trucks, filmed while turning a corner at a crossroads near Ground ZERO, in the dark of the evening, to start hauling away the WTC7 EVIDENCE STEEL.! All equipped with GPS positioning soft and hardware, to be sure that incriminating evidence was not handed over to eventual doubting citizens. Which was in any case not very logical, in those very first days and weeks, when all of the USA's citizenry was set in Murder some Muslims Mode by those endless TV main channel news repeats.

And they cordoned the whole Ground Zero grounds off, based on their lie, that it was a criminal investigation matter ....then these damn lying FBI officials should have ordered to preserve any identifiable piece of steel from the collapse initiation floors, following their OWN iron clad protocols.
Which they NEVER did. How much more criminal can such an investigation become, any more than that.? Against EVERY protocol in every book about fenced-off criminal investigation grounds.
It was however of course a criminal de-escalation site, full of officials, assisting official criminals higher up, who's only task was, to stop any "looting" of evidence. Guess what evidence they meant...incriminating evidence, against their false flag operations on 9/11, of course.

Thus, I task you to find us any kind of official report with photos of buckled steel from those essential regions I described already too many times to OS trusting members here, who can play dumb on these kinds of evidence, but can play smart on subjects that were already hundreds of times proven to every reader here to be facts, but get heralded as their own smart conclusions.
And I demand descriptions and markers on the steel, and descriptions of the placement of that steel in the debris pile, also with photographs and accompanying texts.

I can predict, that not any of you, OS trusters, will ever find such evidence.
Why? Because we would have been flooded with it, 15 years ago already.!
Which would have stopped EVERY 9/11 opposition in its tracks.!
Which absence of evidence thus clearly indicates, that all those hundreds of millions spend on official 9/11 investigations, were simply total false flag operations.

The real professionals in the FBI and in the Engineering world must have realized that, shortly after the first sifting, which showed-up no buckled steel at all from the only interesting parts of the piles. Dumped at the periphery of the piles, since all evidential peripheral steel was mushroomed out to the furthest explosive circles. And evidential core columns were sinking down into their footprints, only leaving their explosively diagonally cut stumps behind. Which Kevin McPadden saw that 9/11 night at 20:00 hr, in abundance.!

Easy to hide, by placing iron-workers with acetylene torches and gas cylinders near them, and photograph them, as soon as possible in the days after 9/11, and throw these photos all over the net, resulting in nullification of evidence, without anyone in the FBI or any other agency, daring to say that they saw cut stumps all over the place, already on 9/11.
Except Kevin McPadden...
And these wondering officials realized they would go against a Moloch of financial criminals at the top of your utterly corrupt country.
And they all bowed...as the discreet civil servant cowards they were.
Only a few, like Kevin Ryan from Underwriters, and a few more stood up, and were directly sacked....

And that's STILL that huge elephant in the room, staring you straight in the eyes, with that eerie grim face...



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 01:55 PM
link   
a reply to: LaBTop

Blatant falsehoods.

The buckling is right there in the video record for the towers. And there is vertical buckled columns in the shap of U’s from overloading.

What should the bucking look like? Bent steel? Which was present in the rubble.

Than after the initial buckling, the main failures were sheared or stretched floor columns and broken welds.

For WTC 7, thermal stress lead to broken floor connections and bolting. The columns at WTC 7 buckled from loss of lateral support. Again, there was bent and deformed steel at WTC7.

And there was no identity marks on the columns of WTC 7. Is that false? How would you even identify the steel like the marked columns from the towers?

Sad to see your arguments descend into truth movement lies, and the evidence of buckling right there in the video record.



Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
app.aws.org...


Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
files.aws.org...




edit on 14-10-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed

edit on 14-10-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 02:06 PM
link   
A reply to: wmd_2008

You had to desperately omit this very snippet at the first lines of your article link, to let the rest of your handpicked texts sound expertly solid.
Well, you failed :

MORE FROM: WTC TEN YEARS ON: EXPERTS ADMIT SLOW PROGRESS IN APPLYING THE LESSONS OF 9/11


You OS trusters get more and more desperate, evidenced by the level of insults in about every OS truster post nowadays.
For your info, it has been posted already long before, that I was the owner of multiple construction firms during 42 years of my much longer life. And thus I can, at least, equal your experience at any time. Don't get fooled by my Avatar...

BUCKLED core columns that underwent office fires heat exposure, like in the WTC1, 2 and 7 steel failure initiation phases means WARPED, PUSHED-IN, DEFORMED, all happening inside the same vertical plain that all CORE columns stood in on non-plane impacted floors, after being in hot office fires for maximum 30 minutes, which is the time all combustibles are consumed in office fires, after which these fires extinguish.
Thus not bent (side-wards), curved (out of line), etcetera. And NIST just proposed any amount of cut core columns, NOT to be seen in total or individually, in both plane impact holes. It's numbers are by far not definitive. It's simply said, a GUESS. Not even an educated one.

All your nitpicking aside (I'll address that WTC7 debris photo in the next post), this is the upper part of a HEATED CORE column top part, exposed to far longer and thus more extreme fire conditions, set in a fixed environment, fixed by 4 side beams and by a whole composite concrete on steel beds, floor area on top of those beams and around that CORE column.
Like in all three WTC towers; that photographed column top part clearly BUCKLED under the weight of the dead load of the building above, but the rest of that CORE column got held in place in its normal vertical plain by all its other strong horizontal components around it, that held it firmly in place :

files.abovetopsecret.com...



And under those floors in that picture were the same kind of trusses, but single ones, not pairs as in the Twin Towers. Which were not deformed at all. Why? Read the explanation by Prof. Bazant already given earlier on, some pages back.
Thus, when expanding and contracting floor trusses (which thus NOT sagged, says Prof. Bazant) were the hypothetical cause of that inward bowing (BENDING) effect on the perimeter columns, we see in videos from shortly before global collapses of a Twin Tower, you have to regard that in such a hypothetical scenario, those still straight trusses thus first had to expand about 55 inch +/- 6 inches (1.4 m (+/-0.15 m), while still being fairly straight (says Prof. Bazant), thus causing the perimeter walls first to bulge outwards for the same distances. Then, after cooling slowly down, after the fires eventually extinguished (which they didn't) these bulges should slowly disappear.

Which we don't see at all happening. The perimeter walls caved inwards, without any preliminary bulging outwards.
That 55 inch expansion is calculated for a fully in fire emerged beam. Which the video records shows exactly zero evidence for. We can't look into the few burning offices no deeper than about five meter max, by the way. The whole NIST theory for 3 towers is build on quicksand.

And the fact that not one US institution did preserve those most important steel parts from the on-fire floors, and even more important, from the initiation floors, says it all. It was and still is an ongoing whitewash operation, guided by the culprits themselves, the 9/11 Planners.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 02:08 PM
link   
a reply to: LaBTop

So? You have no actual proof of CD from the video, audible, or seismic record. There is no evidence of pressure waves with the force to cut steel columns. No evidence of splinter steel being ejected from explosives. No evidence of flashing and extreme heat of cutting charges acting on exterior columns. With no cutting or bulging in the building’s facade?

And somhow “they” got through streets clogged with rubble to dig at the cores of the towers with heavy equipment to get to the “evidence” under 11 or 29 floors of rubble to remove “evidence”. In two or three days after 9/11. From rubble you claimed was melting shoes.

Your a hack.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: LaBTop

Your little rants just make you seem desperate.

Good look with your truth movement lies nobody is buying anymore.



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: LaBTop

And you still have no evidence of planted charges at the WTC.

Still as of oct 14 2018


www.wtc7evaluation.org...

Dr. Leroy Hulsey gave the following update on March 27, 2018:

To all who have been following the University of Alaska Fairbanks study on the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7:

First, I would like to thank you for your interest in and support of the study.

We had planned to release our findings for public review early this year. However, research often takes unexpected turns, and the more complicated the problem, the more difficult it is to predict the completion date. We are still in the process of studying hypothetical collapse mechanisms and attempting to simulate the building’s failure. Our goal is to determine, with a high degree of confidence, the sequence of failures that may have caused the observed collapse and to rule out those mechanisms that could not have caused the observed collapse.

We will release our findings for public review when we are sure we fully understand the mechanisms that are likely to have caused the observed collapse and those that clearly did not occur and could not have caused the observed collapse. We expect to publish our findings later this year, but we will refrain from naming a completion date, given the unpredictability of the research process.

Again, we thank you for your interest in our study and we appreciate your patience as we strive to bring a truly scientific answer to the important question of how WTC 7 collapsed on September 11, 2001.

Dr. J. Leroy Hulsey

Chair, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering

University of Alaska Fairbanks





ine.uaf.edu...

Project Info
Lead Researcher(s)
J. Leroy Hulsey
Project Team
Dr. Feng Xiao, Post-doctoral Researcher
Zhili Quan, Ph.D. student
Project Dates
May 1, 2015 - April 30, 2018

Funding
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
Project Budget: $316,153


When is that study going to be released for public review as promised for April 2018.....



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by: neutronflux
A reply to: LaBTop

Blatant falsehoods.

The buckling is right there in the video record for the towers. And there is vertical buckled columns in the shap of U’s from overloading.

What should the bucking look like? Bent steel? Which was present in the rubble.

Than after the initial buckling, the main failures were sheared or stretched floor columns and broken welds.

For WTC 7, thermal stress lead to broken floor connections and bolting. The columns at WTC 7 buckled from loss of lateral support. Again, there was bent and deformed steel at WTC7.

And there was no identity marks on the columns of WTC 7. Is that false? How would you even identify the steel like the marked columns from the towers?

Sad to see your arguments descend into truth movement lies, and the evidence of buckling right there in the video record.

""Failure of Welded Floor Truss Connections from the Exterior Wall during Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers
app.aws.org...

Characterization of Submerged Arc Welds from the World Trade Center Towers: As- Deposited Welds and Failures Associated with Impact Damage of the Exterior Columns
files.aws.org... ""


When do the software developers here at ATS realize that you can't place quotes nor excerpts inside quotes ?
That's why any smart member should replace them with "" ""


Learn to discern between BUCKLING, see my above last post, and BENDING.
And learn to behave yourself, at last. Endless insults do not enforce your case.
And it surely doesn't affect me. Nor the brighter bunch of readers...

Buckling = deformation failure within the SAME vertical plain the original piece was in.
Bending = vectored deformation failure, out of the vertical plain the original piece was first in (or a part or parts of it).

And all your ongoing spouting of unrelated links to my posts, is worthless.

YOU did NOT post anything regarding steel that was originating from the collapse initiation floors. PERIOD.
Any steel from the following natural collapse by overwhelming dead loads suddenly in motion, after an initiation event, is not belonging in this initiation event discussion.
It's what every demolition firm strives after. Blow up, and then let nature's forces have a go at it.


And there was no identity marks on the columns of WTC 7. Is that false? How would you even identify the steel like the marked columns from the towers?


Pftttt.....
How do you think those steel inspectors at Cats Kill Island got that bright idea to identify those steel pieces? And wrote their own ID numbers then on them with wax or thick marker sticks.
Could it be that these steel pieces were impressed with ID numbers.....at the steel foundry / factory?
Which logical process any DnnnNnnn could have thought of himself.!
And that the WTC Towers their blueprints are filled to the top with these numbers? Ever thought of that?
It never came up to your mind that the steelworkers and engineers at the WTC building site would have had no chance whatsoever to puzzle out a load of freshly arrived steel, to find out where it belonged, without PROPER numbering on it, that indicated placement, as could be determined / read from their blueprints ???

Damn, long ago I could just sent a student like you out of my lecture theater for blatant neglecting of study materials.
Here, it costs a lot more patience. It's like talking to a Nnnnnnn Nnnnn, I should however feel some serious pity for.
That's why I still try to educate you.

You seem to be very reluctant to listen to much older and wiser persons?
I have a few good young friends who have it too, saying all the time that they're too dumb to understand it all, but in the mean time they're damn bright..some times! That is, when at last they take the time to listen once in a while, in between their endless monologues and rants.
The tiny problem is, they tire me off with that endless fast talking. Still, I consider them my bright young friends.
Because I always honor endurance and intrinsic wisdom, even when it only sometimes shines through.

Thus. Go first to Major_Tom's EXCELLENT website.
It's the BY FAR best encyclopedia for 9/11 OS-trusters, -neutrals, -doubters anywhere on the Net.!
It's in fact a damn good mixture of all these interests.
He's a very bright and strict evidence based Skeptic, on a quest for the 9/11 Real Truth.
I try to be like that, most of the time. But, Lord, what do some of you wear my patience off...
Use his Search function, or just look it up on this main page its left side, long subjects list :
www.sharpprintinginc.com...

Then go to his "The 9/11 Forum", and try at last to educate yourself on every 9/11 subject,
You can only use the Search there when you became a member (please don't, they'll grill you there), and that's why I give you your first clue :
Title : WTC1, 2 Inward Bowing and Collapse Initiation Models. By Major_Tom, the owner of that site and forum :
www.tapatalk.com...

Do the same in the WTC7 Final Report's 795 pages :
ws680.nist.gov...

And a further snippet of truth for your Brent Blanchard idolization tour you were once on :
911research.wtc7.net...



posted on Oct, 14 2018 @ 05:01 PM
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A reply to: neutronflux

Too damn childish to spend energy on.
Read the verbatim written out text link I posted several times now already from his 10th of September, 2018 radio interview, Mnnnn. End of the year, NnnnNnnn.

Playing dumb to try to Tease a member into a swearing spray and subsequent banning , is a serious forum-crime here.




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